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2.0 to 5.1 question for you guys

dark jedi

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OK I have ADM's input on this,but just in case I cannot figure this out,how are you guys doing this,becasue we all know that the deleted,extended secens are almost NEVER 5.1,so we have to make them 5.1 so they mesh with the original,so how are you guys doing this?

please go in depth on the explanations LOL

thanks for any and all help

DJ
 

JasonN

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Doom9 has a thread listing many different methods to creating 5.1 surround from 2.0 stereo: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=83752

Honestly, though, I don't think upconverting a 2.0 mix to 5.1 works really well in practice: for the edits I've seen that do this, more often then not, the 5.1 ends up sounding very"echo-y". (very unsatisfying and tends to give me headaches when I listen to it :| )
 

boon23

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It works really well with vegas. The upconverting is flawless and simply makes it more attractive to listen to when you have a surround system.
 

dark jedi

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yes I looked at that link and it all looks like rocket science to me,and yes I agree,if you let Vegas do it it does sound kind of echoey,but ADM does it and it sounds damn good,I just HOPE I can figure it out,I am sure I will be emailing him everyday LOL.

thank you very much for the response though.
 

DoctorM

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The Doom9 thread is in dire need of an update.

Womble Video Wizard DVD does it automatically as well... your mileage may vary.

Stereo clips are the easiest to work with since there's usually some spatialization already present.

When I did L.A. Story all of the deleted footage was mono.
I used the graphedit method and created custom matrices (in ffdshow) and switched around between the different configurations of DPLII and DTS Neo:6 upmixers.

It gave me flexibility when I wanted the sound in the center channel, the front three or to surround the soundfield completely (sometimes all 3 in the same scene). (I also dropped in some surround audio effects I found in other parts of the movie and online).

Anyway... it all depends on what you start with and where you want to go.
The Doom9 guide mentions that ffdshow doesn't have the ability to save directly to dd5.1. This isn't true, that feature was added a couple years ago.

Using GraphEdit you can connect your file to a multichannel decoder (I used PowerDVD's not Intervideo's) and then go right to ffdshow which has an option to output ac3 to file.

Really there's a pressing need for something automated and tweakable that does this since it's complicated as all heck.

Wasn't there another similar thread here before?
 

Ghostcut

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For scenes with dialogue only (no music, minimal sound effects) I take sound effects from the Freesound project (http://freesound.iua.upf.edu) and use them to rebuild the mix into 5.1.
 

dark jedi

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DoctorM said:
The Doom9 thread is in dire need of an update.

Womble Video Wizard DVD does it automatically as well... your mileage may vary.

Stereo clips are the easiest to work with since there's usually some spatialization already present.

When I did L.A. Story all of the deleted footage was mono.
I used the graphedit method and created custom matrices (in ffdshow) and switched around between the different configurations of DPLII and DTS Neo:6 upmixers.

It gave me flexibility when I wanted the sound in the center channel, the front three or to surround the soundfield completely (sometimes all 3 in the same scene). (I also dropped in some surround audio effects I found in other parts of the movie and online).

Anyway... it all depends on what you start with and where you want to go.
The Doom9 guide mentions that ffdshow doesn't have the ability to save directly to dd5.1. This isn't true, that feature was added a couple years ago.

Using GraphEdit you can connect your file to a multichannel decoder (I used PowerDVD's not Intervideo's) and then go right to ffdshow which has an option to output ac3 to file.

Really there's a pressing need for something automated and tweakable that does this since it's complicated as all heck.

Wasn't there another similar thread here before?

Doctor M,
could you give me an example of how to do this with PowerDVD,I tried to use the link ADM provided in his guide and installed InterVideo,but when I open Graphedit to do as the guide suggests,the InterVideo audio processor FX filter is not listed.
I think I can get the video down pretty good,it is just the damn sound that seems a pain in the ass.

Also you say that Womble Video Wizard DVD does it automatically, but that your mileage may vary,what does this mean?

if you could how does Womble make 5.1,if most of the clips ar 5.1 and some scenes are 2.0 when you save your project does it just do it automatically?

thanks guys

DJ
 

sithlord

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Hi there.

Mostly I use "V.I Stereo to 5.1 Converter", a VST plugin.
It works fine for me, but I am not exactly a professional...
 

dark jedi

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sorry if I sound dumb,but what is a vst plugin?
what is it for?
and where can it be found?

thanks
 

DoctorM

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In Womble when you are outputting the final project, go to the audio tab and check 5.1.

For using PowerDVD, it's just the same as the GraphEdit version with the Intervideo decoder.
If you have PowerDVD installed, when the directions tell you to use the Intervideo FX filter, use "Cyberlink Audio Effect (PDVD7)".
Once you have it on your graph, right click/properties and you can tweak a butt load of options.
 

sithlord

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A VST is a sound effect plugin that works with several programs like Audacity, Sound Forge and Vegas.

V.I Stereo to 5.1 Converter simply does what is says, but mostly i use the fLfR, CLFE and sLsR part of the plugin to separate audio into other channels.
A very nice and easy tool when you start to understand it.

http://www.stevethomson.ca/vi/
 

DoctorM

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I'm curious is the upmixing based on a generic matrix, DPL2, etc?

Edit: Just checked the link... no it's some generic cludge.
It even describes movie mode as moving "some" dialog to the center channel.
That's not very helpful.
 

Kevinicus

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I'd like to bump this thread cause I'm curious what programs and methods you guys are using to do conversion to 5.1

I haven't had to do this in my previous edits, but will need to in the near future.
 

Kal-El

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Same here, sounds interesting for future use.
 

Hymie

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sithlord said:
Bringing this thread to life again...

Has anyone here tried TFM Audio Tool for upmixing stereo to 5.1?

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TFM_Audio_Tool

Just tried and McAffee detected a Trojan. Looked too good to be true.

Are there any other tools similar to this or is the guide already posted the best option, but I'm working on a Never Say Never Again edit and need to replace a bunch of music, including the title song, and obviously all I have is mp3.
 

geminigod

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Depends, what is your goal? Most receivers & software can surround mix on the fly from a stereo audio track. it is also pretty easy to make your own 5.1 track with an editing program. However creating a proper discrete 5.1 mix for true surround sound is another matter and no software will achieve that. Only hard manual labor.
 

geminigod

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To expound on this thread a little more, I recently converted a 2.0 deleted scene to 5.1 for the first time. It definitely required some work to get the levels balanced properly and think through how the sound should be in each shot, but it was kinda fun in a geeky way. All that I used to accomplish this was Sony Vegas Pro (and a 5.1 speaker setup). I created a new audio track with all 5 speakers activated, and then I dropped my 2.0 audio onto the new track. Then I used Vegas's surround panner and keyframing audio envelope to pan the audio between the speakers on the fly. Unfortunately the audio panning envelope isn't as intuitive to work with as the other envelopes in Vegas, so it is a little bit of a hassle.
 

geminigod

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emanswfan said:
5.1 upmixing from mono and stereo is coming built-in to the new version of Adobe Audition at the Creative Cloud.
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/creative-...er-and-reversioning-stereo-and-mono-for-51-2/

I really like how much manual control you can have over the process, and will make it easier and cheaper to get a very high quality upmix.

Really annoying me for some reason that he is saying "five dot one."

What are the odds that vocal lifter feature will actually work...
 
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