Orson Welles and I (A fanedit of 'Me and Orson Welles')

I've been discussing my thoughts on this project over on my ideas thread. Here is the edited highlights to get anybody who is interested up to speed...

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TM2YC said:

Following up on my thinking about an Orson Welles project, 2008's 'Me and Orson Welles' is overdue an edit. A powerhouse performance by Christian McKay as Orson (Spookily accurate at times) was sadly short changed by stuffing the film with a bland and cliched fictional character played by Zac Efron. I'd go through and remove every scene that didn't feature McKay or wasn't directly about Orson's legendary production of 'Julius Ceasar'. The film's restaging of the play itself is fantastic, so it's a shame it's buried in this lacklustre film. Maybe the edit would be only an hour long but it would be a treat for Welles fans.

Here is the trailer, converted by me into 4:3 B&W. I had to reframe every shot individually but thanks to the original film's widescreen framing being very loose the image can be cropped drastically without loosing anything important.

In an obvious move I've retitled it...

ORSON WELLES AND I

I may ditch the 4:3 and/or the B&W, not decided yet. If I can I'll also edit out Efron's name so he is just "I" like in 'Withnail and I'.

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Gaith said:

^ Good one! I made the same fan edit once... with a rented disc and the fast-forward button. That little turd would never have scored with the wondrous Claire Danes in real life!

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TM2YC said:

I've been trying to make a 'Mercury/Citizen Kane' style title card for my 'Orson Welles And I' edit...

The font I've used is quite close (Called 'Quirkus') but a font called 'Carisma Inline' would be the best match. Shame it is £40 :sad:. It's good enough I feel to create the right atmosphere.

I've had an idea to start the edit with a Newsreel of Mussolini's visit to Berlin (Or a similar news event from 1937) as I believe this was recent news just before the play was mounted. It would set the tone and the context for what follows in this film perfectly. But I'm struggling to find a newsreel of sufficent visual quality, or one that's (preferably) in English.

Like this...

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_fi.php?MediaId=200

But way better quality and downloadable.

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TM2YC said:

Having another play around with my 'Orson Welles and I' edit. Slaving over every detail of the intro to give it that vintage 'Citizen Kane' feel. Plus trying to find as much newsreel footage from 1937 as I can to cut in before the film. Been trawling through reems of clips of Mussolini, the Hindenburg Disaster and Hitler, anybody checking my YouTube watch history would think I was a nutter! :-D

I might put a trailer in front to. Possibly 'Make Way For Tommorow', as it's not only a masterpiece from 1937 but it was also one of Orson's favourite films. I believe his actual favourite was 'Le Grande Illusion', also from 1937 but a French Subtitled film Trailer would be wrong ahead of a vintage-style American movie edit like this.

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TM2YC said:

Here it is, the first 13 minutes of 'Orson Welles and I'. Apart from removing 'I's introduction I haven't started editing the actual film yet. But this is a good start...

(^ Click Vimeo button to watch in HD)

I've styled the opening after 'Citizen Kane' and used actual footage from that movie, as well as Welles' own voice.

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TM2YC said:

A teaser poster...



After a detailed re-viewing...

If like me you thought this:

was what was wrong the movie, you'd be wrong. It's actually down to this:

Almost every scene Claire Danes' character is in, is about her life, her problems, her hopes, her ambitions and barely mentions the play (Or a reference is made, but only in so far as it impacts her life). Every scene Zac Efron is in with Danes is about her but every scene he is in on his own, is about Orson and the play.

Such is her character's disconnect from the rest of the story I might be able to eliminate her entirely and then have to change almost nothing else! As I'm cutting everything not Orson/Caesar centric it all becomes clear what has to go. It's almost as if her character was added in pickups... which I know isn't the case.

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Gaith said:

Well the big revelation concerning Orson and her does catalyze the narrative climax, but it entirely falls flat because both her and Zac are utterly boring characters, and we're much happier picturing her and Welles bonking than her nearly molesting this barely legal kiddo.

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TM2YC said:

I know she does come into play at the end but I'll worry that dilemna when I come to it! ;-) I prefer to solve problems like that when my timeline crashes headlong into them :lol:

I know I set out to strip out all the non play scenes but I'm tempted to break my own rule and keep all of Zoe Kazan's scenes with 'I' as they are rather charming...

I had removed her from the introduction but now I'm tempted to put her back.

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Gaith said:

If it were me I'd say sod coherence/True Fanedit worthiness and go with your original idea of cutting absolutely everything without Welles... sometimes the best edit is not a TF. But that's just moi. ;-)

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TM2YC said:

I'll be keeping some of 'I' (A lot infact) as most of his non-Danes scenes that don't feature Welles are still about his excititment in working with Orson or the lengths he'll go to perform at The Mercury (Lying to his parents, skipping school etc) and they are all very brief linking pieces breaking up the reheasal days. Plus Welles has some great conversations with him.

I'm hoping to 'rescue' the scene where Orson is sitting on the park bench with 'I'. Since it's originally focused around Orson saying sorry for for his betrayal (That won't take place in this edit) it's gonna take some major overhauling. Ideally I want to use it somewhere earlier as it nicely portrays a vulnerable pre-opening-night Orson.

Strangely enough I'm preparing a DVD extra first...

...picking the single best minute from each of his films was fun!

Coming soon to a Vimeo stream near you! ;-)

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That's the story so far, on with the show and on with the edit...

TM2YC said:

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I think there's a problem with the "I" - because it's just the line and missing the head and foot (don't know what else to call it, lol), it sort of looks like a design element instead of the letter.

TV's Frink said:

I think there's a problem with the "I" - because it's just the line and missing the head and foot (don't know what else to call it, lol), it sort of looks like a design element instead of the letter.

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so, a serif "I"

TV's Frink said:

I think there's a problem with the "I" - because it's just the line and missing the head and foot (don't know what else to call it, lol), it sort of looks like a design element instead of the letter.

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That's the fixed version! Rogue-theX found the original poster even more illegible.

I'll have a go at a 3rd version 'til it reads better.

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Here is the 'Orson Welles Filmography' retrospective as promised.

I've picked my single favourite minute from each of his 12 films (There are other movies beyond that which are variously unfinished and unreleased for legal reasons). All the clips are taken from the best possible sources currently available. But since his filmography has been quite badly treated only 3 films have been given a proper HD Blu-Ray release and restoration; 'Citizen Kane', 'Touch Of Evil' and 'The Trial'. The SD DVDs of 'The Magnificent Ambersons', 'Mr Arkadin' and 'For For Fake' are also very good. The other 6 vary in quality so I've sharpened and adjusted contrast to try and compensate somewhat.


(^ Click Vimeo button to watch in HD)

^ They are the moments that I think have the most impact but others may have their own personnal favourites. I've included a guide/advert to buying the best quality versions of his films at the end.

ThrowgnCpr said:

so, a serif "I"

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Frink: Sans knowledge.

Dare: four months to make this edit. No more, no less.

Starting next week.

TM2YC said:

That's the fixed version! Rogue-theX found the original poster even more illegible.

I'll have a go at a 3rd version 'til it reads better.

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One easy thing to help would be to use the same colour for "Orson Welles & I" - this would help to unify the four words.

Currently trying to change this scene of 'Orson saying sorry to 'I' and 'I' being pissed off with him'...



...to a scene about 'Orson giving 'I' a fatherly talk to overcome his stange fright'.

It sounds crazy but I think it can be done... the editing is like pulling teeth though.

I thought removing Claire Danes entirely from this scene...



...might be impossible but I just did it and not one line of the converstion between Orson and 'I' had to be cut to achieve it.

Okay here is the first test of part of this edit (Not including the earlier intro test, which I'm altering anyway). This video is showing the removal of Claire Danes and her accompanying subplot and the refocusing on Welles, the play and the impact of both on our "narrator".

The clip is 10 minutes long but the edits don't start until halfway through (At 4.59 to be exact). From then on, there is an average of one edit every 10 seconds taking that portion of the film from 11 minutes down to 5 minutes. I've included the first 5 minutes to add some context and to further test out the look of the aged B&W film look. Most of the shots for the second 5 minutes have either been cut, recut, moved, redubbed or reused. It's probably the most heavy bit of editing I've done so far...


(^ Click the Vimeo button to watch in HD)

I've uploaded the original 11 minutes so you can see what was taken out...


Let me know what you think.

btw I'm torn between colour and B&W now. I intended to go with B&W because young Orson was never seen in colour, so I felt it would help with the realism. However the original film's rich autumnal cinematography is beautiful IMO and it's a shame to let it go.

I personally love the aged B&W look (with the 4:3 aspect ratio), and would take it over the color 2:35:1 for this movie any day, as it makes the film look more realistic and professional to me. The only thing I would add to the aged effect is motion blur (an older film didn't have such crisp motion) prior to the other video filters if you know how to do that properly. And certainly, great editing there!

emanswfan said:

I personally love the aged B&W look (with the 4:3 aspect ratio), and would take it over the color 2:35:1 for this movie any day, as it makes the film look more realistic and professional to me. The only thing I would add to the aged effect is motion blur (an older film didn't have such crisp motion) prior to the other video filters if you know how to do that properly. And certainly, great editing there!

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Thanks!

I think I'm going to take out the flicker effect as it's a bit distracting I feel. I did the trailer at 4:3 but I decided not to use that for the actual film, because the idea is to concentrate on and show off Orson's play. So cropping out half the image of the play seemed counter productive, even though it would've been a nice stylistic choice. For example...



...^ the whole impact and meaning of the staging is gone.

I've been looking at title cards for the end to compare the film actors with the real stage cast and crew...





I'll do these for every real life person featured and then regular credits for the rest. As you can see I'm trying to find images that echo each other.

I'm considering two edits of this now.

One the already planned 90 minute 'Orson Welles & I', a young actors window into the making of Welles' 'Caesar'. In black and white and with a fully fleshed out narrative.



The second a much shorter cut in colour (As a DVD extra) called 'Julius Caesar Reheased'*. I would strip the film down to just the scenes within the Mercury Theatre rearranged in the order of the play. So we would be cutting back and forth between rehearsal, dress rehearsal, preview and opening night footage. I would also include the backstage dramas relating to the play. I think it should be a unique experience. I'd guess it would be around 30 minutes maybe a little more.

* Named in honour of Welles' acclaimed play 'Moby Dick Rehearsed'.

Sounds cool. I should probably watch this movie.

Looking forward to it!

^ Thanks people!

I've recut the ending:
- Removing the falling out with Welles, entirely cutting Claire Danes and removing Efron's classroom Shakespeare recital scene etc etc.
- Adding new title cards with photos of the real people, layering on the 'Citizen Kane' end-title and now Welles' first film plays next to credits. It's a silent short called 'The Hearts Of Age' featuring Larry Marotta's beautiful specially composed folk-guitar soundtrack.

The ending is now about the impact Welles' play has had on Efron's character... rather than being about the impact of Danes and Welles being dicks to him


(^ Click to watch in HD)

Lots of cuts again. Hope they all seem smooth enough.

No joke, that black and white is just excellently done, very sexy!

Some feedback/ideas:

4:01, 4:07, 4:31, 6:23: these shots could use some more work compared to the rest, they are somehow transparent that it wasn't shot in black and white, IMO.

7:51, hang on to THE END a couple seconds longer so it lingers after the footage has faded to black, though if this were my edit I'd make a deco background specifically for THE END and make the text shadow move left to right underneath the actual text faking a stage light, y'know? and have that come in after the last shot has faded, no music for THE END.

Probably make the film dirt spec's more sporadic, use the same overlay you have but maybe you could see about making a script to insert a selectable amount black frames into the film dirt overlay so that a spec of dirt will happen less often (assuming you are using an overlay).

Add some subtle gate weave for the credits.

Make the guitar song sound like it's sourced from a '78 record.

Have the old movie slowly move into the center of the frame after the credits are done.



That black and white really is great.

Rogue-theX said:

No joke, that black and white is just excellently done, very sexy!

Some feedback/ideas:

4:01, 4:07, 4:31, 6:23: these shots could use some more work compared to the rest, they are somehow transparent that it wasn't shot in black and white, IMO.

7:51, hang on to THE END a couple seconds longer so it lingers after the footage has faded to black, though if this were my edit I'd make a deco background specifically for THE END and make the text shadow move left to right underneath the actual text faking a stage light, y'know? and have that come in after the last shot has faded, no music for THE END.

Probably make the film dirt spec's more sporadic, use the same overlay you have but maybe you could see about making a script to insert a selectable amount black frames into the film dirt overlay so that a spec of dirt will happen less often (assuming you are using an overlay).

Add some subtle gate weave for the credits.

Make the guitar song sound like it's sourced from a '78 record.

Have the old movie slowly move into the center of the frame after the credits are done.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback

Not sure what you are seeing/not-seeing at 4:01, 4:07, 4:31, 6:23. They seem the same or similar to everything else to me. Do mean more contrast, too light etc?

Re the ending card. I agree it doesn't stay long enough. I will fix that. The moving shadow idea is a nice one, haven't a clue how to do it but I'll try.

The film dirt I'm adding is a automatic filter. I can increase or reduce the frequency of it's occurance. I'll think about decreasing it. I wanted it to be there but not to be a distraction.

As for the 'gate weave'. I tried that already but it felt to distracting. Maybe just for the credits.

Haven't got a clue how to make the 'Hearts Of Age' soundtrack sound like a 78. But I was browsing Orson Welles related music for credits possibilities and found this guy playing a 78 record by the 'Welles Jazz Band' called 'Tiger Rag'. It was from a 1944 Welles show but it was largelyKid Ory's band I believe. Due to wartime shortages the record is etched onto glass!



^ Amazing toe-tapping stuff.

I'm still thinking about what to do with the short film over running the credits. I'll be adding a few credits of my own but not that length! One option was to move it slowly to the center (Your suggestion and my preference), a hard cut to the center, an early fade out (Least favourite) or think of something else fun to 'project' onto the right hand side. We'll see.

Thanks again for the feedback.



^ Said band recording for Welles.

Rogue-theX said:

7:51, hang on to THE END a couple seconds longer so it lingers after the footage has faded to black... and make the text shadow move left to right underneath the actual text faking a stage light, y'know? and have that come in after the last shot has faded, no music for THE END.

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Kinda like this?


^ Tried to mimic the direction of the sunlight

Not sure what you are seeing/not-seeing at 4:01, 4:07, 4:31, 6:23. They seem the same or similar to everything else to me. Do mean more contrast, too light etc?

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Yeah maybe too light, it's hard to explain. Maybe you could try a bit more grain for those shots, but if your allready happy you could leave it, the rest is so damn good!

The film dirt I'm adding is a automatic filter. I can increase or reduce the frequency of it's occurance. I'll think about decreasing it. I wanted it to be there but not to be a distraction.

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I was just reminded of Young Frankenstein, it seems to look a lot like that, like the dvd anyways, and I figure there might not be as much dirt if this were the real thing (but its extremely convincing already).

As for the 'gate weave'. I tried that already but it felt to distracting. Maybe just for the credits.

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How did you do it before? I use virtualdub's deshaker tool and run a bit of looped footage, sometimes an old film logo though usually the rated R logo from the end of die hard, and let it do its thing for pass one then switch it to pass two and load the footage that I want to add the gate weave to, you could give that a try. If the effect is too strong you can add virtualdubs built in temporal smoother or motion blur filters BEFORE the deshaker filter for pass one to make it smoother.

Haven't got a clue how to make the 'Hearts Of Age' soundtrack sound like a 78. But I was browsing Orson Welles related music for credits possibilities and found this guy playing a 78 record by the 'Welles Jazz Band' called 'Tiger Rag'. It was from a 1944 Welles show but it was largelyKid Ory's band I believe. Due to wartime shortages the record is etched onto glass!

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(not sure why part is bolded so ignore the bolded and read as usual) That sounds pretty decent.

Great job on The End title! I think the shadow would move a bit more 'up' than as it is now, cool effect, like the sun is going down on the movie, cool!

Rogue-theX said:

Great job on The End title! I think the shadow would move a bit more 'up' than as it is now, cool effect, like the sun is going down on the movie, cool!

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I think I've got this perfected now.

I've softened the hard edges round the end title a little and redone the shadow so it goes in the same direction as the shadows from the trees. I've also adjusted the length of time the title is on screen and added a subtle frame wobble to everything. After that finishes there is a test of the short film recentering after the credits finish...


(^ Click to watch in HD)