FEOTM Reboot concern - split from the megathread topic

[tremault]

I'm concerned you guys are wasting your own time.
How can the results be legitimate if you don't provide an option for "have not seen any of them, I just want to see the results"?
I chose inightmares and wakeupkeo for the polls my own edits were in, but I have not seen their work.
Effectively, my poll choice is fraudulent, but I've been given no other recourse.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

I'm concerned you guys are wasting your own time.
How can the results be legitimate if you don't provide an option for "have not seen any of them, I just want to see the results"?
I chose inightmares and wakeupkeo for the polls my own edits were in, but I have not seen their work.
Effectively, my poll choice is fraudulent, but I've been given no other recourse.

Would you like us to remove your vote?

 

[The Scribbling Man]

I'm concerned you guys are wasting your own time.
How can the results be legitimate if you don't provide an option for "have not seen any of them, I just want to see the results"?
I chose inightmares and wakeupkeo for the polls my own edits were in, but I have not seen their work.
Effectively, my poll choice is fraudulent, but I've been given no other recourse.

Thank you, tremault. I have, as a matter of fact, spent a lot of time putting this together. So it's nice to know you think it's a waste of time and are happy to cast meaningless votes in favour of finding out whether or not your own work is winning.

 

[tremault]

Would you like us to remove your vote?

Sure, I don't mnd, and it's a reflection of my intent, so I'd be happy with that.
I'd wonder how many other people did the same thing though, so t doesn't resolve the issue.
I appreciate you having my back though.

 

[tremault]

Thank you, tremault. I have, as a matter of fact, spent a lot of time putting this together. So it's nice to know you think it's a waste of time and are happy to cast meaningless votes in favour of finding out whether or not your own work is winning.

a few of us have brought this issue to your attention previously.
I'm not trying to hurt you or cast shade. I'm genuinely concerned that trust in the site is being eroded, even when many of us are being very up front about issues.
I cast the vote I did because it was the only option I had. I'm a human, I want to see if my work is popular or not.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

Sure, I don't mnd, and it's a reflection of my intent, so I'd be happy with that.
I'd wonder how many other people did the same thing though, so t doesn't resolve the issue.

Will do.

I appreciate you having my back though.

I can't help but feel like this comment is meant devisively. I'm simply responding to what I felt was your personal request as you felt you voted disingenuously.

 

[tremault]

Will do.

I can't help but feel like this comment is meant devisively. I'm simply responding to what I felt was your personal request as you felt you voted disingenuously.

Sorry I gave you that impression, my thanks was genuine. you were helping me to remove my feeling of being fraudulent and I appreciate it.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

a few of us have brought this issue to your attention previously.
I'm not trying to hurt you or cast shade. I'm genuinely concerned that trust in the site is being eroded, even when many of us are being very up front about issues.

We also addressed it. A few users keep pointing things out they feel are wrong or in error. We take that into consideration, but that small group does not yet speak for the whole.

I cast the vote I did because it was the only option I had. I'm a human, I want to see if my work is popular or not.

You also have the option to patiently wait for the results.

 

[tremault]

We also addressed it. A few users keep pointing things out they feel is wrong or in error. We take that into consideration, but that small group does not yet speak for the whole.

You also have the option to patiently wait for the results.

Okay, I don't really understand the decision that was made, It's a little mystifying for me, but I accept what you're telling me.
In that case I'd like my edits to be removed from this contest please.
I can't resist the urge to watch progress in such polls but my emotions are conflicted, as I have no faith in the authenticity of the outcome. It makes me uncomfortable so I'd rather not be a part of it if possible.
Would that be possible? I appreciate your time and efforts.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

Okay, I don't really understand the decision that was made, It's a little mystifying for me, but I accept what you're telling me.
In that case I'd like my edits to be removed from this contest please.
I can't resist the urge to watch progress in such polls but my emotions are conflicted, as I have no faith in the authenticity of the outcome. It makes me uncomfortable so I'd rather not be a part of it if possible.
Would that be possible? I appreciate your time and efforts.

Will do. Also, please remember that this is a hobby. Any award is an award from peers who sit at their computers and deform art. We hope it doesn't have a huge impact on real lives of our members.

 

[MusicEd921]

I've really stayed out of this whole issue and just watched from afar, but I literally had the reaction above when reading about casting random votes just to see your own progress. What?????

I'm really not understanding why FEOTM has become such an issue. I haven't won a single one and that's fine. I just want to share my ideas and edits with anyone who is interested. I would love to win FEOTM, but not enough to cast random votes just to see my progress in the polls or any of the other nonsense that occurred.

The mods are spending an ungodly amount of time trying to fix things and it just keeps getting met with more random pushbacks. Just vote or don't. Be involved with FEOTM or just share your work and take a backseat when it's voting time.

This is getting ridiculous and I'm annoyed that the mods are trying to right a wrong in the best way they have decided and it's continually coming under scrutiny with outlandish feedback. Ughhhhhhhh!

 

[tremault]

If I do it, it means other people do it. I'm not casting judgement on human behaviours of other people. If you don't do that then fine. I'm sure there's things you do that might be perplexing to me, but I'm not going to judge you for it. I might try to understand it, but that doesn't stop it being a normal and expected human behaviour.
If you want to understand, then I'm happy to try to explain it. Maybe it's a component of my adhd. I feel the need to collect and analyse sets of information at times. It's just part of who I am.

Most importantly, I want to draw your attention to the part where I said I was concerned. I also made it clear I'm not attacking or throwing shade. I'm recognising a human behaviour and how it effects how this part of the site operation is perceived by a portion of the people who will visit.

I've never won feotm and don't particularly need to. I requested my edits be removed from the competition, which should be evidence enough of that.

Outlandish? Really?

 

[PanteraSteel]

I've really stayed out of this whole issue and just watched from afar, but I literally had the reaction above when reading about casting random votes just to see your own progress. What?????

I'm really not understanding why FEOTM has become such an issue. I haven't won a single one and that's fine. I just want to share my ideas and edits with anyone who is interested. I would love to win FEOTM, but not enough to cast random votes just to see my progress in the polls or any of the other nonsense that occurred.

The mods are spending an ungodly amount of time trying to fix things and it just keeps getting met with more random pushbacks. Just vote or don't. Be involved with FEOTM or just share your work and take a backseat when it's voting time.

This is getting ridiculous and I'm annoyed that the mods are trying to right a wrong in the best way they have decided and it's continually coming under scrutiny with outlandish feedback. Ughhhhhhhh!

I disagree. The whole situation (discussed in this thread) is an easy fix but that's not a discussion that is allowed. Every other poll on the internet found a way to deal with this exact issue.

It seems pretty obvious to me that @tremault is the only one treating this as a hobby not be taken deadly serious. People that have fun hobbies like this are naturally going to be interested in responses to their work. That's just the reality of the situation. Additionally if @tremault was trying to cause problems this very thread wouldn't exist. Looks to me like she's being ridiculed for being open and honest and actually TAKING THE TIME to express her concerns SPECIFICALLY so that the staff does NOT waste their time. Seems pretty nice and considerate to me even if I do disagree with voting just to see results, she surely won't be the last person to do it. This sure is a great way to discourage open and honest conversations and feedback going forward.

So now we have an approved fan editor that brought an obvious issue to the forefront belittled by staff as she's trying to help. Whether she successfully helped or not is a separate issue but clearly she is TRYING to help. I'm sure the next person that did the exact same thing to compromise the polls, won't mention it. Problem solved.

EATING ITSELF.

 

[Wakeupkeo]

I thought a possible "null vote" option was discussed as to allow people to enter a vote that wouldn't be counted, but would then allow the member to watch the race.

@The Scribbling Man and @DigModiFicaTion , could that still be an option?

 

[PanteraSteel]

I thought a possible "null vote" option was discussed as to allow people to enter a vote that wouldn't be counted, but would then allow the member to watch the race.

That still does nothing to deal with the issue of illegitimate winners.

Thankfully @tremault was honest and exposed the fact that there's still massive issues with the way the FEOTM polls are done. Not everyone will be honest, especially after seeing this thread. Frankly we're all lucky she spoke up. This confirms It's still a glorified popularity contest masquerading a legit award.

1. People will still vote for edits they haven't even seen
2. People will still vote just to see the results
3. Pointing out these obvious issues is still a headache for non staff.

 

[tremault]

1. People will still vote for edits they haven't even seen

I don't think there is any way to address this, or it would be exceedingly difficult.
My concern was that it's inevitable that this will happen currently, rather than people actually choosing to.

 

[PanteraSteel]

I understand @tremault .

I disagree that there is no good way to address this.

 

[lapis molari]

@tremault , looks to me like you're conflating two issues:

- There was vote rigging in several FEOTM polls, depriving rightful winners of the recognition. Those are now being rerun as best as practicable.
This is an FE problem we're trying to rectify.

- Interim poll results are invisible until you vote, only final poll results are visible to everyone. Your solution is to "just" cast a vote so you can see the voting progress while the poll runs.
This is a problem of your impatience. I don't know that it is within FE's powers to fix that.

 

[bionicbob]

Not certain I am understanding the concern here?

Are you asking the Forum to police members’ lack of will power?

What difference does knowing how your fan edit is doing in Real Time or in 30 Days? As you are not allowed to solicit votes to alter the outcome. And if one NEEDS to see IMMEDIATELY how their edit doing to achieve some sense of closure/empowerment/self-worth or whatever, that is not the responsibility of the Forum.

If one wants to know so badly how their fan edit or someone else’s is doing, the solution is so simple: watch another fan edit or two in the running and vote for it.

I personally believe the voting process should be kept anonymous until one’s vote is cast or the polls closed. I think showing a running real time tally could influence undecided votes in questionable ways.

Is the system imperfect. Yep.
Are there dishonest people out who misuse the system? Sadly yes.

But I believe most people are good and the current system succeeds more than it fails.

 

[tremault]

I'm not sure why some of us think this is so difficult, complicated or impossible. It's been said a number of times; null vote.
results cannot be seen until vote is cast. Votes cannot be changed.
I added a poll to this topic to demonstrate.