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Editing something in public domain

MusicEd921

MusicEd921

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Kind of a random question..... What if someone were to edit a film that is in public domain, would it matter if anyone owned a copy in order to view the edit?

I'm not necessarily planning anything, it just kind of occurred to me when ordering a 1940's serial that I know is in public domain.

One would assume that if no one technically owns it, it should be free reign for anyone to view and edit, right?
 
musiced921 said:
Kind of a random question..... What if someone were to edit a film that is in public domain, would it matter if anyone owned a copy in order to view the edit?

I'm not necessarily planning anything, it just kind of occurred to me when ordering a 1940's serial that I know is in public domain.

One would assume that if no one technically owns it, it should be free reign for anyone to view and edit, right?
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If the entire project contains public domain material, then ownership is a non-issue. Anyone would be able to view or edit it.
 
Well, I'm not a connaisseur in rights or anything but let's say an old movie enters the public domain. A DVD/Bluray production compagny takes some old prints of it (given by the original movie compagny who made the movie, or simply by founding an old print) and makes a new restoration and sell the DVD/Bluray. Then, a faneditor is using this DVD/Bluray to make a fanedit... The movie is in public domain, all right, but the product used by the faneditor is still a DVD/Bluray made by that compagny with an added value (the restoration). My question is: what is in public domain concerning a movie? The original prints of the movie? Is a DVD/Bluray restoration can still be called "public domain" or is it a new copyrighted product (of a movie in public domain)?
 
TMBTM said:
Well, I'm not a connaisseur in rights or anything but let's say an old movie enters the public domain. A DVD/Bluray production compagny takes some old prints of it (given by the original movie compagny who made the movie, or simply by founding an old print) and makes a new restoration and sell the DVD/Bluray. Then, a faneditor is using this DVD/Bluray to make a fanedit... The movie is in public domain, all right, but the product used by the faneditor is still a DVD/Bluray made by that compagny with an added value (the restoration). My question is: what is in public domain concerning a movie? The original prints of the movie? Is a DVD/Bluray restoration can still be called "public domain" or is it a new copyrighted product (of a movie in public domain)?
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That company has absolutely no rights to the film. Their restoration work is essentially a gamble. The hope is that they will make money off of it because they have made attempts to clean it up, but they do not own it. Anyone can edit, or reproduce this work. Because of this, you will find very few examples where a production company has gone to extensive efforts to clean up and remaster a public domain work. Most of them are just shitty transfers slapped on a DVD - a way for the company to try to make a quick buck.
 
Throw makes good points. The entire point of the Own the Source Rule is to respect the copyright holders. The DVD companies don't own the copyright so there is no copyright infringement.
 
Throwgncpr is right, if I'm not mistaken. A restoration of a public domain film is basically a hope that people will buy that instead of the shitty DVD in the bargain bin.

Often, however, such discs will come with copyrighted supplemental material (say a documentary on the process). This will be copyrighted, and thus it will still be illegal to pirate the entirety of the disc (as a DVD-R) and share it online (just how illegal that act is of course open to debate, but for the sake of this argument, let's say it is). If it's only the film, though, it should be legal to do whatever with it, including sharing it on TPB and definitely sharing a modified version on fanedit.org. Possibly even reselling it (if people are stupid enough to pay for it), although I'm not sure about that.

Hypothetical conundrum: deleted scenes for public domain movies... would they be copyrighted? They're extremely rare for old movies, but this thread made me wonder.
 
good points, theslime. To my knowledge, deleted scenes are considered part of the same work, and would be covered under the public domain license. However, as you indicated, a documentary would not be covered as it is unique intellectual property.

One has to take care with sharing these DVDs produced from public domain material - If there are any sort of menus or additional features, they would be covered under copyright law. Bottom line is, the original film, and its scenes are public domain.

Also, FE will never sell DVDs, regardless if they feature works from public domain.
 
An interesting question. I seem to recall that colorized versions of public domain movies can be copyrighted, but straight-up restorations, I dunno. And for silent movies, of course, new recordings of even public domain scores can be copyrighted as brand-new material.
 
Gaith said:
An interesting question. I seem to recall that colorized versions of public domain movies can be copyrighted, but straight-up restorations, I dunno. And for silent movies, of course, new recordings of even public domain scores can be copyrighted as brand-new material.
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I'm not sure about colorized versions (good question), but as far as restorations - NO, still public domain. If they are creating new effects and scenes, then those would be covered under copyright law, but cleaning up a print, no. New recordings, new score, etc are all covered under copyright.
 
Copyrights are a confusing, pain in the ass mess it seems. Damn...
 
g1orkatsos said:
Copyrights are a confusing, pain in the ass mess it seems. Damn...
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they can be yes. As a general rule of thumb, you can boil it down very simply:

anything new (not just cleaner or prettier, but NEW): No - public domain. YES - new copyright

new things include - new music, new effects, new scenes, documentaries about old things, etc. Try this analogy: There is a public park. It's public, so the citizens have free access to it. Just because someone goes in and sweeps the sidewalks and prunes the hedges, doesn't mean they own it, or can charge admission to it. Someone can take potted plants and set up, or sculptures, and sure they own them, but they don't own the rest of the park.

The colorization thing is tricky though, and I'm not sure about that.
 
The reason I started this thread was because at some point there is an old serial or 2 I'd like to cut down to movie length. Some of which I'd like to add different music to. Now let's say I'm adding classical music to it..... How does that effect the overall legality of it?
 
musiced921 said:
The reason I started this thread was because at some point there is an old serial or 2 I'd like to cut down to movie length. Some of which I'd like to add different music to. Now let's say I'm adding classical music to it..... How does that effect the overall legality of it?
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The golden rule of FE is whatever is used, the viewer must legally own a copy. If the movies are under public domain, then no need for the viewer to purchase. If the music you are using is still under copyright, then the viewer must own a copy of that. If it is under public domain, no worries. Note, a lot of classical compositions are in the public domain, but performances of such may not be.
 
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