Read BEFORE posting Trades & Request
Nic said:@"KingoftheGundam79", this is not a spoiler thread. Remove that part about Tony at the end out of respect for those who havn't seen it yet (like me).
revel911 said:Keaton makes hands down the best villain (minus maybe Tom Hiddleston) that has been seen in the MCU.
You actually said that a Spiderman movie should be a PSA for building up a resume? What, seriously? Nooooo! There's more to life than that! Life is not about getting good grades and engaging in suitable extra-curricular activities so that you can get a job in middle management somewhere. Blergh.Nic said:Homecoming's central drive is "will Peter get a job being an Avenger?" It's not bad, but the film never heightens up how important it is for young people to build up resumes as soon as they can to provide for a better future. More scenes establishing how getting to work with Tony Stark would set him and Aunt May for life would have been a great development.
dangermouse said:You actually said that a Spiderman movie should be a PSA for building up a resume? What, seriously? Nooooo! There's more to life than that! Life is not about getting good grades and engaging in suitable extra-curricular activities so that you can get a job in middle management somewhere. Blergh.
I loved the diverse cast of the movie
Masirimso17 said:Everything interesting introduced in Civil War is tossed away here. What about the fact that Peter was being manipulated by Tony in Civil War (cuz that totally was not just shoehorned in there, right?) What about the accords and how it affects Peter as well? Maybe driving a wedge between them?
I would have loved to see a...character story that explores the morals of Peter and Tony, exploring Tony that he might have manipulated Peter, but the motivation for doing this is so that he can see Peter as a son, and try to make him better than he ever was. Peter could see Tony as a father figure but learn he's not perfect etc. Confronting him about the accords, manipulating him, etc. Important stuff from the Civil War comic story that couldn't be included in Captain America: Civil War due to time constraints, shoehorning Spider-Man in (despite how great it worked) and the focus not being on them. Peter and Tony would have a great father-son dynamic, both of which had less than stellar experiences with father figures in the past. The parallels are there, why won't you use them?! Something similar to what I supposed, while also incorporating what worked in Homecoming, like the high school element, coming of age, and the villain, would make a perfect continuation to Civil War.
The actual story [is] too basic, generic and just underwhelming. One big problem I had with Peter's development on its own, is the lack of acknowledgement for Uncle Ben and the responsibility message. It is clear that what the movie's doing is basically the responsibility message. It's just that the film is trying so hard to be different that they completely ignore those and try to tell it their own way. Problem is that [the filmmakers] create a different reason for Peter's morality.
They try to use Tony's words to motivate Peter, to give him the responsibility to take on Vulture. This doesn't work because Tony himself didn't want Peter to take on the Vulture. So Peter chases Vulture down inspired by Tony's words... The same person that told him not to chase Vulture down. "If you're nothing without the suit, then you shouldn't have it" is...used to compensate for the responsibility line I guess, but it doesn't work because these words have nothing to do with Peter's responsibility. Nothing else is emphasized that shows Peter a reason to chase down Vulture. We all know the real reason he does it, but within this movie it's never emphasized and it just comes off like Peter wants to prove himself still, and continues to endanger lives because of it.What if the plane crashed, Vulture escapes, maybe people are injured or even dead, and Tony is pissed? I mean, why did Tony change his mind? Just because Vulture is captured?
Of course it's meant to be like; Peter impresses Tony in a different way than intended before. He proves to him that he does what he does because he believes it's the right thing, because with great power comes great responsibility. Tony understands and sees Peter has matured, emphasized as well when he decides to be a "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man". Notice what I've bolded is completely unclear. There is a clear difference between subtle and just non-existant. And that's the problem. There is no seal to Peter's character development. The same mistake was made with Amazing Spider-Man 1 where there is no seal to Peter realizing that hunting the person who killed Uncle Ben isn't heroic, and truly becoming the Spider-Man by saving the people in the bridge. There should have been something, even as simple as ripping the picture of the guy who killed Uncle Ben. But it was unclear, therefore it comes off as abandoned. It's the same here. Because there is no guilt, because there is no responsibility lesson, because there is no Uncle Ben, there is no seal to Peter's development. And the compensation doesn't work.
Michael Keaton as the Vulture was surprisingly good. He was cold, menacing, has good motivations. I was surprised to see him as the father of Liz Allen... It worked very well, though, because...it gives him a great motivation with family that makes us truly understand what he's going through. His backstory with being screwed over by higher authorities and Stark, and his profession as a scavenger, helps very much as well.
Masirimso17 said:Great ideas Nic, I completely agree.