Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[ssj]

song, meh.

catwoman. . . MEOW.

 

[TM2YC]

Anybody remember where the establishing shot of the Daily Planet is in BvS? It would be a big help as I don't want to sit through 3-hours of it just to find the shot. It looks like this IIRC...

 

[KingoftheGundam79]

Anybody remember where the establishing shot of the Daily Planet is in BvS? It would be a big help as I don't want to sit through 3-hours of it just to find the shot. It looks like this IIRC...

It's not in the movie. It's from the Turkish Airlines Metropolis Ad. You can tell because not only is there actual sun here, but COLOR as well!

 

[TM2YC]

It's not in the movie. It's from the Turkish Airlines Metropolis Ad. You can tell because not only is there actual sun here, but COLOR as well!

Thanks! Good news is I can quickly get that off youtube (once the framerate has been converted)... bad news is that it's not gonna be great quality. I already know the answer is no... but did this advert ever find itself on a blu-ray somewhere?

 

[KingoftheGundam79]

It's not in the movie. It's from the Turkish Airlines Metropolis Ad. You can tell because not only is there actual sun here, but COLOR as well!

Thanks! Good news is I can quickly get that off youtube (once the framerate has been converted)... bad news is that it's not gonna be great quality. I already know the answer is no... but did this advert ever find itself on a blu-ray somewhere?

I'm not sure, since there is no way you will ever pay me to stand within 50 feet of a video store to get Batman v. Superman, but don't TV spots usually end up in DVDs?

 

[TM2YC]

don't TV spots usually end up in DVDs?

Trailers do but not necessarily meta-adverts for airlines. Looking at the few Zack Snyder blu-rays I have, they are stuffed with extra content but no trailers. Maybe he hates trailers like Tarantino hates deleted scenes and commentaries?

 

[Canon Editor]

I really don't get the hate for this movie. 29% on Rottentomatoes??? Seriously? It had a few flaws, but come on. Loads of it was great - some parts absolute genius.
How can something like Age of Ultron be praised (or at least get a free pass) whereas BvS is treated as a flaming pile of trash. It's bizarre.
Do people just hate Snyder?

After three years, I read some of these posts again and found yours.  After a lot of thinking about it, I have arrived to the conclusion that the reason why other, non-Marvel superhero movies (not only DC) anger some critics so much is that they actually try to communicate something big with the art form.  Even when they manage to make mediocre or even good films, the fact it has flaws and tries to also be a good film all-round, seems to itch some. 
I don’t know if I made myself clear, it’s just a thought.

 

[hbenthow]

After three years, I read some of these posts again and found yours.  After a lot of thinking about it, I have arrived to the conclusion that the reason why other, non-Marvel superhero movies (not only DC) anger some critics so much is that they actually try to communicate something big with the art form.  Even when they manage to make mediocre or even good films, the fact it has flaws and tries to also be a good film all-round, seems to itch some.

But if that were the case, why would "The Dark Knight" and "Wonder Woman" be so critically acclaimed?

 

[bionicbob]

My theory is Pop Culture perception.   Even if you not a comic book reader, after 70 plus years of comic lore on radio, tv, serials, cartoon, movies, advertisements, books, etc... the average movie goer knows the 101 basics of superheroes.  Marvel embraces this.  Wonder Woman, The Dark Knight and Aquaman embraced this.

Zac Snyder is not interested the greater pop mythos of the DC characters.  He is instead obsessed with a very tiny sliver of these heroes vast history... the Grim and Gritty 90s... when heroes were plagued with doubt and amorality, when heroes were as damaged, if not more, than the villains they were fighting, when heroes killed... it was a period of extremism.  It was very brief but popular and profitable comic period before the industry imploded.   Now I have little love for this dark period in comic book history, but I understand its appeal and know it still has strong supporters.

But in my opinion this is not how the average person views comic book heroes, particularly DC heroes.  So I suspect this may play role in how Batman V Superman was received and reviewed.  Maybe people want heroes that actual inspire them instead making them want to take a pill for depression?  

Or might be just because the entire third act is a narrative mess --- MARTHA!!!  

 

[thecuddlyninja]

Ah the old "DC movies do worse with critics because they're generally just worse movies" conspiracy theory, eh?? I also prescribe to this wild and crazy idea.

 

[Masirimso17]

The story of Batman v Superman is not a bad one. So I get why a lot of people really love it. It’s just terribly executed. The characters were hypocritical idiots, Batman was a murderous psychopath, Superman was way to mopey and his character was totally backwards, and the overall tone was just depressing. 

I definitely agree with @"bionicbob" that this is a genre that has built on hope and inspiration, which is why it had the negative reception. I can’t say Zack Snyder doesn’t understand this because I love Man of Steel and personally think is very hopeful and inspirational. MoS had these values which balanced the gritty and realistic tone. Unfortunately in BvS they were absent. Snyder did this intentionally to portray a dark and corrupt world like in the Biblical Book of Revelation (which would be redeemed in Justice League, and kinda was but the end result sucked). There’s no reason why a dark world in a comic book adaptation shouldn’t work. Even Superman, if portrayed consistently and true to his ideals, could theoretically work, although it is really difficult. In a dark movie there would have to be some kind of silver lining. Some levity, or inspiration, or hope, or a hard truth/message, something... Children of Men is the perfect example for this. You care about the characters, you want them to succeed and bring the last hope to a dark world. There’s nothing like that in BvS.

Batman v Superman is a superhero movie where it chooses not to be escapism and instead poses (or rather tries to pose) philosophical and theological questions about life. It tries to be bold and groundbreaking trying to face these issues. But it falls flat on its face because of its messy plot, horrible characters and dull tone.

Although I have to admit, even though at first I hated Jesse Eisenberg’s performance as Lex Luthor, I always understood his motivations and how they related to the story and themes. If you ask me I think that is one of the better parts of the movie (kind of), and also automatically better than the cliche one dimensional villains that Marvel has put out like Malekith and Ronan, or that DC has put out like Parallax and Steppenwolf.

Of course Lex isn’t a great villain. His plan was needlessly complicated and unclear, he’s not threatening at all, and I still hate Jesse Eisenberg’s performance including his weird quirks like the “Oooh. Aaah. Mmmh”s. But he’s not godawful. In my eyes he’s along the lines of, say, Whiplash from Iron Man 2, where he had a great backstory and motivation (and a very good performance by Mickey Rourke) but didn’t do anything for most of the movie.

Of course another good thing in BvS is Wonder Woman. She’s effin’ awesome. And Hans Zimmer and Junkie XL’s musical score is beautiful.

So yeah, overall pretty terrible movie but has some good things going for it. At least it’s a better film than Suicide Squad and Justice League (even though those are more fun, both genuinely and ironically)

 

[bionicbob]

Zax Snyder is an interesting director.  I really enjoy most of his earlier work.  But if you look at the common theme of his past works, it is dark cynicism.  It made him a perfect director for WATCHMEN,  a movie I thoroughly enjoy despite its many flaws.  But how did anyone at Warners think this was a good match for the DC Universe?

I believe DC has many characters that could be turned into a great dark R rated movie, but the big iconic seven?  I don't think so...

I do not hate Batman V Superman.  It is not a complete disaster that some make it out to be.  I think the directors cut is slightly better than the theatrical.   I appreciate it's ambition.  But it is a movie I like less and less with each rewatch.  The foundation of the story is flawed as many, many, many others have pointed out.... a Batman that is a killer and a Superman with no hope... essentailly it a superhero movie with no heroes.  There is no one to like.  No one to cheer for.  No one to emphasize for...


But more than that, it is a story that is completely unearned.

This is not the type of story you tell as your second entry in a franchise builder.   Man of Steel barely established Superman.  We never really saw him as a full on inspirational hero.  He did not have enough of arc to make the audience care that in his only second appearance he is suddenly depressed and lost.   And Batman has even less of a character arc than Superman.  Before you can tear down, deconstruct a character, you have to actually invest some time into them to build them up.   Snyder lacks the patience. precision and craftsmanship for this type of storytelling.

The biggest problem is Snyder trying to do a square peg in a round hole adaptation of Frank Miller's THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.... this would make a great stand alone movie, but as a shared universe franchise builder it is a complete mistake.  And then to try and crammed in Superman's death on top of it....  

Again, I admire Snyder's boldness and intentions.  Visually he is an amazing storyteller.  And his drive to push superhero movies into new directions is admireable.   But when it comes to building characters, particularly characters you need to be emotionally invested in, and designing cohessive smart narrative, Snyder is not in his element.  Many ways, he is like Michael Bay, brilliant with visual shock and awe, but populating his stories with shallow, empty disposable characters.

And yet, he still has ardent supporters and defenders.  Everyday there seems to be a fan online singing his praises or screaming for the release of the Snyder cut of Justice League.  And that is cool.  To each their own.  Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.

Besides, I have the Arrowverse to watch for old skool heroics. 

 

[Masirimso17]

I guess it’s better to be a director who at least attempts to tell a meaningful story alongside the balls to the wall action (Zack Snyder) than just mindless balls to the wall action (Michael Bay). And despite not liking BvS I still support the Snyder Cut. Guy deserves to have his version of story told, (as much available as possible, like the Donner Cut) however good or bad it may be.

 

[Jrzag42]

I love all of Snyder's works that I've seen, including BvS, though I try not to be one of his overly obsessive fans. I've only seen the entirety of the theatrical version of BvS, the only bits of the Ultimate Edition I've seen have been from Fanedits. I really need to get around to watching it, maybe this weekend. Even the theatrical cut, I only actually saw once. I also really need to revisit Man of Steel. 
Snyder's Dawn of the Dead and Watchmen are two of my favorite movies though. 

Anyways, what was the point of this post? I don't know. I guess I just wanted to be the contrarian in the room and say that I don't understand all or any of the criticism for Batman v Superman.

 

[Masirimso17]

I love all of Snyder's works that I've seen, including BvS, though I try not to be one of his overly obsessive fans. I've only seen the entirety of the theatrical version of BvS, the only bits of the Ultimate Edition I've seen have been from Fanedits. I really need to get around to watching it, maybe this weekend. Even the theatrical cut, I only actually saw once. I also really need to revisit Man of Steel. 
Snyder's Dawn of the Dead and Watchmen are two of my favorite movies though. 

Anyways, what was the point of this post? I don't know. I guess I just wanted to be the contrarian in the room and say that I don't understand all or any of the criticism for Batman v Superman.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion and can say it here. It is the BvS thread after all  I also love a very hated superhero movie, which is Amazing Spider-Man 2. I don’t agree with the hate and any criticism for that movie. Don’t be ashamed of your opinion with things like “what was the point of this post?”, it’s nice to have differing opinions so we can talk about them. Without them life would be boring.

Geez I need to stop the know-it-all “wise” talk before someone gets annoyed by my pretentiousness.

 

[Jrzag42]

I love your know it all wise talk.

 

[wilhelm scream]

My main problem with Batman Vs Superman, is that it's so boring! It just drags on, and on, and on, and it's full of superfluous scenes and subplots. I once watched an edit which was only 90 minutes long, which shows how padded the movie is. The title is the perfect example of this. It's a film that is called Batman vs Superman, but they don't fight for 2 hours, and the fight just sucks. There's no real reason for it to happen, it's only 5 minutes long and it has the dumbest resolution ever. How anyone can defend this move is beyond me.

 

[Jrzag42]

Actually, it's V, not VS. V is used in legal context, like a trial. So nowhere does the title imply that they will fight, it's more about them against eachother beyond the physical duel. I can't exactly explain what I'm trying to say. 
I digress. 
But anyways, it being boring is a valid complaint. I'll accept that. Different aspects bore different people. I can't comment on the side plots, I really need to revisit the film. Maybe I'm remembering it poorly, though I do know I enjoyed it then.

 

[wilhelm scream]

Actually, it's V, not VS. V is used in legal context, like a trial. So nowhere does the title imply that they will fight, it's more about them against eachother beyond the physical duel. I can't exactly explain what I'm trying to say. 
I digress. 
But anyways, it being boring is a valid complaint. I'll accept that. Different aspects bore different people. I can't comment on the side plots, I really need to revisit the film. Maybe I'm remembering it poorly, though I do know I enjoyed it then.

Well I doubt most people are familiar with V used in a legal context, I just thought it was a spelling error Warner Bros. made and couldn;t be bothered to fix. And what does V have to do with the film?

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

I just thought it was a spelling error Warner Bros. made and couldn;t be bothered to fix.

really? REALLY?