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Dollhouse: Extinction
- Thread starter juice4z0
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Neglify
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QuickCut said:
I don't have time to look at everything....
Dumb Neg.
My opinion, since this is about the quality of the edit, it's ok to be here. If it goes into a discussion of VLC and codecs and whatnot, yeah, tech forum it is.
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TomH1138
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Sorry, I didn't think this was going to clog up so much of the thread! I thought it would be one or two responses, but it didn't work out that way. Anyway, now I've determined that the problem is not the original file, which is the only reason I brought it up here.
Soooooo, it's time for a review of Dollhouse: Extinction. (It's overall positive, so you can take a deep breath, Juice.)
I didn't re-watch either of the "Epitaphs" before watching this, so it was often hard for me to tell which flashbacks had been subsituted from the originals and which hadn't. But that's a good thing that I had a hard time telling. In terms of the editing, the transitions were flawless. (I also didn't look at a cutlist, preferring to go in "fresh.")
The opening is perfect, absolutely brilliant. Using the news footage from "Man of the House" was the perfect way to set the story up. In fact, I wish the actual first aired episode was as well set up as this.
Unfortunately, immediately after that, we're plunged into Mad Max World, and there's really nothing that Juice or anybody else could do about that. My thought when watching it was, "Would somebody who had never seen Dollhouse before be able to know what's going on?" With the opening news footage, yes, absolutely. With the very next section, I don't think so, but that's kind of inherent in what the "Epitaphs" are. The audience is just kind of thrown into the middle of things, with characters making reference to "dumb shows" and the like without the viewer having any clear idea of what these terms mean.
I know what the terms mean because I've seen the rest of the episode, as well as the rest of the series. But I don't think this edit is able to make it clearer to the audience watching for the first time, although (again) in fairness, there probably is no way to make these scenes more comprehensible.
The audience doesn't know what's going on or why until Topher's explanation 40 minutes into the program, but pulling that scene out and sticking it at the beginning wouldn't make any sense either. As far as I can tell, Juice did the best he could with the material he had to work with.
There were a few scenes that I did recognize from Season 2 in "Epitaph One" (but, as I said, I can't remember what they replaced). The scenes seemed well chosen. The clips from "Belonging" nicely set up the relationship between Priya and Anthony, which comes into greater play in "Ep. Two." (The kept clip from "Ep. One" with Priya's tattoo also helps to inform the proceedings.) The clip from "The Left Hand" (I think) with Summer Glau's character Bennett is also a nice choice, since it helps to explain how Echo wound up in the Dollhouse, and it sets up the later appearance of Bennett on Topher's video.
(Topher kissing the screen might be seen as a slight reference to his extremely brief relationship with Bennett, which doesn't get mentioned elsewhere in the edit. But I don't think further explanation is needed, because when Summer Glau is on the screen, I think about kissing it myself.) ;-)
I was a bit surprised that the song "Remains" had been taken out of the end of Ep. One, because I love that song so much. But then, the song is really intended for the end of an episode, and this was now only halftime, so the change made sense.
The absence of two major characters from the series - Boyd and Mellie/November - was also a little surprising. (Technically, November gets one mention and her photo is seen.) But then their stories don't really figure into the "Epitaphs," so again I could see why there wasn't further mention.
In "Ep. Two," less seemed to be changed than in "One" (since it has no flashbacks, save an added one), although that might simply be due to Juice's editing skills that I noticed less.
It was kind of strange to see Alpha torturing Ballard without getting to see how the rest of the scene turned out, but the scene did 1) establish who Alpha was, so that we sense the dramatic irony when he shows up normal; 2) establish how much Ballard really did love Echo; 3) show Ballard in the chair, so that it made sense later on when normal Alpha was able to give a copy of Ballard to Echo.
I still don't care for the resolution of Alpha's character - If he was a psychotic murderer before becoming a Doll, why would he want to be wiped and "reset"? Echo says that he's "evolved," but Alpha doesn't seem to think so, which means that his decision makes no sense from his perspective. Still, I can see Juice wanting to account for Alpha's absence at the end of the episode, so I get it.
I also don't like the notion that things are significantly happier for Echo now that she has a copy of Ballard in her head. It's nice that she has the memories, but the real Ballard is still out there on the streets, dead. She's still technically alone. If there's one thing that the show was about, it's that the imprints were just an illusion; therefore, Ballard-in-Echo's-head is really just an illusion, too.
However, I don't see any another way to end the episode, either. There isn't an alternate ending that Juice could have used if he wanted to, and in some sense it's a happy ending. So I think I get it.
Dollhouse was a fascinating but flawed show; unlike other Joss Whedon shows, it fired on all cylinders about half the time for me, and half the time it didn't. I loved "Epitaph One" the first time I saw it, but I intensely disliked "Epitaph Two." Juice has made a compelling edit where I now enjoy both episodes. He reminded me of why I loved the show at the times when I did in fact love it. I was absorbed in the edit from beginning to end.
I was originally only going to give this edit an 8, but thinking about it while I was writing this, I'm going to bump it up to a 9 instead. The editing is great, and the setups and payoffs created are flawless. My reservations are mostly with the source material. Maybe somebody else could have done better, but I don't know how. I wish I could have been involved throughout the creation of this cut to see if I could have offered suggestions that might have worked, but that's just speculation. I'm really satisfied with what I saw, and I'm probably going to watch it again sometime soon.
Soooooo, it's time for a review of Dollhouse: Extinction. (It's overall positive, so you can take a deep breath, Juice.)
I didn't re-watch either of the "Epitaphs" before watching this, so it was often hard for me to tell which flashbacks had been subsituted from the originals and which hadn't. But that's a good thing that I had a hard time telling. In terms of the editing, the transitions were flawless. (I also didn't look at a cutlist, preferring to go in "fresh.")
The opening is perfect, absolutely brilliant. Using the news footage from "Man of the House" was the perfect way to set the story up. In fact, I wish the actual first aired episode was as well set up as this.
Unfortunately, immediately after that, we're plunged into Mad Max World, and there's really nothing that Juice or anybody else could do about that. My thought when watching it was, "Would somebody who had never seen Dollhouse before be able to know what's going on?" With the opening news footage, yes, absolutely. With the very next section, I don't think so, but that's kind of inherent in what the "Epitaphs" are. The audience is just kind of thrown into the middle of things, with characters making reference to "dumb shows" and the like without the viewer having any clear idea of what these terms mean.
I know what the terms mean because I've seen the rest of the episode, as well as the rest of the series. But I don't think this edit is able to make it clearer to the audience watching for the first time, although (again) in fairness, there probably is no way to make these scenes more comprehensible.
The audience doesn't know what's going on or why until Topher's explanation 40 minutes into the program, but pulling that scene out and sticking it at the beginning wouldn't make any sense either. As far as I can tell, Juice did the best he could with the material he had to work with.
There were a few scenes that I did recognize from Season 2 in "Epitaph One" (but, as I said, I can't remember what they replaced). The scenes seemed well chosen. The clips from "Belonging" nicely set up the relationship between Priya and Anthony, which comes into greater play in "Ep. Two." (The kept clip from "Ep. One" with Priya's tattoo also helps to inform the proceedings.) The clip from "The Left Hand" (I think) with Summer Glau's character Bennett is also a nice choice, since it helps to explain how Echo wound up in the Dollhouse, and it sets up the later appearance of Bennett on Topher's video.
(Topher kissing the screen might be seen as a slight reference to his extremely brief relationship with Bennett, which doesn't get mentioned elsewhere in the edit. But I don't think further explanation is needed, because when Summer Glau is on the screen, I think about kissing it myself.) ;-)
I was a bit surprised that the song "Remains" had been taken out of the end of Ep. One, because I love that song so much. But then, the song is really intended for the end of an episode, and this was now only halftime, so the change made sense.
The absence of two major characters from the series - Boyd and Mellie/November - was also a little surprising. (Technically, November gets one mention and her photo is seen.) But then their stories don't really figure into the "Epitaphs," so again I could see why there wasn't further mention.
In "Ep. Two," less seemed to be changed than in "One" (since it has no flashbacks, save an added one), although that might simply be due to Juice's editing skills that I noticed less.
It was kind of strange to see Alpha torturing Ballard without getting to see how the rest of the scene turned out, but the scene did 1) establish who Alpha was, so that we sense the dramatic irony when he shows up normal; 2) establish how much Ballard really did love Echo; 3) show Ballard in the chair, so that it made sense later on when normal Alpha was able to give a copy of Ballard to Echo.
I still don't care for the resolution of Alpha's character - If he was a psychotic murderer before becoming a Doll, why would he want to be wiped and "reset"? Echo says that he's "evolved," but Alpha doesn't seem to think so, which means that his decision makes no sense from his perspective. Still, I can see Juice wanting to account for Alpha's absence at the end of the episode, so I get it.
I also don't like the notion that things are significantly happier for Echo now that she has a copy of Ballard in her head. It's nice that she has the memories, but the real Ballard is still out there on the streets, dead. She's still technically alone. If there's one thing that the show was about, it's that the imprints were just an illusion; therefore, Ballard-in-Echo's-head is really just an illusion, too.
However, I don't see any another way to end the episode, either. There isn't an alternate ending that Juice could have used if he wanted to, and in some sense it's a happy ending. So I think I get it.
Dollhouse was a fascinating but flawed show; unlike other Joss Whedon shows, it fired on all cylinders about half the time for me, and half the time it didn't. I loved "Epitaph One" the first time I saw it, but I intensely disliked "Epitaph Two." Juice has made a compelling edit where I now enjoy both episodes. He reminded me of why I loved the show at the times when I did in fact love it. I was absorbed in the edit from beginning to end.
I was originally only going to give this edit an 8, but thinking about it while I was writing this, I'm going to bump it up to a 9 instead. The editing is great, and the setups and payoffs created are flawless. My reservations are mostly with the source material. Maybe somebody else could have done better, but I don't know how. I wish I could have been involved throughout the creation of this cut to see if I could have offered suggestions that might have worked, but that's just speculation. I'm really satisfied with what I saw, and I'm probably going to watch it again sometime soon.
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I'm interested in this, but I wanted to know: Is this exclusively a Season 2 fan edit? Do I have to have seen season 1 to get what's going on?
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Thanks for the fast response!
DriggyDriggs said:Thanks for the fast response!
What can i say you had good timing, you posted right before i checked out the forum.
As for the review all i have to say is wow and thanks. You pointed out alot of the main reasons i used the clips i did. As for the absence of Boyd. He was a character that due to the story arch at the end of season 2 was unable to be fit in. His story wouldn't have been able to be fleshed out. As for November she never played a key roll imo she was just a tool the dollhouse used to play with paul.
As for the song "remains" taking it out was a suggestion by yads. For the exact reasons you meantion. It was an ending song not a half time song. I actualy mixed two songs from donnie darko to set the ton with the new music.
But once again thank you for taking the time to do such a detailed review.
TomH1138
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juice4z0 said:
Well, I completely disagree with that.
She was in most of the episodes, including the first one, and she did a lot to move the story forward, of which messing with Paul was just one thing. But in terms of your edit, I agree that it was wise to leave her out. If you included everything that could be included, you'd have a 12-hour "edit"! juice4z0 said:
No problem! I'm going to go post the review on the site, too, edited a bit for spoilers.