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TM2YC said:Superman: The Movie (1978)
I haven't seen this all the way through for ages, this time I went for the Theatrical Cut. Even in that shorter version, wow does this feel slow and dated
Gaith said:it's a gripping example of what I like to call a "process movie," ....HBO's Florida 2000 election drama Recount
TM2YC said:Superman: The Movie
wow does this feel slow and dated
The humour is often goofy and misjudged
campy Gene Hack(man) and his two painfully unfunny sidekicks
You can (ALMOST) believe that nobody notices they are the same person because Reeve shape-shifts his body between the two.
jrWHAG42 said:We can make logical assumptions, but there's no way to prove for sure that you can't reverse time by flying around the earth unless it's actually tested.
Gaith said:^ Could have sworn I heard it from something on the Donner cut of II dvd or online news source, but Googling around reveals only uncertainty. Oh, well. Amounts to the same thing, really.
jrWHAG42 said:We can make logical assumptions, but there's no way to prove for sure that you can't reverse time by flying around the earth unless it's actually tested.
Also, in a movie where a guy can fly, you're worried about realism?
mnkykungfu said:Okay, now I guess this may fall into personal choice. I've heard something like this argument whenever I criticize bad sci-fi, fantasy, superhero, horror, etc. It's always like:
-If the cars are coming to life, how do you know simple mechanical tools can't also come to life?! (Maximum Overdrive)
-If they can do impossible flying spin kicks, who's to say they can't learn how to turn into mystical dragons? (Mortal Kombat: Annihilation)
-If a serial killer can invade people's dreams, who's to say the family's pet bird wouldn't turn murderous and then explode? (Nightmare on Elm Street 2)
-If alien metal landed on Earth in only one place and it absorbs kinetic energy, who's to say it doesn't also heal any wound, give people a genius understanding of how to invent new tech, make them incredibly rich despite zero trade or production, and also become sharp enough to pierce any normal metal? (Black Panther)
So, here's my take on it as an audience member: throw me a bone, writers. I'm on your side. I came to the movie to get wrapped up in a story. I'm with you, just don't lose me. If the writers/director just lays a little groundwork to build that world and show how X happened, I'm on board. If they establish the rules of their universe and this is just a variation of that, I'll go along for that ride. If their premise is about one thing, but suddenly something incredible but unrelated is thrown on top with no explanation? They lost me. Especially if it's a deus ex machina resolution to some plot point they've written themselves into a corner on. Superman's unexplained time-travelling ability falls into that category for me. Sorry to shit on a beloved franchise! That's just my take.
jrWHAG42 said:I was partially joking, but I appreciate you taking the time to answer seriously. Your last explanation is actually really interesting to read, and I think I may agree.
Gaith said:TM2YC said:Superman: The Movie (1978)
I haven't seen this all the way through for ages, this time I went for the Theatrical Cut. Even in that shorter version, wow does this feel slow and dated
I get the nostalgia for this movie, but, oh boy, do I not get the unvarnished veneration. It is dull as dishwater at least half the time. As I first said years and years ago, I'd be interested in seeing a focused fan edit of the movie: no Zod prologue, maybe no pre-destruction Krypton stuff at all, a bare minimum of Lex+Otis hijinks, and maybe even no climactic time reversal? Because I agree that Reeve and the score are great. (Kidder... is also there.)
Masirimso17 said:Gaith, have you seen the @"musiced921" Superman: Up Up and Away Edition? It basically covers everything you described and it's awesome.
Masirimso17 said:To be honest if they made it so that his selfish actions is what caused Zod and co. to be released from the Phantom Zone (as they originally planned) and they made it apparent that Superman does not turn the world back, but instead his anger and adrenaline allows him to fly so fast he breaks the time barrier (and that he can't do that under normal circumstances or something) it could have worked.
mnkykungfu said:Masirimso17 said:To be honest if they made it so that his selfish actions is what caused Zod and co. to be released from the Phantom Zone (as they originally planned) and they made it apparent that Superman does not turn the world back, but instead his anger and adrenaline allows him to fly so fast he breaks the time barrier (and that he can't do that under normal circumstances or something) it could have worked.
The problem with this is (and please do correct me if I'm wrong) that Superman goes back and saves Lois. Okay, but now that still leaves a missile flying towards devastation, right? Now, you may say "No, but there are now 2 Supermans (men?) existing at that same time, and the original already did what he did". Ugh, okay, so this gets super into the mechanics of time-travel then, but no matter which methodology you use, it's super messy.
Endgame/Source Code theory: this is now an alternate reality. Real Lois still died.
TimeCrimes/Interstellar theory: everything that will happen has happened already, i.e. we should've never seen Lois die at all.
Back to the Future theory: unfortunately disproven by both general relativity and quantum mechanics, but let's assume that Superman was somehow going back to his own past to make a new one. In that case, events would unfold exactly as before, meaning there is still a missile for Superman to stop in order to avoid an earthquake, and avoid having to save Jimmy and Lois.
The only one that possibly works is that Superman actually flew faster than light, resulting in him being in an alternate reality from now on, oh, and in the past? We see him talk to a very alive and safe Lois and Jimmy. Jimmy talks about Superman saving him and Lois complains about earthquakes. So apparently Superman didn't stop the other missile, just the quake wasn't as bad in this reality because there is no crevasse swallowing up Lois' car.
The time-travelling theory just doesn't hold up. In fact, if you listen to commentary tracks on the dvds, it's implied that Supes is making the world go back in time, not himself. Which apparently affects the tectonic plates? Ugh. It's just a mess of an ending.