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Speculating on Heath Ledger and The Dark Knight Rises

Bookbase

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First-time poster here!

Has anyone ever wondered what role The Joker could have played in The Dark Knight Rises if it were not for Mr. Ledger's unfortunate departure? I know the movie was great despite absolutely no mention of him story-wise, yet one can't help but wonder...
 

WyndorfDave

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I always felt that The Joker might have been freed by The L.O.S. and helped them to hold Gotham hostage and bankrupt Bruce. Perhaps he would have sent in Bane to weaken Batman before he could humiliate him. Ledgers Performance will be forever in my mind. I cannot think of a better written or acted villain that made me believe like he did. Also welcome to the site!
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Uncanny Antman

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I think he would have only had a small cameo...playing judge rather than Scarecrow doing it.
 

TM2YC

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I suspect potentially there would have been no TDKR...

Such was the success of TDK that the studio would have insisted on The Joker being the focus of part 3. Meaning that Nolan would've been unlikely to come back as it would've been a boring cookie cutter cash in. This could have taken David S. Goyer, Jonathen Nolan and Wally Pfister out too. Maybe even Christian Bale would've turned a 3rd outing down without Nolan.

Ledger's sad absence meant they had to raise their game generally and come up with a new villain that topped The Joker. Tom Hardy's Bane didn't qute manage that but it came damned close... that voice is iconic now. It's very possible that with Ledger in the third film it could've been as bad as 'Batman & Robin'.;-)
 

Sunarep

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TM2YC said:
I suspect potentially there would have been no TDKR...

Such was the success of TDK that the studio would have insisted on The Joker being the focus of part 3. Meaning that Nolan would've been unlikely to come back as it would've been a boring cookie cutter cash in. This could have taken David S. Goyer, Jonathen Nolan and Wally Pfister out too. Maybe even Christian Bale would've turned a 3rd outing down without Nolan.

Ledger's sad absence meant they had to raise their game generally and come up with a new villain that topped The Joker. Tom Hardy's Bane didn't qute manage that but it came damned close... that voice is iconic now. It's very possible that with Ledger in the third film it could've been as bad as 'Batman & Robin'.;-)

After the Dark Knight I speculated that Dark Knight 2 would be a new villain (I thought of Black Mask) who would target Bruce Wayne and not the batman so that the villain would attack differently to the joker to avoid comparisions. And then I imagined Joker as a Hannibal Lecter guy getting interrogated by Batman to find out more about the new villain and how to beat him. The Joker would just sit in his cell and slowly peel off batman's layers while black mask would destroy Bruce Wayne so that at the end Bruce Wayne and the Batman both overcame their enemy.

Looking at the structure of The Dark Knight Rises I think it would have been amazing had the Joker volunteered to join Bruce Wayne in the prison as the ultimate torture. The joker would be Bruce's cell neighbor and would be super excited that they now finally were locked up together. Imo it would have been a good way to bring back the joker without overshadowing Bane and it would have made the prison that much tougher for Bruce Wayne.
 

Bookbase

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These are great opinions; Sunarep's idea of Joker as a "Dr. Lecter"-type character is especially potent. However, TM2YC's statement makes the truth obvious - we have no idea how TDKR would have been had Ledger still have been alive (short of asking Nolan himself).

Personally, I think that if that were the case, and if it were the same TDKR story, then perhaps Joker would have been kept nice and safe in the worst dungeon of Arkham until Bane invades and personally frees him (a little DC villain fanservice). However being the Joker, he would have just wandered within the limits of Gotham dealing the usual chaos for the fun of it, especially if he knew they were doomed, anyway (perhaps a Scene with Catwoman defending that little kid from him instead of a simple goon).

Finally, with the city saved and Mr. Bad Throw-In Character Blake inheriting the Bat-mantle, the last teasing hint is of Joker at large again, and any future plot would involve Blake's (as Batman) eternal war with Joker, as a last tribute to the canon comic's relationship. Either all this, or Nolan's realism just forces Joker to rot in Arkham and make up for comic! Joker's absurd avoidance of justice.

Would anyone think this a good alternate plot for Dark Knight 3? Perhaps a possible edit?
 

Neglify

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Bookbase said:
Would anyone think this a good alternate plot for Dark Knight 3? Perhaps a possible edit?

Yeah, that's a sweet idea. No idea how it could ever be edited that way though.
 

matrixgrindhouse

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I imagine the third movie would have been completely different in every regard, with the Joker being a central figure in its plot. That said, if they had kept with the basic concept of TDKR, I think things might have worked out a bit differently. The Nolanverse's Joker is, at his core, an anarchist. Any symbol of authority or order - the police, the mayor, Batman, even the established criminal syndicates - they were his enemies. Despite Bane's pseudo-revolutionary jargon, he'd see through his facade, and strike against him as well. Think a (more) demented and (more) violent take on V for Vendetta. And, that'd put a really interesting spin on things when Batman finally made it back to Gotham: He'd find his most ruthless enemy on his side. The sheer potential of that situation is endless.
 
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