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Batman: Descent Into Mystery

While I appreciate several aspects of Returns a lot, I find precious little BatMyth in it. And, as usual, it's not the what that bothers me, it's the how. Batman/Bruce's behavior is more out of character than ever, he's more into casual killing than in '89 and even seems to enjoy it (that smile when he hangs the dynamite on the clown's belt), he seems even more awkward as Bruce, and he gives away his secret identity to everyone and their uncle, including the villains. I could forgive the mutant Penguin, if only he didn't behave like an American Pie character. (Still, to me there's only one Penguin and it's this guy.) Paradoxically, though, what I like the most from it is what I dislike the most from '89: the love story. At its core Returns is a romance movie between freaks, and there's no doubt those two loonies belong together. My favorite scene is the masked ball in which everyone is wearing masks... except for Bruce and Selina. I think Freud would have loved it. But a Batman movie it ain't, not any more than my short consecution edit A Psychogenic Fugue is a Spider-Man movie.
 
I hate Returns, a lot. I never understood why it even had a fanbase, I thought I'd get it later but I didn't, I never even liked Catwoman because her 'origin' was just so stupid, I guess it's weird because I for the most part like Burton at his kookiest, but I guess for me it doesn;t work in the batman lore.... but without it, warner bros probably wouldn't have greenlight a certain Bruce Timm/Paul Dini cartoon. I guess it's more prevailent in the later seasons where they started drawing the penguin as a normal Aristocrat again, and gave Selina her brunette hair back (but ruining the designs of many characters in the process)

Also I realised I watched your workprint a year ago, in terms of narrative has much changed since then? Not sure why I'm even asking because I'm going to watch the redux edition tomorrow.
 
Omaru1982 said:
Also I realised I watched your workprint a year ago, in terms of narrative has much changed since then? Not sure why I'm even asking because I'm going to watch the redux edition tomorrow.
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You probably watched it before I moved any scenes around, and back when I attempted to give Vicki something to do in the story in order to not make her seem so useless, in which I failed. So, in the finished edit you'll get better narrative and less Kim Basinger.
 
Dwight Fry said:
While I appreciate several aspects of Returns a lot, I find precious little BatMyth in it. And, as usual, it's not the what that bothers me, it's the how. Batman/Bruce's behavior is more out of character than ever, he's more into casual killing than in '89 and even seems to enjoy it (that smile when he hangs the dynamite on the clown's belt), he seems even more awkward as Bruce, and he gives away his secret identity to everyone and their uncle, including the villains. I could forgive the mutant Penguin, if only he didn't behave like an American Pie character. (Still, to me there's only one Penguin and it's this guy.) Paradoxically, though, what I like the most from it is what I dislike the most from '89: the love story. At its core Returns is a romance movie between freaks, and there's no doubt those two loonies belong together. My favorite scene is the masked ball in which everyone is wearing masks... except for Bruce and Selina. I think Freud would have loved it. But a Batman movie it ain't, not any more than my short consecution edit A Psychogenic Fugue is a Spider-Man movie.
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Yeah, I really can not explain WHY I enjoy RETURNS so much, especially when I know it is so universally reviled.
The comic book fanboy side of me, knows this is NOT Batman, in any version I have grown up on.
But some other side of me, just really enjoys the the dark, twistedness of the movie. And you are right, the love story between Bruce and Selina is magnetic, like a horrible car accident you can not stop yourself from watching. I dunno, but this movie just grabs and holds me. Maybe I need therapy.... LOL!:p
 
Yeah, I really can not explain WHY I enjoy RETURNS so much, especially when I know it is so universally reviled.
The comic book fanboy side of me, knows this is NOT Batman, in any version I have grown up on.
But some other side of me, just really enjoys the the dark, twistedness of the movie. And you are right, the love story between Bruce and Selina is magnetic, like a horrible car accident you can not stop yourself from watching. I dunno, but this movie just grabs and holds me. Maybe I need therapy.... LOL!:p
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I'm totally on the same page here. I love Batman Returns. Always have and always will, regardless of how far removed from any Batman mythology it may be. For me it's Tim Burton's finest hour and features what will probably be my favourite portrayal of Catwoman ever. Wonder why? :D
 
Thirded, Returns is on a whole different level and I love it. Great movie and easily my favorite of the four. Also the furthest removed from being a Batman movie.

I watched this edit yesterday. 10/10, will have to write a review at some point. I don't really have much to say that hasn't been said. This movie won't get any better given the source material, and I loved it. The only way to possibly improve on it would be to find Jack Nicholson lines from other movies and replace the weaker Joker lines.
 
One thing I need to commend Dwight on is the Axis scene, the way Jack fell over the walkway always looked like way too much between the fall and batman's attempt to catch him. Nice to see that lapse of time play out exactly as it should.
 
This edit is now on Usenet. NZB submitted to info. There were 2 stubborn files so use PAR2s to repair.
 
I started watching this a few days ago, but I couldn't even finish it.

I was amazed at the image quality (and I suppose color correction, alltough I didn't recognize it as such), but I really just couldn't stand the story. It's just too silly and stupid for me. And off course, that's how it was written and recorded. I found myself thinking about ways to cut down Jack Nicholsons character to make him less over-the-top. But in the end I don't think it would have saved the movie for me; it's just too silly throughout.

I did watch it far enough to notice a small technical glitch though: At the scene transition around 31.39 there's a few milliseconds of audio left from what I'm guessing is a scene you cut.

Anyway, thanks for making me rewatch the first batman movie again. Now I know I can give away my DVD without regretting it later. :)
 
No problem, herowoac. Thanks for watching! Guess the edit, or the movie, can't be for everyone. :)

From the time code you give, I suppose the glitch you mention happens right before the scene in which Joker appears in Grissom's office, right? What I did there was including some seconds of music from a cut scene over the end of the previous one, as I thought it made the transition smoother, as that music followed a bit over the beginning of the Grissom one. Does it really sound glitchy to you? I guess I can still go back and try alternatives.

Also, thanks a whole lot to everyone so far who posted reviews/ratings on IFDB. You guys are awesome.
 
Dwight Fry said:
From the time code you give, I suppose the glitch you mention happens right before the scene in which Joker appears in Grissom's office, right? What I did there was including some seconds of music from a cut scene over the end of the previous one, as I thought it made the transition smoother, as that music followed a bit over the beginning of the Grissom one. Does it really sound glitchy to you? I guess I can still go back and try alternatives.
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Sounded fine to me. :)
 
Dwight Fry said:
From the time code you give, I suppose the glitch you mention happens right before the scene in which Joker appears in Grissom's office, right?
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I'd have to redownload it to check, and I probably won't. I really don't remember. I seem to remember the scene before the cut was a sort of a quiet scene with Bruce and/or Alfred in it. And a maybe a sink, or a mirror, or maybe a mirror over a sink? I don't remember clearly, so I could be completely wrong. I don't remember there being any music, but then again I don't usually remember the music unless I know it well.

Anyway as I recall it the glitch in question was a few frames worth of noise (maybe 5 or 6 miliseconds) that ended abruptly as the sound from the next scene started. It was subtle, but I noticed it. It sounded like sound left over from the beginning of a scene that was no longer there. (or I guess if it was added music, as if it was cut just slightly too late and had a little of the sound from the following scene still in it) My first reaction was to go back and look for flash frames, but there wasn't any. I did go back and check three och four times though, and the audio glitch was exactly the same every time.
 
herowoac said:
I'd have to redownload it to check, and I probably won't. I really don't remember. I seem to remember the scene before the cut was a sort of a quiet scene with Bruce and/or Alfred in it. And a maybe a sink, or a mirror, or maybe a mirror over a sink? I don't remember clearly, so I could be completely wrong. I don't remember there being any music, but then again I don't usually remember the music unless I know it well.

Anyway as I recall it the glitch in question was a few frames worth of noise (maybe 5 or 6 miliseconds) that ended abruptly as the sound from the next scene started. It was subtle, but I noticed it. It sounded like sound left over from the beginning of a scene that was no longer there. (or I guess if it was added music, as if it was cut just slightly too late and had a little of the sound from the following scene still in it) My first reaction was to go back and look for flash frames, but there wasn't any. I did go back and check three och four times though, and the audio glitch was exactly the same every time.
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Strange. Sounds good enough to me:

 
I agree. I suppose what I was hearing was that sound at the 6-7 second mark (Right at the cut when the mirror appears) It sort of sounds like a-, click, roll, roll, rolll. The sound I'm referring to that sounds choppy, or glitchy is the a, not the click or the rolling sound. From what you've said I guess it was there in the original movie as well.
It certainly has nothing to do with the music. (nice work on that by the way) If it was up to me, I would probably just remove it, since it has no narative function anyway (might be him closing a cupboard off screen or something equally irrelevant, whereas the click and roll might be Grissom picking up a towel from a revolving drum or something like it, which could be relevant since we see him carrying a towel.) and to someone like me a sudden chopped-off sound like that just screams "lazy sound work". Allthough not yours apparently.
 
Yup, that's exactly as it was in the original movie. Probably, as you indicate, the sound of him closing a cupboard or something along those lines.
 
Thanks a lot for the review and rating, dave furbush! Glad you enjoyed it! :)
 
It's great, man... LOVE it. I suppose the more edits i digest, the more critical iIll eventually become.... But, until that day.. what I've seen so far has rocked. I gotta definitely utilize the tech section and learn how to do these.
 
LastSurvivor said:
There's a phrase which DwightFry said once in a thread on the forum... something which has stuck with me ever since. It was something along the lines of ... "You never complete an edit; you abandon it". How true that is.
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Just for the record, Dwight re-appropriated da Vinci's quote.

Leonardo da Vinci said:
Art is never finished, only abandoned.
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Thanks so much for the wonderful review, LS! :)

About the Prince number in the museum, I must say I never liked it. Apart from the awful song (the mythical VHS cut by JMB, I understand, kept the scene but changed the music), it just stops the show dead cold and adds nothing to develop either the plot or the characters. To me it alwas played like a music video thrown in there for marketing reasons.

And I'm afraid I can't agree with "even if seeing Bale's fantastic portrayal of Batman made Keaton's look very weak in comparison". While the Nolan movies have their very strong points, Bale's portrayal of Batman was one of the weakest links for me. He made a better, or a better cast, Bruce Wayne than Keaton, all right, but when in costume I much prefer Keaton. I like my Batman a man of few words, with a voice that doesn't sound like he has terminal throat cancer, and in a costume that actually looks like a Batman costume and not a SWAT armor with an Atom Ant helmet. But, different strokes. :)

Oh, and what Neg said. The quote is borrowed. I just wish I could come up with such wise sentences all by myself.

Again, THANKS!
 
Dwight Fry said:
I like my Batman a man of few words, with a voice that doesn't sound like he has terminal throat cancer, and in a costume that actually looks like a Batman costume and not a SWAT armor with an Atom Ant helmet.
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Indeed. Especially the terminal throat cancer part. It was a bit much. :| Kevin Conroy got a great balance between Bruce and Batman in that regard. Edgy, but not 'what did he say?!' fake gravelly.
 
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