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Before the Dark Times

DigModiFicaTion said:
Congrats LieutenantDan! Welcome to the after-party!
New Year Classic Reaction GIF
Click to expand...
Thank you mate
 
I just want to post here what a fantastic experience it has been to support @LieutenantDan in applying a final layer of polish to what was a 99.75% completed edit.

Together with @ArtisDead, we have watched this several dozen times, and the micro observations made to DAN, have not only been expertly applied, but DAN continued to refine and polish several elements even further achieving even greater heights.

I can't and wont spoil what his final pieces of magic were which he brough into the fold, save to say that their use in this edit (which I believe is a FIRST), is a game changer.

Many casual viewers won't notice the elements I am referring to, though a few SW geeks just may.

Either way, I would like to thank DAN for his open mind, hard work and talent...more so in bringing to us a project which frankly, was near as damn it, good to go when we first viewed it.
BRAVO!
 
Thank you @Wraith that is high praise! And thank you to @ArtisDead as well for putting up with me. I look forward to the hard core fans letting me know what they think. It’s definitely been a labor of love that I am ken to share.
 
I was finally able to sit down and watch this edit, and I'm happy to say I thoroughly enjoyed it. This is the most creative and perhaps most effective way I've seen a fan edit tackle the prequels and @LieutenantDan has succeeded in his ambitious goals! Only Chapter 1 I felt like didn't work for me and I've explained them below.

For Chapter 1:
  • The beginning just throws you into the story with zero context and has no hook to bring audiences to care. Perhaps an opening text (a la Solo A Star Wars Story) could remedy this? That could also help with starting with the senate scene, which I feel is a stronger start with better exposition than the scene in Palpatine’s office. (Although you see more of Palpatine’s manipulation there.)
  • The cut from “what options have we” (around 01:50) to a wider angle of the same subject is jarring.
  • It isn’t very interesting to hear about a crisis in the senate and not see it at all. To be fair, this is a problem with the original film as well, but by cutting all of it I feel like it is amplified a bit. Maybe you could show some of the Naboo invasion, like the Neomoidians threatening Sio Bibble? A good recommendation to help accomplish this is looking at the Clone Wars episode Supply Lines, which does a similar thing and serves as a prequel to the liberation of Ryloth arc.
  • The wipe transition after “a stronger chancellor” is super quick and jarring. Also you see some of Jar Jar’s hands when you cut to Padme and it’s distracting (maybe you can zoom in a bit to crop him out until Padme turns? Then he just looks like her bodyguard or something when the camera reveals him and it works).
  • In the middle of Padme and Palpatine’s conversation in his office, we see a few shots of the celebration in Naboo. I feel like this was intentional but it feels much more like a mistake and didn’t fit the nature of the conversation either. On that note, don’t feel like the resolution works either, I would prefer a more sinister feel that Palpatine has succeeded in his manipulation.
For much of these reasons Chapter I didn’t really work for me. However, I absolutely LOVED every other chapter--I honestly wish the first chapter was more like them somehow.

Further notes:
  • In Chapter 3, I feel like you could cut to Anakin in the balcony smoother (or if you want it to be sudden you can use a unique sound effect, rather than it sounding like the music from the previous shot bled through)
  • After Yoda’s remark about letting go, cutting back to Shmi just dead already might create a comedic effect that you hadn’t intended, so I’d recommend showing Shmi slowly dying and falling backwards.
  • In Chapter 4, cutting from Dooku back to another shot of Dooku on the table jars you similar to my first point with Padme on the couch in Chapter 1.
  • In Chapter 5, again, going from “Master Windu!” to “I must say you’re here sooner than I expected” is jarring to cut to the same subject.
  • In Chapter 6, when you cut back and forth from Anakin slaying the Federation to Obi-Wan and Padme, the editing mostly works, but one or two times the music fades out, then immediately cuts back in when you cut back to the Federation. I recommend still having the music play in the background, albeit softly, before fading back in to the Federation slaughter as that would make a better edited montage imho.
  • Finally in Chapter 6, while I loved the idea of cutting back and forth from Anakin and Obi-Wan to Order 66, the changes in music were a little odd and frankly unprofessional for an edit such as this. However I'm not sure how I would remedy that considering the rythym of those sequences are vastly different.
I have been thinking of a way to squeeze in some of the prequels in between Episodes V and VI a la Machete Order for a first timer--I always felt Revenge of the Sith immediately before Return of the Jedi strengthens that film as you fear more for Luke's potential fall to the dark side--but recently I felt like squeezing in 2/3s of a trilogy just for that feels disjointed and does a disservice to the saga. But this edit is the perfect length and the (almost) perfect thing before Return of the Jedi to squeeze in, and you can still get away with showing the rest of the prequels later whenever they'd like as a sort of expanded edition and precursor to The Clone Wars show.

Furthermore, the vignette style of presenting the Prequels actually benefitted the storytelling in a way I hadn't expected--you see, as everyone knows, the Prequels are not very well known for its subtlety. Cutting it down to this length under NORMAL circumstances, I would say you'd be missing in on a lot of the subtleties and the intricacies of the story. However considering that the Prequels do NOT have those, or at least ultimately fails to synthesize them meaningfully, the "broad stroaks" approach actually strengthens Anakin's fall to the dark side, as a lot of things are still left to the imagination (similar to how Tales of the Jedi handles Dooku's betrayal and turn to the dark side.)

The reason I say this is because in the actual Prequels and most Prequel edits, Anakin's arc is still linear and adds a lot of characterization and exposition--Anakin's fear of loss, Obi-Wan's failure to teach what Anakin actually needs, his anger and hate sourced from his troubled past and mistreatment (first from the slave owners, then from the Jedi), and most importantly, his power hungry nature (which ironically is the thing that the Prequels neglected THE MOST). The films try to keep Anakin optimistic and idealistic until the last second so much that, despite all the setup that the films attempt to do, you never believe that Anakin would destroy everything in his path--especially just to save his wife. I understand that his fear of loss led to his wish to be more powerful, to save the ones he loves, but only saying it does not make it believeable. That's just bad writing. We need to see that his initial noble wish turns to greed, and the films largely gloss over that.

The absolute GENIUS of this edit, then, is to reframe everything so that the vignettes make it feel like they're all happening at a similar pace, unlike the original film where the second act of ROTS has everything so rushed. Now, the "broad strokes" approach gives us the same insights that the prequels give--that his fear of loss lead to greed--however it is edited in a far more elegant and natural way. When the distraction of Padme's imminent death is gone, now it seems like he is purely power hungry. We still see him try to hold on to his initial ideals, but we also saw that, leading to his ultimate betrayal, Anakin was itching to get a taste of the dark side, because of the way that @LieutenantDan brilliantly created a montage using his few-and-far-between power hungry moments that the films never succeeded in convincing the audience. So when Anakin said (far more confidently this time) that he can overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy, for the first time when watching these frickin' movies, I actually believed him. This is the highest praise that a Prequel editor can get-- @LieutenantDan actually made the Prequels work.

Now above, I said "almost perfect" because one thing I wish all Prequel edits kept, regardless of how the film itself executes it, is Anakin saying "You underestimate my power" because it ties into Luke saying the very same thing in Return of the Jedi to Jabba, adding to many of the things that makes the audience fear that Luke actually might follow in his father's footsteps.

On a personal note, one line I wish you kept was "So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause." Which is my favorite line in all of Star Wars. Furthermore, I missed some things such as Qui-Gon Jinn's importance to Anakin and how different he was to the rest of the Jedi, including Obi-Wan, as he is the only one who understood that attachments and emotion are not dangerous in and of themselves. On the other hand I realize that this is not what the edit is about and that can always be retained in longer edits of the Prequels.

So thank you, Lieutenant Dan, for this quite marvelous edit you've done. I recommend everyone in the community who have felt wronged by the Prequels to give this a shot. Thumbs way up!
 
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Yo Masi!
Just echoing @ArtisDead ’s comments and thanking you for a detailed and forensic comment for what we both think is an astonishing accomplishment by Dan.

I have to say I agree with your point regarding the abrupt start, but at the same time, Dan is delivering an almost anti-Star Wars edit in its structure, I think your proposal for chapter 1 is interesting, but my fear is it would take the edits into a more traditional Star Wars like narrative.

I’m certain Dan will reflect on the many micro and macro points that you make, which are all hugely insightful with a level of detail seldom seen in anyone’s comments these days, but hey, you’re a fan editor, too , so what else could one expect.

As first time reviewer/approvers, there is always a balance between supporting the vision and suggesting changes so it’s great to have you pitching.

iPhone one look forward to future output from Dan and any tweaks he might make prior to submission or more likely for a version to in the future if that is likely.

I know where I’m going when I get stuck on one of my narrative restructurings!
 
I couldn't have found the words to articulate that sentiment so succintly. Thank you, @Wraith for essentially speaking for both of us. 😁

And...

iPhone one also look forward to future output from Dan and any tweaks he might make prior to submission or more likely for a version to in the future if that is likely.

🤣😂
 
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As others have noted, this seems like an interesting, and ambitious project. It's always good to see a different perspective on a film series!
 
Masirimso17 said:
I was finally able to sit down and watch this edit, and I'm happy to say I thoroughly enjoyed it. This is the most creative and perhaps most effective way I've seen a fan edit tackle the prequels and @LieutenantDan has succeeded in his ambitious goals! Only Chapter 1 I felt like didn't work for me and I've explained them below.

For Chapter 1:
  • The beginning just throws you into the story with zero context and has no hook to bring audiences to care. Perhaps an opening text (a la Solo A Star Wars Story) could remedy this? That could also help with starting with the senate scene, which I feel is a stronger start with better exposition than the scene in Palpatine’s office. (Although you see more of Palpatine’s manipulation there.)
  • The cut from “what options have we” (around 01:50) to a wider angle of the same subject is jarring.
  • It isn’t very interesting to hear about a crisis in the senate and not see it at all. To be fair, this is a problem with the original film as well, but by cutting all of it I feel like it is amplified a bit. Maybe you could show some of the Naboo invasion, like the Neomoidians threatening Sio Bibble? A good recommendation to help accomplish this is looking at the Clone Wars episode Supply Lines, which does a similar thing and serves as a prequel to the liberation of Ryloth arc.
  • The wipe transition after “a stronger chancellor” is super quick and jarring. Also you see some of Jar Jar’s hands when you cut to Padme and it’s distracting (maybe you can zoom in a bit to crop him out until Padme turns? Then he just looks like her bodyguard or something when the camera reveals him and it works).
  • In the middle of Padme and Palpatine’s conversation in his office, we see a few shots of the celebration in Naboo. I feel like this was intentional but it feels much more like a mistake and didn’t fit the nature of the conversation either. On that note, don’t feel like the resolution works either, I would prefer a more sinister feel that Palpatine has succeeded in his manipulation.
For much of these reasons Chapter I didn’t really work for me. However, I absolutely LOVED every other chapter--I honestly wish the first chapter was more like them somehow.

Further notes:
  • In Chapter 3, I feel like you could cut to Anakin in the balcony smoother (or if you want it to be sudden you can use a unique sound effect, rather than it sounding like the music from the previous shot bled through)
  • After Yoda’s remark about letting go, cutting back to Shmi just dead already might create a comedic effect that you hadn’t intended, so I’d recommend showing Shmi slowly dying and falling backwards.
  • In Chapter 4, cutting from Dooku back to another shot of Dooku on the table jars you similar to my first point with Padme on the couch in Chapter 1.
  • In Chapter 5, again, going from “Master Windu!” to “I must say you’re here sooner than I expected” is jarring to cut to the same subject.
  • In Chapter 6, when you cut back and forth from Anakin slaying the Federation to Obi-Wan and Padme, the editing mostly works, but one or two times the music fades out, then immediately cuts back in when you cut back to the Federation. I recommend still having the music play in the background, albeit softly, before fading back in to the Federation slaughter as that would make a better edited montage imho.
  • Finally in Chapter 6, while I loved the idea of cutting back and forth from Anakin and Obi-Wan to Order 66, the changes in music were a little odd and frankly unprofessional for an edit such as this. However I'm not sure how I would remedy that considering the rythym of those sequences are vastly different.
I have been thinking of a way to squeeze in some of the prequels in between Episodes V and VI a la Machete Order for a first timer--I always felt Revenge of the Sith immediately before Return of the Jedi strengthens that film as you fear more for Luke's potential fall to the dark side--but recently I felt like squeezing in 2/3s of a trilogy just for that feels disjointed and does a disservice to the saga. But this edit is the perfect length and the (almost) perfect thing before Return of the Jedi to squeeze in, and you can still get away with showing the rest of the prequels later whenever they'd like as a sort of expanded edition and precursor to The Clone Wars show.

Furthermore, the vignette style of presenting the Prequels actually benefitted the storytelling in a way I hadn't expected--you see, as everyone knows, the Prequels are not very well known for its subtlety. Cutting it down to this length under NORMAL circumstances, I would say you'd be missing in on a lot of the subtleties and the intricacies of the story. However considering that the Prequels do NOT have those, or at least ultimately fails to synthesize them meaningfully, the "broad stroaks" approach actually strengthens Anakin's fall to the dark side, as a lot of things are still left to the imagination (similar to how Tales of the Jedi handles Dooku's betrayal and turn to the dark side.)

The reason I say this is because in the actual Prequels and most Prequel edits, Anakin's arc is still linear and adds a lot of characterization and exposition--Anakin's fear of loss, Obi-Wan's failure to teach what Anakin actually needs, his anger and hate sourced from his troubled past and mistreatment (first from the slave owners, then from the Jedi), and most importantly, his power hungry nature (which ironically is the thing that the Prequels neglected THE MOST). The films try to keep Anakin optimistic and idealistic until the last second so much that, despite all the setup that the films attempt to do, you never believe that Anakin would destroy everything in his path--especially just to save his wife. I understand that his fear of loss led to his wish to be more powerful, to save the ones he loves, but only saying it does not make it believeable. That's just bad writing. We need to see that his initial noble wish turns to greed, and the films largely gloss over that.

The absolute GENIUS of this edit, then, is to reframe everything so that the vignettes make it feel like they're all happening at a similar pace, unlike the original film where the second act of ROTS has everything so rushed. Now, the "broad strokes" approach gives us the same insights that the prequels give--that his fear of loss lead to greed--however it is edited in a far more elegant and natural way. When the distraction of Padme's imminent death is gone, now it seems like he is purely power hungry. We still see him try to hold on to his initial ideals, but we also saw that, leading to his ultimate betrayal, Anakin was itching to get a taste of the dark side, because of the way that @LieutenantDan brilliantly created a montage using his few-and-far-between power hungry moments that the films never succeeded in convincing the audience. So when Anakin said (far more confidently this time) that he can overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy, for the first time when watching these frickin' movies, I actually believed him. This is the highest praise that a Prequel editor can get-- @LieutenantDan actually made the Prequels work.

Now above, I said "almost perfect" because one thing I wish all Prequel edits kept, regardless of how the film itself executes it, is Anakin saying "You underestimate my power" because it ties into Luke saying the very same thing in Return of the Jedi to Jabba, adding to many of the things that makes the audience fear that Luke actually might follow in his father's footsteps.

On a personal note, one line I wish you kept was "So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause." Which is my favorite line in all of Star Wars. Furthermore, I missed some things such as Qui-Gon Jinn's importance to Anakin and how different he was to the rest of the Jedi, including Obi-Wan, as he is the only one who understood that attachments and emotion are not dangerous in and of themselves. On the other hand I realize that this is not what the edit is about and that can always be retained in longer edits of the Prequels.

So thank you, Lieutenant Dan, for this quite marvelous edit you've done. I recommend everyone in the community who have felt wronged by the Prequels to give this a shot. Thumbs way up!
Click to expand...
Mate, thank you. Thank you for the praise and for taking the time. You totally “get it”. And this edit is definitely for the hard core fans which I can tell you are.

I very much appreciate your feedback. As I edge closer to submitting to the academy I will review your suggestions and see which ones “tickle my fancy”.
 
LieutenantDan said:
Mate, thank you. Thank you for the praise and for taking the time. You totally “get it”. And this edit is definitely for the hard core fans which I can tell you are.

I very much appreciate your feedback. As I edge closer to submitting to the academy I will review your suggestions and see which ones “tickle my fancy”.
Click to expand...
I understand that he is quite ticklish!
 
I just finished watching this unique edit and it was very good. That being said, I think some cuts feel too quick. It sounds like you may still be tinkering with the edit Lieutenant Dan. If so, I think it might benefit from some scenes being slightly extended and given room to breathe.

This is a more controversial idea, but
there is some good banter between Ahsoka and Anakin in the Ahsoka show
and I'd be curious how well that might work to add some additional context in your edit. Feel free to ignore this idea though. :)
 
Just finished my first watch-through! I'll have to do a more focused rewatch later on for the sake of giving more and better feedback, but I really enjoyed it! The unique style really did feel like it gave an interesting perspective on all of those individual chapters that wasn't there in the originals, or was at least harder to see, and I think it really worked overall. My feedback is probably going to be disproportionately audio-focused because I've got the most experience with audio stuff (I used a 5.1 setup for this watch-through, so you're aware): I thought that the music in the podrace scene ducked down notably too much during the dialogue, and the first song I noticed that wasn't from any of the movies really felt like it wasn't from the same source as the rest stylistically - if stylistic consistency is something you want to prioritize, it might be worth looking for a replacement track. In general, though, I really enjoyed it and thought that the edit succeeded at what it was trying to do!

I'll try to do a feedback-focused rewatch sometime this week but I don't know what my schedule's gonna look like just yet so no promises.
 
Was this edit delisted from ifdb? I cant seem to find the listing
 
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