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Black Panther

Zamros

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No forum thread, yet? Does no-one care?

iu



 

The Scribbling Man

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I don't care.

Oh... Wait. That's not what you want to hear, was it? :p
 

DigModiFicaTion

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To be honest no. Not a fan of the MCU.
 

Canon Editor

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Actually… yes!!  One Marvel Studios film I’m actually quite excited about after having enjoyed “Spider-Man: Homecoming”.  I have low expectations but who knows!
 

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As an MCU fan, who at least likes every single movie (plus Agent Carter the series and Agents of SHIELD), yeah, I'm excited. As much as I love the series' heroes, it's about time we get a not-white, not-American protagonist. Also, given that I know nothing of the character from the comics and have avoided all trailers, I know pretty much nothing about the movie except for what I've seen of T'Challa and the Tolkien White Guys (Serkis and Freeman) from Age of Ultron and Civil War. Should be fun. Afraid that's about all I've got to say about it for now, though. :p
 

Zamros

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I'm excited, purely on the basis of its director in Ryan Coogler. Fruitvale station was an incredibly moving piece of cinema and Creed might be the best Rocky film since the original.

That being said:

13pmi9.jpg
 

Zamros

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Just saw it today. I liked it. It's deffo in the top half of Marvel films, and is elevated substantially by *gasp* a villain with an actual motivation!

Chadwick Boseman, Michael B. Jordan, Andy Serkis and Lupita Nyongo were all great, with solid performances from the remainder of the cast.

The incredible production design was completely let down by lackluster CGI, which is a shame. Fans of the terrible green screen Norway in Thor have a lot in store.

Pacing-wise it felt strange. The first act felt like half of the movie, with a rushed second act and a pretty predictable third act.

Ryan Coogler's direction was very apparent, filming the best choreographed fight scenes in a Marvel film (Still doesn't hold a candle to Daredevil).

If the editing and vfx were tightened up this would be one of the best marvel films to date. I'd watch it again just for Serkis' Klaue
 

Masirimso17

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Highly enjoyed this. Around the 8-8.5 Marvel movies containing Doctor Strange, Iron Man 1 and Thor, in that order. I think Black Panther topped all of them.

I still noticed bad Green Screen effects that plagued Thor: Ragnarok, but it's not nearly as bad as that movie.

What pleasantly surprised me about this was the superbly done social commentary. Which also leads me to the villain, Killmonger. Everybody, after the 2017 improvements of Ego, Vulture, and even Hela but to a lesser extent, the Marvel Villain Curse is officially BROKEN! Killmonger is easily the best villain of the MCU since Loki, maybe even better.

The action sequences were great, with one chase scene in particular that was absolutely spectacular.

One would guess that these "origin" stories would get generic, predictable and boring after a while, which was some of the criticism towards Ant-Man and Doctor Strange, for basically being Iron Man 1 all over again. But the thing is, Marvel usually approaches these movies as character studies, and however similar they may be, they work great.

While Black Panther is far from perfect and is definitely not the most original movie ever made (@"Zamros" is correct in that it gets predictable with the classic superhero formula being used), the character development of T'Challa is unique and engaging, the story is fantastic and raises relevant social questions, and most of all, is a ton of fun.

Highly recommended. And as always, here's my current MCU list for context:

  1. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
  2. Captain America: Civil War
  3. Iron Man 3
  4. The Avengers
  5. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 1 & 2
  6. Black Panther
  7. Thor
  8. Iron Man
  9. Doctor Strange
  10. Thor: Ragnarok
  11. Avengers: Age of Ultron
  12. Captain America: The First Avenger
  13. Ant-Man
  14. The Incredible Hulk
  15. Thor: The Dark World
  16. Spider-Man: Homecoming
  17. Iron Man 2
 

bionicbob

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Watched this the other day, and while entertaining I would not say it is Marvel's BEST as some critics have hailed it.

I loved the world building.

I loved movie had an actual relevant and substantive message.

The cast was fantastic and yes Killmonger is easily Marvel Studios best developed villain to date.

Some of the CGI was really bad... the worst for me was the all important climax between T'Challa and Killmonger when they are falling/fighting and battling on the monorail.

But what really prevents this movie from being really great is the formulaic plot structure.  Storywise, for me there was not a single surprise or plot twist.  The screenplay  safely checked off all the boxes of the classic hero's journey 101.  Don't get me wrong, it is expertly executed, and as I said, it is entertaining, but I did not find it gripping or tension filled.  I give it a solid B rating.
 

Gaith

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Saw it for the second time today, and greatly enjoyed both. My first viewing was in Oakland, and while I usually hate any moviegoing distractions, it was tons of fun hearing some of the black audience members cheering, tsk-tsking, and generally vocally engaging with the characters. :D

Now, I agree with Bob that, in many ways, it's made of borrowed parts: thematic parallels with Thor 1+3, and an action climax that pairs Ant-Man's stop-the-weapons-exportation with Avatar's seemingly neutral allies to the rescue. What's more, the movie sets itself many tasks: introducing Wakanda pretty much out of the blue into an established cinematic universe, telling a compelling Wakanda story, telling a compelling T'Challa story despite him being a grown-ass man and wise/compassionate from the start (having already overcome some demons in Civil War), and laying the groundwork for Wakanda's tech changing the MCU world as we know it, as well as giving the groundlings (myself included) their requisite dose of action. In all these challenges, I think it succeeds with high marks across the board.

I can nitpick a few small things...

- The effortless defeat of the convoy soldiers in Nigeria could have been skipped over with a few quick cuts.
- I would have liked a note of concern for civilian safety during the car chase, which, again, was fairly effortless and could have been trimmed.
- Why was Ross not kept sedated while being healed? I'm glad he wasn't, as he ended up being a great character who recalled Phil Coulson's early, relatively carefree pre-TAHITI persona, but even after Klaue told him the truth about Wakanda, it seemed an odd oversight. 
- When it was being argued that the world was changing, and getting smaller, it seems to me Okoye should have mentioned the outside world/The Avengers' tech catching up with Wakanda, as we've already seen other heroes hold their own against T'Challa. I totally respect the distance between this movie and the rest of the films, but this seemed like one moment where a brief reference would have not only been appropriate but improved the scene, as well.
- The final fistfight between T'Challa and Killmonger was kinda meh.
- With 2-3 minutes saved by trimming the action sequences, I would have appreciated a funeral/medical scene for the casualties of the battle at the end, as well as some view of ordinary non-combatant Wakandans besides extras in the coronation scene and that one street.
- Speaking of which, It was a bit lame to have T'Challa and Nakia walk and talk the same city street for both their conversations.

... But these are minor points. For my grade, I'll go with a B+. One of the better MCU films, but not in my personal top five, as I prefer the quippier, more banter-heavy heroes and flicks. That said, I am very interested to see where the series (and indeed MCU) goes from here. Moreover, it goes without saying that the movie's astonishing cultural acclamation and box-office success is wonderful for black and minority audiences at home and abroad. The MCU should absolutely have become more diverse before this 18th film was released (there's zero reason Peter Quill, Scott Lang or Doctor Strange all needed to be white American males), but making such a big splash within the MCU and in the real-world is a welcome consolation.

And I definitely give the movie points for, in the first MCU Wakanda story, already blowing up the cozy magical isolationism that has (to my knowledge) never even been debated in J.K. Rowling's Wizarding World. Seriously, Hermione is outspokenly political and Muggle-born and raised, but never once even discusses the idea of openly engaging with the non-magical world? Lame!

Finally, if Agents of SHIELD gets a sixth season (a big if), it'd be awesome to see Coulson and Co. dealing with Wakanda-related scenarios...

 

lapis molari

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A suave man walks into a casino with two beautiful women on a mission to catch the bad guy. A fight ensues in which our hero is helped by his CIA friend, who was there to do a deal with the same bad guy. Everyone who was *not* thinking of James Bond during this scene, raise your hand. No one? Right. ;)

I love the Bond-like approach. It sets up Black Panther more logically and competently for adventures in the MCU that don't involve superhero-only stuff.
Black Panther footage from Coogler's Scene-Takedown for Vanity Fair.
Password: fanedit.org
 

DigModiFicaTion

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So I watched some youtube video that combined all of the released trailer and clip footage and I'm kind of glad I didn't see this in the theater. The cgi looked pretty atrocious and off to me from what I saw. I'll check this out from the library in a year or two probably. This has been a constant complaint of mine about the MCU.
 

Zamros

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It's weird. The MCU film with the best looking Iron Man suit was... Iron Man (2008)

The overall CG never got better than the first Avengers film, after that it just became a cartoon (Which was okay for Guardians/Thor)
 

Masirimso17

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Zamros said:
It's weird. The MCU film with the best looking Iron Man suit was... Iron Man (2008)

The overall CG never got better than the first Avengers film, after that it just became a cartoon (Which was okay for Guardians/Thor)

I’d say the CGI in Iron Man 3, Thor 2, Doctor Strange and both Guardians films are pretty darn great (three of which was nominated for a VFX Oscar)
 

Problem Eliminator

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I was disappointed by how much of Black Panther was generated by a computer. Landscapes, skies, buildings, etc. Loses some of the magic to know the actors are actually surrounded by green screen.
 

Gaith

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Wow, some folks are really particular about their CGI. Apart from maybe one or two brief animal moments, it never jabbed at my suspension of disbelief, nor did I at all mind or even notice the Norway field in Ragnarok. Maybe I'm easily pleased, and am a poor judge of CGI, or maybe I have a superior skill of getting into the story, and therefore not caring. (I sometimes think similar things about acting performances - is s/he giving a bad performance, or a good performance of someone who happens to not be particularly expressive? Few people in real life are as interesting to watch as Meryl Streep or Daniel Day-Lewis, after all. Lots of people are just there.)

The Last Starfighter has glaringly bad CGI, as does the climax of Species, but those days are objectively long gone. And it's not my place to tell anyone their reaction to modern effects are wrong... I'm just glad my enjoyment of flicks aren't so dependent on such technical factors. :p
 

Masirimso17

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Gaith said:
Wow, some folks are really particular about their CGI. Apart from maybe one or two brief animal moments, it never jabbed at my suspension of disbelief, nor did I at all mind or even notice the Norway field in Ragnarok. Maybe I'm easily pleased, and am a poor judge of CGI, or maybe I have a superior skill of getting into the story, and therefore not caring. (I sometimes think similar things about acting performances - is s/he giving a bad performance, or a good performance of someone who happens to not be particularly expressive? Few people in real life are as interesting to watch as Meryl Streep or Daniel Day-Lewis, after all. Lots of people are just there.)

The Last Starfighter has glaringly bad CGI, as does the climax of Species, but those days are objectively long gone. And it's not my place to tell anyone their reaction to modern effects are wrong... I'm just glad my enjoyment of flicks aren't so dependent on such technical factors. :p

Yeah of course the CGI in the MCU is a minor complaint, they're not glaringly bad and besides the story and characters are almost always good or great. Batman v Superman had amazing CGI but the movie's dogshit.
 

ssj

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bionicbob said:
But what really prevents this movie from being really great is the formulaic plot structure.  Storywise, for me there was not a single surprise or plot twist.  The screenplay safely checked off all the boxes of the classic hero's journey 101.  Don't get me wrong, it is expertly executed, and as I said, it is entertaining, but I did not find it gripping or tension filled.  I give it a solid B rating.

i feel the same way. wanted to lurvv it but merely liked it. had a ton of great actors and sets and costumes, but the whole combo never gelled for me, probably due to the script—in addition to the plot, much of the dialogue was stiff and cliche.
 

DigModiFicaTion

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I just watched this for the first time since Chadwick Boseman's passing. The experience was very emotionally different. I truly believe Chadwick Boseman was the Black Panther in that he embodied all of the qualities and ideals of his character. It's hard to wrap my head around a sequel being able to stand without him. My hope is that the sequel will bring back Michael B Jordan as the Black Panther. Here's why. He has a commanding presence and conviction in his acting that can approach the power you felt in T'Challa when he spoke. How would they do this? Now when I say bring him back, I don't mean bring back Killmonger, I mean bring back N'Jadaka. Bring us the N'Jadaka that was brought home or raised in Wakanda alongside T'Challa from the multiverse. A N'Jadaka who loves his king and his country who must leave both to save his country in our universe. The T'Challa we see from Endgame could be explained as being the T'Challa from the multiverse who gives the calling of King to N'Jadaka. N'Jadaka's character would have the conviction of a king and it would create an emotional and poignant dialogue on the psychology surrounding nature vs nurture and epigenetics in a way that would force us in this world to address all of Killmonger's creeds that we can't help but understand and the idea of investing in our youth and cultures in such a way as to build up the best possible futures for all. I am ok with Shuri becoming the Black Panther, but I feel the soul of what the Black Panther is would be better achieved in this proposed narrative.

Chadwick Boseman's speech in the credits scene could not be more relevant. Rest with the ancestors King and know you changed the hearts of those that would hear and feel.
 
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