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3 more Terminator movies without Arnie!

boon23

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well, there must be terminators, so of course they had to change storylines and present some more of the kind.
 

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Legal reasons, T-Hope? Huh?

I am thinking, worst-case scenario this will be like the Crow series to me. I liked it, but it WASN'T the Crow. I count it as a separate canon.

The evidence that they travel forward in time just piles up. Looks like that is exactly what happens here. Yuck.

Looks like they changed the music from T2 stuff to newly-composed stuff. It's kind of generic, if you ask me.
 

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I suspect the future clips are just flash forwards like in the movies.
I don't think they're time traveling, at least I hope not.

beckman: I agree. The Crow TV series was pretty darn good (better than most of the sequels), and yet separate from the movies. A bit lighter though.
"The Chairman" made a decent Crow, and I loved the re-addition of the Skull Cowboy.
 

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The rumor has them traveling to like 2006, I think. Not the post-apocalypse, but the present day. Probably to avoid anachronisms and stuff. There IS a modern-looking cell-phone in one of the trailers, and this extended trailer shows a lot of the time-traveling evidence. The blue electrical light show, Sarah, John and Glau being nude, etc. Watch closely.
 

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beckmen said:
Legal reasons, T-Hope? Huh?
"legal" reasons, Not really legal legal things, but just that I am asked not to reveal or there could be some consequences...

But from what I have heard/read, here are some clues;
- the Termi-girl builds a futuristic gun, and the time machine.
- if they want to destroy the makers of Sky-net, then they have to go to the year he was created: 2007.
- some people (cops, ex-fiancee) who were looking for John and Sarah in the present, start looking for them in 2007.
 

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I don't get it, do you have some kind of official connection with this show?

Watched the promo. No new thoughts, really. Other than...am I the only one that had to rewind that shot of Cameron removing a bullet because I thought I saw a nipple? :lol:

Traveling the future is still gay, but the show still looks fun.
 

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I have the pilot of the Sarah Connor Chronicles in DVD quality now. Haven't watched it completely yet.
 

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WHAT?! where did you find it I spent the last 3 weeks looking?!

If you can and it isn't a ny trouble could I get a copy..
 

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http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1260303/4627860/



The show opens with the road, same way like T2 ended with the road.

Yeah, the Terminator have those mechanical sounds where they are moving, but not all the time. Mostly when they are fighting or are damaged.

Danny Dyson and Tarissa Dyson are in the pilot. Even Miles Dyson is in it, they show a picture of it (but it has another face than the one from T2). Unlike the special edition of T2 shows us, the Dyson family only exists of those three members.

The guy Terminator just lies dorments, and gets active when a police computer requests information about Sarah Connor. Then he more or lesss wakes up and starts his mission.

And there's a really interesting new thing about the Terminator's skin. The ears, when damaged, are not only flesh but have some mechanical wire to keep the form.

Our protecting Termi-girl Cameron has openend a safety deposit box at the some kind of bank IN 1963, with a kind of weapon and time travel stuff.

I still don't know their makes, modelnummers, but the guy Terminator has a red TermoVision while our protecting Termi-girl Cameron has some transparant with green TermoVision.

Termi-girl Cameron can smile...

Sarah is a waitress.

The Terminator guy rips away a door to a vault, 1 shot looked similar to the T1's scene where the Endo tries to get through the door while Kyle and Sarah are in the factory. But his movements look even more powerfull than the movements of a T-800 or T-1000.

Someone ("one of our best engineers") was send back to build the gun and time travel stuff. Cameron says that an engineer build a time travel machine in the vault, "so that there was always a way back home". Oh man, this really contradicts Cameron's story of "no way back".

Looks like just before traveling into the future, Sarah shoots off the head of the Terminator guy. Would be a really cool gimmick if they will base SKYNET on this Terminator technology.

Cameron gives the Terminator guy an overload of electric power. She then tells Sarah that his system needs a reboot of 120 seconds.

Sarah has hidden weapons in her house.

Sarah's age is 33 in this pilot. The show takes place at 09.10.1999. 1999 - 33 = 1966 Sarah's birthyear.

Cameron is from the year 2027. She has been looking for John (her mission is to protect John) for 73 days.

Cameron: The SKYNET missile defence system goes online april 19th 2011. It declares war on makind and triggers a nuclear 2 days later.
Sarah: Miles Dyson died.
Cameron: Someone else build SKYNET.
Sarah: Who?
Cameron: I don't know.
Sarah: You don't know who builds the computer that blows up the world.
Cameron: I wasn't send here for that.

Tarissa was told Sarah killed Miles during their raid on Cyberdyne. To prove Tarissa the Terminators are back, Cameron lights up her pupils to an unhuman color blue.

Dyson's address:
Dyson Residence
41645 Mulholland Dr.
Los Angeles, Ca
90272


The Dyson scene is very short. Basic outline:
You see the kid Danny opening the door, then Tarissa appears. She wants to call the cops. Sarah forces the phone away. Sarah tells her she didn?t kill Miles and that Miles was a hero. Then she asks if someone else was involved with Miles because SKYNET continues. Tarissa tells them Miles was the only one. Then Cameron tells them they need to go, because she somehow senses the Terminator Cromartie that is arriving. Sarah then asks if Tarissa wants to help her. Tarissa doesn?t respond. Sarah asks Tarissa if she wants help John. Tarissa looks up, end of the scene. NExt shot of them is driving Dyson?s vehicle into the Terminator. And then the footage you saw on the IGN clips.


Here some pics (I resized them for this forum):

Opening pilot:
scc01.jpg

Sarah's nightmare Terminator:
scc02.jpg

Nightmare Terminator after shot him in the face:
scc03.jpg

Sarah and fiancee:
scc04.jpg

Miles Dyson:
scc05.jpg

Sarah Connor hospital record:
scc06.jpg

The Dyson family:
scc07.jpg

Sarah Connor info on police computer:
scc08.jpg

Badly damaged Terminator (notice the ear):
scc09.jpg

Our heroes in the future to stop SKYNET:
scc10.jpg
 

daveytod

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one vital bit of information you missed T-Hope. As our resident terminator expert - did you like it?
 

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daveytod said:
one vital bit of information you missed T-Hope. As our resident terminator expert - did you like it?

It didn't really feel as Terminator to me. Just some short run & chase movie with no ending (or open ending).

I must say the special effects were good.

But overall... I can't imagine it as follow-up of T2. Sarah suddenly has a fiancee so shortly after T2? Sarah as a housewife/waitress so shortly after she was a hard forwarded warrior in T2? Suddenly killing Miles doesn't prevent Judgment Day but the protecting Termi-girl herself doesn't know who build SKYNET because that's not her mission? They send back one of their engineers so there was always a way back home?
Even trying to think about an alternate timeline, I really don't see it following up T2. The points writing down above are so different then what we are told in T1/T2.

And still nothing about their modelnumbers, yet both their TermoVisions are really different with the colours.
Termi-girl Cameron has some transparant vision with green things.
Terminator guy Cromartie has a red TermoVision, and is able to change it to a heat seaking vision.
Give us those modelnumbers! I personally doubt if both are T-800 units, because of their different TermoVisions, but also because their build underneath looks different. When Cameron and Cromartie are repairing themselves, what we see of their chassis looks different then the chassis of a T-800 unit. Also when Cromartie is ripping away the door of the vault, it looks like he has much more strength than Arnie's T-800/T-850 units.

The Terminators really don't look muscular.

What worked very well was starting the show with a similar road the way T2 ended. However, it flows over into a nightmare sequence, so is the road scene really happening or just a bad dream?

There are also some small hints/references to the previous movies, which was a nice touch.


But right now, I'm still having my doubts... I miss some Terminator feeling. Perhaps this is because the show doesn't feature any of the original actors (Schwarzenegger, Hamilton, Furlong/Stahl,etc.) so we have to link to new faces. But right now, I'm not sure.
Also, if this is some kind of alternate timeline (*again*, or *multiple timelines*), then somehow I start caring less for the characters. If they will not make it alive in this timeline, then they will probably make it alive in another timeline. So with all these new Terminator shows and movies that take on another alternate timeline, it's hard to care for the characters.
 

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If they wanted to make a decent movie about cyborgs in the future killing humans then they could do it without the Terminator franchise. Hey, it worked for the Matrix.

The third movie really get to me, because it violates everything about the first two movies. For instance, Reese states in no uncertain terms that the war was over, the humans had won... and they sent back a T-800 terminator as a last desperate effort before extermination.

The big question about T2 is how did they manage to send back an even more advanced model? T2's T-800 says he's a prototype - so this marries with the original story - plenty of 800-series terminators (being whipped out) and maybe some proto's about of one we don't know about, say 900 and 1000 series. Or was it a failure of a model in the future because the phase-plasma rifles fried them like butter? At any rate, it must have been a small almost-extinct term of terminators facing the brink of extinction who were hiding out in some secluded location trying a last, desperate act to save themselves.

So where did the T-X come from? The only explanation is if the terminators were not facing extinction after all - but if they weren't facing extinction in the first place that completely negates the necessity to put all their efforts into sending themselves back in time; as they could simply focus on the present war.

T2 takes place in 1995 - we know this because of John's DOB (which accurately occurs 9 months after the events in T1; which happen in May 1984 and John's DOB is 28 Feb 1985), and him being 10 years old. Yes this timeline is slightly contradicted with the Terminator's recollection of the events leading up to Judgement day (ie taking more then 2 years); but a clever explanation to this could be that the Terminator actually believes he's in 1993 and not 1995, after all as Reese said in T1 "they're not too bright". This also explains why the Terminator believes that Dyson is still yet to complete certain things before Judgement day. For it to actually be any earlier then this would make John younger then 10 years of age.

Now, according to this timeline Judgement day occurs on 29 Aug 1997 - ie when John is 12. Yet in T3 he's age was now 13 in T2 and he's now a young adult, and they've also altered the date of Judgement day.

So I think as far as the original story is concerned, T3 fails miserably. Let's look at shy T2 was successful... first we'll plot a basic timeline of T1:

Code:
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
          |              |                                      |              |            |
        1984           1985                                     ?              ?           2029
Terminator arrives  John born                             Rubber-skinned     T800   Terminator sent back
  to kill Sarah                                              T600's        invented    Reese sent back
                                                                       (close to 2029)   Humans win

Now T2 threatens to upset the time-line, but instead a little more is explained, so that by the end of the movie it's not upset:

Code:
                                                                          T1000 prototype
                                                                             invented
_________________________________________________________________________________|______________________
      |          |            |             |                   |          |            |
    1984        1985         1995          1997                 ?          ?           2029
Events of T1  John born  Events of T2  Judgement Day           T600      T800   Terminator sent back
                                                             invented  invented   Reese sent back
                                                                                  T1000 sent back
                                                                               Human's T800 sent back
                                                                                     Humans win

By the end of T2, although threatening to destroy everything, in the end we are left where we started. T3 does not, and cannot fit into the established timeline. T3's timeline even violates Sarah's age (she's 29 in T2; thus 18 or 19 in T1; and this would make her DOB somewhere around 1965-1966ish, and not 1959 as T3 claims. There's also another part of the timeline I haven't marked being Sarah & John at hiding before the war - this occurs between 1985 and prior to Sarah's arrest - and possibly continues from her escape in 1995-1997.

I'm left believing that the next 3 terminator movies are simply going to be made by people who have nothing better to do then to make sequels because they don't have any quality original material and are trying to ride the wave of success attributed to an established franchise. I think that they'll be as bad - or even worse then T3 was.
 

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About T2's date, there's a lot of discussion about it. Most common taken is 1995.

1995 - John was supposed to be this 10 years old kid in the movie, and the police computer lists his date of birth at February 28 1985. So 1985 + 10 = 1995.

1994 - Terminator says: "In three years Cyberdyne will become the largest
supplier of military computer systems." Judgment Day took palce at August 29th 1997. 1997 - 3 = 1994.

1994 - Terminator was send from 2029. He tells John "35 years from now you reprogrammed me to be your protector here." So 2029 - 35 = 1994.

There's only 1 decent explanation for this, and that is that's just an error. I quote:
"In T1 Reese accosts a police officer and demands to know the date. "Twelve. May. Thursday." Wrong! It is established three times that T1 happens in 1984 (title after credits in T1; Sarah's timecard in T1 read "Pay period ending 5/19/84"; and John's date of birth (2/28/1985) confirm he was conceived around May 1984). Problem is that May 12, 1984 was a Saturday. The problem probably occurred because the screenplay was written in 1983 when May 12 did fall on a Thursday.

If the events depicted in T1 had indeed transpired in 1983, John would have been born in 1984, he would have been 10 in 1994, it would be 35 years until 2029, and it clearly would be three years until 1997--the dates would work out perfectly. The basic problem was in establishing that T1 took place in 1984 instead of 1983. That is, T2 is merely being consistent with T1, which unfortunately causes further mathematical errors.
"



Future war

June 11th 2029 (date from T2 novel) - The resistance defeats SKYNET. In the heart of Cheyenne Mountain, SKYNET is destroyed. Meanwhile in Los Angeles, John and company enter the Time Displacement Complex and send back Kyle Reese. After this, John says they need to send back another one. His soldiers ask why, and John tells them that "another one" was send back to kill him as a child. One of his techs confirms 2 power breakdowns, and John and company enter the cold storage room and activate a T-800 to be send back to 1994/1995. So both T1's T-800 as T2's T-1000 were send back shortly after each other. SKYNET had however the use of the T-1000. To quote the part from the T2 novel:
"To the liquid brain, the world was a simple puzzle box of broken reality, the hard pieces easily fitting back into the river of cosmic order. Cause and effect was the closest thing to humor in a mind so alien that even SKYNET had difficulty understanding it fully. The T1000 had deduced several possible avenues of continuing the mission in the most efficient manner possible. It was methodically following one while constantly processing the others for branching opportunities. It was fully autonomous, and barely under the allegiance of its creator, SKYNET. SKYNET had hesitated before creating this latest weapon system. There were unpredictability factors related to the liquid poly-mimetic alloy's longevity and the ability to process commands without interpolating its own priorities over those of its creator. It was so volatile a construct that only in the last throes of defeat, only when it appeared that the Resistance would finally be able to mount an offensive against the inner command components of SKYNET, even threatening the Cheyenne Mountain complex itself, did SKYNET go ahead and create the T1000. Einstein once said that God didn't play dice with the universe. SKYNET had no choice..."

So SKYNET only send the T-1000 because it had no other choice left.

Also interested to read is the omitted intro, the original future war intro they had in mind when creating T2:
http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/T2- ... Scenes.txt
And if you want pics go:
http://www.hopeofthefuture.net/cuttingf ... mit04.html
and
http://www.hopeofthefuture.net/cuttingf ... mit05.html




According to the T2 novel, John was a loner in the future. A hard leader, but no wife. Nothing he would attach to, because he had to be hard. One of his guards, Fuentes, had only seen John cry once when Sarah had died in an ambush. John had told Sarah not to go, but stubborn Sarah didn't listen to John and went along with a group. In the end, they were ambushed and she was killed.
This does actually fit in with information from T1's novel, in which SKYNET had Sarah Connor's body and could analyze it (a subplot about Sarah's scar was removed from the first movie, but the Terminator would identify the right kill of Sarah Connor due a certain scar she had and that the machines had found out during the autopsy on her body in the future).
Now suddenly T3 comes up with a wife, just because they need some character to which they can explain the whole situation about the war and Judgment Day for the new audience that has not seen T1 and T2.


They changed John's age in T3 because director Mostow felt that Eddie Furlong never looked like a 10 years old kid in T2. Plus perhaps the fact that a 10 years old kid would be making out at such a young age with a general's daughter....?

Why they did change Sarah's date of birth etc. I don't know.

[btw, you should know that the Terminator 3 game even screws up more dates]



More about T3
The T-X. According to the novel, SKYNET suddenly starts to discard all of its models. Yeah I know, that's freaking weird, because we would all say: use everything you've got to your disposal. SKYNET discards all models because it's pumping out a new model: the T-X. Some soldiers get killed in what they describe that there are at least 10 T-X's (and from what I understand and remember; they were all blond females).
So SKYNET discards all units (even T-1000) to make room for the T-X, yet we would say use everything you've got because the human resistance is still running).
Yet I don't want to use the dates given in the novel. The novel really screws up some dates. They even say that the T-X was send from the year 2029, which is impossible, because the T-1000 was just the latest prototype). Anyway, going on with the info given in T3:
- John leads the resistance to victory.
- John's children will have an important role.
- John was killed in 2032 (whether this is true or a lie, I don't know, just bad writing).
So John defeats the machines, but is killed (?) in 2032 by the T-850. His children have some important role.

So all Terminator movies are in the same timeline, I would have to say that John defeats the machines in 2029, but temporarily. Some backup system of SKYNET (like a sattlelite the resistance did not know of) re-activates SKYNET and the second part of the war takes place, eventually resulting in victory for the human resistance, while John dies (or not?). So this second part of the war should end somewhere in 2032. The T-850 from T3 was send from the year 2032, and I personally believe the T-X was too.

What I find disturbing in T3 is that were are never given a new date of Judgment Day. It's always vague. Ask any fan about Judgment Day's date and they will say August 29th 1997, because that was at least a clearly given date. T3 lacks this. It's somewhere in June/July 2004/2005, but noone knows for sure.

T3 also lacks some good explanation why everything was delayed and why their actions in T2 (even Miles Dyson's death) did not result in stopping Judgment Day. According to the novel, the military (CRS) acquired the assets of backup data.



About the "new Terminator trilogy". They will most likely be some future war trilogy. It should be all about John's struggle with the machines, and not about some new Terminator model that is either protecting John or trying to kill him. Arnold Schwarzenegger is allowed to return to play his role as Terminator, but not as the leading role. The focus is on John and his fight now. Arnold can return, let him reprise his roles as T1 Terminator, T2 Terminator and T3 Terminator when they are send back or so. But not as some leading role. Please, don't let these T-800 Terminator appear in T4 already. These models were somewhere made around 2027-2029. I have a feeling that some protecting robot from 2029 or 2032 will be send back to the beginning of the war to protect John during his rise.
 

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SCC was not bad... well not too bad. Idk I found it a bit rushed. I felt like it was like one long car chase (yeah I know the movies are actually just a really long chase but this feels different). It is not a bad show, it doesn't have bad acting and the special effects are pretty cool... but it just doesn't feel like Terminator...
 

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Okay, the pilot episode of the Sarah Connor Chronicles will be changed. Thus remember that the leaked pilot is not what you are going to see on the tv.


from
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6911606.stm


Terminator school scenes revised

A US TV series based on the Terminator movies is to revamp a key storyline following the Virginia Tech massacre.
The Sarah Connor Chronicles, scheduled to begin next year, follows a mother trying to protect her son - who may be destined to save mankind.

But a scene in which the young boy is attacked in his school will be revised, TV network Fox has confirmed.

The scene was filmed before a student shot dead 32 people at Virginia Tech University in April.

The gunman, 23-year-old Cho Seung-hui, later turned his weapon on himself.

Josh Friedman, an executive producer on the Fox TV show, has defended the scenes, which see 15-year-old John Connor come under attack in his classroom.

He believed the incident was central to the show's theme, Fox Entertainment chairman Peter Liguori told the US Television Critics' Association.


"This woman is charged with protecting and preparing her son to be the future leader of the resistance," Mr Liguori said.
"The one single place a parent has to give up control of their child is school."

Mr Friedman was the first to acknowledge the scenes should be changed in the wake of the deaths in Virginia, Mr Liguori added, but he was unable to say how the story would be changed.

The producer was asked whether TV programmes should avoid this type of fictional violence, given that school shootings were a recurring problem in the US.

"Creative questions are answered on an ad hoc basis, not on a broad one, and we need to respect our audience," he replied.

The Sarah Connor Chronicles is due to begin in January 2008, with Fox hoping the programme will inherit the predominantly female audience from the hit American Idol show.

The title role has been given to British actress Lena Headey, who has previously appeared in films such as The Brothers Grimm and Ripley's Game.
 

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Here is what I expect to happen in the later episodes.

In the pilot, Sarah destroys the Terminator Cromartie and if you look carefully, you see the Terminator's head pop off. What if this head leads up to the creation of SKYNET several years later. This would also explain why the protecting Terminator Cameron does not know who build it.

Only error would be that if it turns out this way, then why does Cameron know that date it happens, but not who build it?
 

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At Fox's press tour yesterday, Fox's Chairman Peter Liguori
"confirm[ed] that the school-shooting sequence in the Sarah Connor Chronicles pilot has been excised as a result of the Virginia Tech tragedy."

Edit:
Can anyone confirm that the scene is intact on the pre-air release?
Is the changes likely to alter the story at all?

OH and:
Terminator 4 Spawns Lawsuit

The holders of the rights to Terminator 4 have sued MGM, claiming the studio is interfering with their right to negotiate for the distribution of the planned fourth installment of the highly successful series, Variety reported.

Halcyon Co. and its principals, Victor Kubicek and Derek Anderson, acquired the rights in May, including sequel rights to Terminator 2 and Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines and a script by T3 writers John Brancato and Michael Ferris, with plans to launch a big-budget sequel.

According to the complaint filed in L.A. Superior Court on July 18, MGM claimed it had acquired an exclusive 30-day negotiation window for T4 in the 1990s Orion Pictures bankruptcy. T Asset, the plaintiff and Halcyon's subsidiary, did not concede MGM's rights but began negotiations in May over distribution. T Asset claims MGM's exclusive window is now over, despite MGM's claims in the media that it has the right to distribute T4. The suit seeks a declaration and injunctive relief.

Dare we hope this might kill the project?
 

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DoctorM said:
At Fox's press tour yesterday, Fox's Chairman Peter Liguori
"confirm[ed] that the school-shooting sequence in the Sarah Connor Chronicles pilot has been excised as a result of the Virginia Tech tragedy."

Edit:
Can anyone confirm that the scene is intact on the pre-air release?
Is the changes likely to alter the story at all?
The pre-air leaked pilot has the original school shooting scene, so download if you can, because the tv will have something else.


DoctorM said:
OH and:
Terminator 4 Spawns Lawsuit

The holders of the rights to Terminator 4 have sued MGM, claiming the studio is interfering with their right to negotiate for the distribution of the planned fourth installment of the highly successful series, Variety reported.

Halcyon Co. and its principals, Victor Kubicek and Derek Anderson, acquired the rights in May, including sequel rights to Terminator 2 and Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines and a script by T3 writers John Brancato and Michael Ferris, with plans to launch a big-budget sequel.

According to the complaint filed in L.A. Superior Court on July 18, MGM claimed it had acquired an exclusive 30-day negotiation window for T4 in the 1990s Orion Pictures bankruptcy. T Asset, the plaintiff and Halcyon's subsidiary, did not concede MGM's rights but began negotiations in May over distribution. T Asset claims MGM's exclusive window is now over, despite MGM's claims in the media that it has the right to distribute T4. The suit seeks a declaration and injunctive relief.

Dare we hope this might kill the project?
You mean kill off T4? I hope not. T4, T5, T6... I'm game. Just hope they will not screw it up.
 
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