• Most new users don't bother reading our rules. Here's the one that is ignored almost immediately upon signup: DO NOT ASK FOR FANEDIT LINKS PUBLICLY. First, read the FAQ. Seriously. What you want is there. You can also send a message to the editor. If that doesn't work THEN post in the Trade & Request forum. Anywhere else and it will be deleted and an infraction will be issued.
  • If this is your first time here please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot. More details on our policies, especially our Own the Source rule are available here. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.
  • Favorite Edit of the Year (FEOTY) Nominations for 2020 are now open! Submit your entries here.

BD / AVCHD differences

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
123
Question for those who have ventured into the HD realm. I've begun creating edits in HD. I released my Because You Were Home edit as a 1080p MKV. It was quite easy to make the MKV, but I thought I should also offer it as an AVCHD disc. I can easily make a no frills disc using tsMuxer, but it would be really nice to have menus. And this is where I am starting to run into problems.

DVD Architect 5+ can create Blu-ray discs, however I have read that there are some differences between AVCHD discs and Blu-ray discs burned onto a DVD5or9. I don't want to go to the trouble of creating a BD disc if it is incompatible on people's players. Can anyone shed some light on this?

SO, if there are differences, what methods have people used to create an AVCHD disc with menus? I have tried multiAVCHD, and I can not get any version of the software to function properly on my system (Win7 64-bit). I have heard that DVD Lab Pro can do this, but I didn't see the capability (though I confess I don't know much about the software, as I am an Architect user).

If I'm stuck creating menu-less AVCHDs, I probably wont upload one for Because You Were Home, but rather just post simple instructions on how to take the MKV and create an AVCHD disc (using mkvExtract, and tsMuxer), and for worthy future projects I might just create a full fledge Blu-ray version (like for T2).
 

STANKPAC

Well-known member
Faneditor
Messages
830
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
26
DVD Lab Pro can make AVCHD discs? I did not know this because I use this program. I'll have to look into this. Thanks Throw! :)
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
123
STANKPAC said:
DVD Lab Pro can make AVCHD discs? I did not know this because I use this program. I'll have to look into this. Thanks Throw! :)

Don't quote me on that. I don't know. I just saw a couple other people post about this capability, but I didn't actually see it myself when I took another recent look at Lab Pro (just saw DVD options). Would be good to get a knowledgeable answer, and if it is possible, some quick notes on how to do it.
 

Q2

Well-known member
Staff member
Messages
7,338
Reaction score
229
Trophy Points
113
There are only two programs I know of that can create AVCHD correctly: Nero Vision ($30) and multiAVCHD (free). Nero Vision is easier to use but I had sync issues with one of my builds. I've been using multiAVCHD longer and have learned to live with its quirks and can use it fairly effectively these days. I keep meaning to write up a guide for it, but then things get in the way. I think my latest edit, Alien 2 (due out next week), turned out well.
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
123
thanks thunderclap. I have heard that multiAVCHD is great stuff (yet buggy), but I can't get it to function on my system. It kept crashing (no matter what version I used).

Do you happen to know what the actual differences are between an AVCHD disc and a blu-ray disc (even if both are on a DVD9)?
 

TV's Frink

You Catch On Pretty Quick
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
23,442
Reaction score
41
Trophy Points
158
ThrowgnCpr said:
Do you happen to know what the actual differences are between an AVCHD disc and a blu-ray disc (even if both are on a DVD9)?
How would a blu-ray disc go on a DVD9? :-?
 

Captain Khajiit

Well-known member
Donor
Messages
2,684
Reaction score
5
Trophy Points
48
Both formats use h.264 for video, so there is no real difference in PQ. Both are similar in terms of disc structure.

AVCHD can support two audio formats: AC-3 (at up to 640kbps) and PCM. Other audio types might work on your player but are out of spec AFAIK. AVCHD is widely supported by stand alone players. I think support is virtually universal in recently released BD players.

BD-9 and (unofficial) BD-5 can support other more advanced audio formats, but are far less widely supported by stand alone players. For fanediting, there is no reason whatsoever why you would need to use more advanced audio codecs and so no reason whatsoever why you would need to go with BD-9 over the far more widely supported AVCHD.

Give AVCHDCoder a look. I haven't used it yet, but it looks promising. I don't like multiAVCHD -- much as I'd like to -- because of its compatibility problems and bugs. I don't like the interface either: it seems, well, cluttered.

TV's Frink said:
How would a blu-ray disc go on a DVD9? :-?

A BD structure can go on a DVD-9. A disc is just a storage medium. You just have to make a player that can read that structure from that medium.
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
123
TV's Frink said:
How would a blu-ray disc go on a DVD9? :-?
as Captain explains in his post, its basically a BD structure with a bitrate low enough to fit on a DVD9. I guess I should have been more explicit and said BD-structure on a DVD9 (aka BD9)


I guess to run with my original question a bit more, what is the structural difference between a BD9 disc that uses AC3 audio, and an AVCHD disc that has the same video and audio streams? Is there? I was led to believe there were differences, but couldn't actually find what they were. To rephrase, I should say if you author a BD9 disc with AC3 audio (at say, 448kbps), is it any different than authoring an AVCHD disc?

Just taking a quick look at the screenshots for AVCHDCoder, it doesn't look like it has menu support. It's easy to create a movie only AVCHD disc using tsMuxer, but I am more interested in one with menus.
 

Captain Khajiit

Well-known member
Donor
Messages
2,684
Reaction score
5
Trophy Points
48
ThrowgnCpr said:
To rephrase, I should say if you author a BD9 disc with AC3 audio (at say, 448kbps), is it any different than authoring an AVCHD disc?

The answer is yes, but I cannot give you an in depth technical explanation of the differences. One is that strict AVCHD does not have a Certificate folder and BD-9 does, I believe. (AVCHD AUX does.)
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
123
Captain Khajiit said:
The answer is yes, but I cannot give you an in depth technical explanation of the differences. One is that strict AVCHD does not have a Certificate folder and BD-9 does, I believe.

Thanks Captain. It would be really good if we could figure out the differences. If it is just the presence or not of a certificate folder, in theory you could make a BD9 AVCHD compliant. ...but somehow I am guessing there is more to it than that.
 

Q2

Well-known member
Staff member
Messages
7,338
Reaction score
229
Trophy Points
113
If memory serves, Strict conforms AVCHD into the BR directory structure. This makes (or made?) it easier for BR players to handle AVCHD properly. If you didn't use strict then only the necessary directory structure is kept for playback but it allowed for better customization. I believe the biggest difference is when it comes to menu design. If you use Strict you can't have animated menus. Strict = better compatibility.
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
123
lets keep this discussion going, its still a bit vague so far, but I like where the discussion is going. It sounds like Strict is essentially the BD9 structure (with static menus). Does it have the certificate folder? There must be more to it though.
 

Captain Khajiit

Well-known member
Donor
Messages
2,684
Reaction score
5
Trophy Points
48
Strict AVCHD does not have the Certificate folder. There is more to the difference than the presence of this folder though. Obviously, you couldn't just delete the folder to make an AUX structure strict. I tried to find out about this a while back, but didn't find out much. I think the distinction probably lies in very small differences in how the structure is created. It doesn't help that the Doom9 forums seem to have been down for the last few days...
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
123
Captain Khajiit said:
Strict AVCHD does not have the Certificate folder. There is more to the difference than the presence of this folder though. Obviously, you couldn't just delete the folder to make an AUX structure strict.
haha, well, I think there is nothing obvious about this riddle, but I agree, its probably a silly thought to just think that the presence or absence of the certificate folder makes the difference

Captain Khajiit said:
I tried to find out about this a while back, but didn't find out much. I think the distinction probably lies in very small differences in how the structure is created. It doesn't help that the Doom9 forums seem to have been down for the last few days...
Yeah, I noticed its been down. I'd really like to get to the bottom of this, because if I am going to release HD edits, I'd like to make them as widely compatible (yet with best quality and features) as possible.
 

Captain Khajiit

Well-known member
Donor
Messages
2,684
Reaction score
5
Trophy Points
48
If compatibility is what you are looking for then I don't see a reason for choosing anything other than AVCHD -- unless you're desperate to have DTS? I do recall some people saying that while one might expect strict AVCHD structure to be more compatible (It is in theory.) they had more luck using the loose AVCHD structure when using multiAVCHD. Adywan said at one point that he uses multiAVCHD 3 because 4 has compatibility problems, but I don't know if this is still the case. The downside was that the older version can only create static menus. That's not much of downside as far as I'm concerned, but mileage differs ... :)
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
123
Static menus are better than no menus at all!! I don't have a problem, per se, with AVCHD, however creating one (with menus) is having a problem with me. I'm not going to go to the effort of making a bare-bones AVCHD for my BYWH edit and uploading it, if it is essentially the same thing as the MKV I uploaded. I can post instructions on how to create an AVCHD disc from it with just a few clicks using MKVextract and tsMuxer.

I also don't care about DTS. I saw Adywans comments on multiAVCHD versions 3 and 4, and I tried them both, and had different bugs/crashes with each of them.

I guess I just really want to get to the bottom line about structure and compliance of both BD9 and AVCHD, because they are essentially the same thing - but the subtleties in the setup seem to make all the difference.
 

Q2

Well-known member
Staff member
Messages
7,338
Reaction score
229
Trophy Points
113
Hopefully Kevinicus will weigh in as I know he uses Nero. That might be your best avenue.
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
123
I'd prefer to avoid Nero. I really don't like its limitations, and I think it has a tendancy to re-encode things it shouldn't be. Perhaps things have changed, but I somehow have my doubts.
 

elbarto1

Well-known member
Faneditor
Cover Artist
Messages
3,629
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
53
I cant get MultiAVCHD to work well on win7 either (32bit) I always have to boot into XP to get it working. never tried making menus with it though cause I dont care about em for personal use (and none of my fanedit releases are HD)

I usually just make a m2ts file and burn that to a dvd and play it on my ps3 unless its a long movie where creating a AVHD disc is the only way to go. But I doubt a regular old m2ts would play on a standard bluray player.
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,078
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
123
I am debating scrapping the separate AVCHD idea, and going with 2 HD releases:

1) an MKV (that fits on a DL disc or smaller) with quick instructions on how to demux and mux into AVCHD for those who cant stream it.
2) a full BD release (only for certain projects)

I won't do option #2 for BYWH, but will for projects like T2 or other worthy future endeavors.
 
Top Bottom