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BD / AVCHD differences

boon23

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looks like corel dvd movie factory 7 is something worthy to check out for creating avchd with animated menus and more options.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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I just checked the website. It looks like animated menus is for Blu-ray only, which is no big deal, because the AVCHD should be as compatible as possible.

Just curious, but did Corel take over Ulead? I think this is a newer version of the old Ulead software, which I got started with years ago. It was limited, but not bad for what it was. Might give the trial a spin. could be handy for AVCHD discs (would still use Architect for DVD & BD)
 

Q2

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ThrowgnCpr said:
I just checked the website. It looks like animated menus is for Blu-ray only, which is no big deal, because the AVCHD should be as compatible as possible.

This seems to be the standard. I don't think AVCHD was technically designed to be a delivery format in this matter, so it doesn't conform to the BR standard if you have animated menus and whatnot. Some players, Panasonic most specifically, have trouble with AVCHD that have animated menus.
 

geminigod

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AVCHD is just a different container style. I think it began with the advent of fancy HD video cameras being used by the general masses, the manufacturers like Sony and Panasonic made a push toward making this container format readable on standalone blu-ray players for home edits. Older players might have issues with AVCHD, but probably very few these days (and please don't make me download a BD9 edit. 50GB! :)). I may wind up going this way for my HD Matrix edit I am working on. Sony Vegas and DVD Architect are giant pieces of dog poo when it comes to rendering (I am starting to think Nero 10 might be a good idea just for this alone. Dolby digital's website actually references Nero as a supported app for their codecs!)
 

lpd

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Hiya chaps.
I aint no tech wiz but I thought I'd drop a line on this subject. I use multiavchd (vista/xp) and add menu's but as you say only static, I play them on a Panasonic bdp35. Some of mine have dts sound and work fine. I think one of the difference's and pains about avchd compatibility is the fact that some players will only play them if the are a full res, ie: 1920x1080, 1280x720, 720x480 etc. So if encoding an avchd you have to add in the black bars if it dosn't already have them, to be universaly compatible. Ps3 and sony players I think can add the letterbox themselves. I've also noticed that when I encode a a movie which is 24hz it plays back as 60hz on my Panny. Why I do not know!
 

theslime

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What do you need Nero for? What does it do that open source doesn't? Edit losslessly, encode with Handbrake or MeGUI, make container with any of the several AVCHD tools out there.
 

ThrowgnCpr

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geminigod said:
AVCHD is just a different container style.

this is a pretty poor answer. BD and AVCHD are pretty much the same container, with subtle differences apparently. And no one is making you download a 50GB edit...
 

geminigod

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After reading your response, ThrowgnCpr, I looked into it a little more. As these things often go, now I am more confused. This gives a good summary comparison of BDAV/BDMV vs. AVCHD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_high_definition_optical_disc_formats

(Please correct me if I mess any of this up). As you mentioned, container-wise and codec-wise they seem pretty identical. They are both using the MPEG-4 Transport Stream (technically MPEG-4 part 10, not to be confused with Divx-style MPEG-4 part 2). Both primarily use H.264/AVC (near as I can tell H.264 and AVC are referring to the same thing) as video codecs. However it shows that AVCHD is more limited in the max raw data transfer amount? Why and how? [shrug]. (18 Mbits/s is probably quite sufficient for our needs, though it is worth noting that I just did an AVCHD rip with RipBot264 on high setting and the resultant streams were ~4 Mbps video and 640Kbps audio). As mentioned above by Thunderclap (who appears to be quite the techno guru!) AVCHD is also more limited in "interactivity" menu stuff. Codec support is limited to pretty much only H.264 AVC for video and dolby digital AC3 for audio. This makes sense from a compatibility standpoint.

On comparison of file structures BDAV appears to have a root "certificate" folder that AVCHD does not. The BDAV also appears to have the following additional folders: AUXDATA, BDJO, JAR, & META. These must relate to the extra "interactivity" features found on BDAV. Beyond this, I am at a loss!​
PS: ThrowgnCpr, my 50gb comment meant to be comedic sarcasm. In actuality I would probably be the one crazy person that would download a 50GB movie. I am a high fidelity nut.​
 

ThrowgnCpr

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yep. I follow all of that. What gets me, is you can author a simple BD disc without the interaction. But how does this differ from an AVCHD disc? other than the certificate folder? No one seems to have a solid answer.
 

Q2

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Laser. Blu-Ray uses a blue laser, DVD a red. AVCHD is designed so HD can be burned on a standard DVD if you want. I believe that's one of the big differences.
 

geminigod

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Wait, so Thunderclap... Does this mean that Jedi use blu-ray and Sith use DVD? I'm so confused. :)
 

TV's Frink

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geminigod said:
Wait, so Thunderclap... Does this mean that Jedi use blu-ray and Sith use DVD? I'm so confused. :)
:lol:
 

Kevinicus

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Nero is a piece of cake as far as creating an AVCHD with menus, though as Frink mentioned Nero does have the tendency to re-render things it doesn't need to, but for AVCHD, the files have to be shrunk down anyway, so if Nero is going to be doing something its doing something that needed to be done. For blu-rays I just let Nero do it's thing and also let txmuxer create a blu-ray structure for my original m2ts file (I have to get the chapter times from the Nero generated mpls and enter them into tsmuxer) and then swap out the m2ts and mpls files. That way I'm not using Nero's version and any of it's potential re-renderings. I suppose one could do that for AVCHD as well.

I do wish Nero had more options, but for ease of use as far as creating the menus, it works well. A major downside is that you have to completely recreate the menus from scratch for each format (DVD, AVCHD, blu-ray) even though everything works exactly the same as far as the creation goes. Really wish they'd just ad a button/drop down to switch the format.
 

TV's Frink

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I said what now? :?
 

geminigod

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I was just reading back through this thread. Much of this thread is very misleading. Too many of us were confused ourselves when we posted. My posts were so retarded that I shamefully deleted them :-(.

Maybe we can start anew. Differences between AVCHD & blu-ray:

From an encoding standpoint there is no difference. They are both using the same BD format, file structure, & codecs. The only difference is that AVCHD content is encoded at an average bitrate suitable to fit onto a SL or DL DVD disc. If we stuck this same 8GB onto a blu-ray disc, we would call it BD, but when we stick it onto a DVD we call it AVCHD.

The kink to it being this simple is that many blu-ray players (especially older players and the PS3) get confused by the fact that it is a DVD disc but contains a BD file format. Probably some older players won't play it at all. Many newer players plus PS3 will playback the main video stream but won't support AVCHD menus. There is really no reason this should be the case, and I believe it is a simple software programming issue.

I suspect that the menu complication relates to copyright push-back onto hardware and software developers. They don't want people ripping blu-ray movies and re-encoding them onto a DVD. Whatever logic there once may have been for studios regarding this concern, it is now pretty obsolete given the affordability of blu-ray burners and SL BD discs. It is the same nonsense as observed with computer media players such as Cyberlink's PowerDVD 10. Older versions of PowerDVD allowed for BD playback straight from your hard drive. Now with version 10 it will only play BD content from disc drive (or a good mounted virtual drive such as Virtual Clonedrive). This change was purely a result of copyright politics.

Any dissenters? Any additions to this?
 

TV's Frink

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geminigod,

While this doesn't specifically show up in the rules, online communities generally do not tolerate mass post deletion. It's also #10 on my list of posting etiquette. It tends to destroy the flow of the thread and makes things very confusing or nonsensical for those reading after the fact. Responses to your posts make no sense.

I have restored your posts. If you feel you must address those posts, please make an edit after the text in the affected posts. Thank you.
 

geminigod

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No worries, Frink. I'll try to keep your etiquette in mind in the future. Given this is an informational thread, I was just trying to make the thread less painful for someone reading it for knowledge. When I have sought answers to specific questions on forums it really annoys me when the thread gets too long and convoluted with no clear answer.
 

Kevinicus

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I haven't had any issues with the PS3 playing animated menus on an AVCHD.
 

TV's Frink

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Kevinicus said:
Nero is a piece of cake as far as creating an AVCHD with menus, though as Frink mentioned Nero does have the tendency to re-render things it doesn't need to, but for AVCHD, the files have to be shrunk down anyway, so if Nero is going to be doing something its doing something that needed to be done.

TV's Frink said:
I said what now? :?
.
 
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