SW - Star Wars

Moe_Syzlak said:

The only way for Star Wars to be successful moving forward, IMO, is to tell good stories in this universe that don’t rely on the OT. Scratch that, it can and should rely on the OT style of storytelling. Simple characters and broad themes. But those have to progress.

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Agreed wholeheartedly. One of the reasons I love The Mandalorian so much is that it feels like the old EU stories to me in two ways, and differs in one:

-Uses the post-OT galaxy as a setpiece, not a focus
-Nails the mix of seriousness and humor that the OT does so well

-Differs in that, as you pointed out, it has a great character arc and some nice themes supporting it

If they keep this up they may have found their way back to Good Star Wars.

Moe_Syzlak said:

I think there’s plenty of Star Wars fans that would be content with EU style adventures, but I don’t think there’s enough to sustain the sort of tent pole movie LFL needs to make.

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I like a lot of what you're saying, but gotta disagree here, and point to the MCU. Steve Rogers changes very little over the course of his appearances (mostly shifts in political alliances), Thor goes through a lot but remains mostly the same guy, and neither does Tony Stark really change much from the end of IM1 to Endgame, though there's a through-line of feeling an obligation to save the world that develops over the course of several films and stories. So I do think a more gradual, subtler arc for the OT heroes could have worked for big screen audiences, had the producers and actors been willing and able to invest that much time.

While I don't love what the ST did to Luke, now that it's done, I do think it's one of the trilogy's stronger points. I think TLJ took seriously the ramifications of what TFA established in its backstory, and as much as Abrams zigged back some of Johnson's zags, I think the Luke we got in TRoS is indeed the calmer, more enlightened one from the end of TLJ. So... some points for the ST there, I guess.

Gaith said:

Moe_Syzlak said:

I think there’s plenty of Star Wars fans that would be content with EU style adventures, but I don’t think there’s enough to sustain the sort of tent pole movie LFL needs to make.

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I like a lot of what you're saying, but gotta disagree here, and point to the MCU. Steve Rogers changes very little over the course of his appearances (mostly shifts in political alliances), Thor goes through a lot but remains mostly the same guy, and neither does Tony Stark really change much from the end of IM1 to Endgame, though there's a through-line of feeling an obligation to save the world that develops over the course of several films and stories. So I do think a more gradual, subtler arc for the OT heroes could have worked for big screen audiences, had the producers and actors been willing and able to invest that much time.

While I don't love what the ST did to Luke, now that it's done, I do think it's one of the trilogy's stronger points. I think TLJ took seriously the ramifications of what TFA established in its backstory, and as much as Abrams zigged back some of Johnson's zags, I think the Luke we got in TRoS is indeed the calmer, more enlightened one from the end of TLJ. So... some points for the ST there, I guess.

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Okay, well I guess I have to admit you have a point that big money can be made telling terrible stories like the MCU.

Moe_Syzlak said:

Gaith said:

Moe_Syzlak said:

I think there’s plenty of Star Wars fans that would be content with EU style adventures, but I don’t think there’s enough to sustain the sort of tent pole movie LFL needs to make.

Click to expand...

I like a lot of what you're saying, but gotta disagree here, and point to the MCU. Steve Rogers changes very little over the course of his appearances (mostly shifts in political alliances), Thor goes through a lot but remains mostly the same guy, and neither does Tony Stark really change much from the end of IM1 to Endgame, though there's a through-line of feeling an obligation to save the world that develops over the course of several films and stories. So I do think a more gradual, subtler arc for the OT heroes could have worked for big screen audiences, had the producers and actors been willing and able to invest that much time.

While I don't love what the ST did to Luke, now that it's done, I do think it's one of the trilogy's stronger points. I think TLJ took seriously the ramifications of what TFA established in its backstory, and as much as Abrams zigged back some of Johnson's zags, I think the Luke we got in TRoS is indeed the calmer, more enlightened one from the end of TLJ. So... some points for the ST there, I guess.

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Okay, well I guess I have to admit you have a point that big money can be made telling terrible stories like the MCU.

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What do you mean the MCU tells terible stories?

wilhelm scream said:

What do you mean the MCU tells terible stories?

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I mean the MCU tells terrible stories. YMMV.

^ Well, I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong, and what good would that do?

Gaith said:

^ Well, I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong, and what good would that do?

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Well they tell the same simple story over and over, movie after movie with little to no character arc and rely on the charisma of a few leading actors and whizbang CGI third acts to excite the kids. I mean what could I possibly find terible (sic) about that!?

So, question for some of the more die hard fans.  I was really blown away by The Mandalorian.  Understanding that it has a lot of connections to the various animated series, I'm curious about giving The Clone Wars a second chance.  The 2008 theatrical release was one of the most miserable movie-going experiences of my life, so it soured me on Star Wars animation for a long time.  I've heard great things over the years, so I figure maybe it's worth a second look.  I watched the first episode recommended by this official chronological order and, well...


To put it as delicately as possible - when does the show get good?

matrixgrindhouse said:

So, question for some of the more die hard fans.  I was really blown away by The Mandalorian.  Understanding that it has a lot of connections to the various animated series, I'm curious about giving The Clone Wars a second chance.  The 2008 theatrical release was one of the most miserable movie-going experiences of my life, so it soured me on Star Wars animation for a long time.  I've heard great things over the years, so I figure maybe it's worth a second look.  I watched the first episode recommended by this official chronological order and, well...


To put it as delicately as possible - when does the show get good?

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Cat and Mouse is not a very good episode. That whole string/storyline of episodes is not a good introduction to the show, in my opinion.

The show pretty much get better and better as the seasons go on - I think the risk of cancellation was causing them to work their asses off... Which is also why I think Rebels doesn't hold a candle to this show because they just don't have the same "pressure" on them, which shows with the writing, and lack of focus + clear tone that show has. I'm curious to see how the new Disney+ season will be, as there won't be that "pressure" coming from cancellation, but there certainly is some from the hype surrounding it.

This may be a "controversial" opinion, but I wouldn't recommend watching the show for the first time in the chronological way. It's one of those things that's "cool" to check out if you've seen/are familiar with the show, but not the way it was meant to be watched (like the Machete order, or watching the MCU chronologically). Even the first season, being the worst of them, is a better introduction to the series in my opinion (and certainly better than the "Cat and Mouse storyline").

But, there is a chance the show isn't for you, which I can totally understand - I didn't get why people liked this show for a long time, either. You can pretty much watch it in any order, so maybe even just Google "Best Clone Wars episodes" and try it out that way!

TVs Frink said:

I stopped caring about people whining about the OT characters in the ST a long time ago.

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macmilln said:

The show pretty much get better and better as the seasons go on - I think the risk of cancellation was causing them to work their asses off... Which is also why I think Rebels doesn't hold a candle to this show because they just don't have the same "pressure" on them, which shows with the writing, and lack of focus + clear tone that show has. I'm curious to see how the new Disney+ season will be, as there won't be that "pressure" coming from cancellation, but there certainly is some from the hype surrounding it.

This may be a "controversial" opinion, but I wouldn't recommend watching the show for the first time in the chronological way. It's one of those things that's "cool" to check out if you've seen/are familiar with the show, but not the way it was meant to be watched (like the Machete order, or watching the MCU chronologically). Even the first season, being the worst of them, is a better introduction to the series in my opinion (and certainly better than the "Cat and Mouse storyline").

But, there is a chance the show isn't for you, which I can totally understand - I didn't get why people liked this show for a long time, either. You can pretty much watch it in any order, so maybe even just Google "Best Clone Wars episodes" and try it out that way!

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 I watched the show using that chronological guide and quite enjoyed it (though I'd say it gets good, truly good, after season 2).

And I adore Rebels :heart:

Neglify said:

TVs Frink said:

I stopped caring about people whining about the OT characters in the ST a long time ago.

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EDIT

matrixgrindhouse said:

So, question for some of the more die hard fans.  I was really blown away by The Mandalorian.  Understanding that it has a lot of connections to the various animated series, I'm curious about giving The Clone Wars a second chance.  The 2008 theatrical release was one of the most miserable movie-going experiences of my life, so it soured me on Star Wars animation for a long time.  I've heard great things over the years, so I figure maybe it's worth a second look.  I watched the first episode recommended by this official chronological order and, well...


To put it as delicately as possible - when does the show get good?

Click to expand...

You might want to try watching smudger9's Clone Wars movies, which cut out the filler to focus on the better elements of the series.

Thanks for the advice, folks.  I'll dabble with a few more episodes while I'm still subscribed to Plus, see if anything strikes a chord with me.

A good read. Oh and yes it has spoilers for IX.
John Boyega's Post-Star Wars Honesty Is a Good Thing

I was thinking of re-visiting the original THRAWN trilogy....

Was FATE OF THE JEDI the last of the LEGENDS titles?  Did it conclude the Skywalker Saga?  Or was there plans for another wrap up series???

matrixgrindhouse said:

So, question for some of the more die hard fans.  I was really blown away by The Mandalorian.  Understanding that it has a lot of connections to the various animated series, I'm curious about giving The Clone Wars a second chance.  The 2008 theatrical release was one of the most miserable movie-going experiences of my life, so it soured me on Star Wars animation for a long time.  I've heard great things over the years, so I figure maybe it's worth a second look.  I watched the first episode recommended by this official chronological order and, well...


To put it as delicately as possible - when does the show get good?

Click to expand...

FULL EDIT: @"matrixgrindhouse" Google “Clone Wars Modified Chronological Order” which goes mostly chronological but with a focus on arc flow and watching the best episodes (skipping all the boring filler eps.) so some episodes are shuffled for arc flow. Mortis was moved up for HelloGreedo because he wanted to watch it before The Last Jedi, you can keep it or move it wherever you like the arc is pretty standalone.

I also recommend you skip the first arc “Ahsoka Arrives: The Battle of Christophis” as they are not good and ends with the terrible movie version. Just start with “Domino Squad”.

Season 1’s only worthwhile arcs are Malevolence and Ryloth (and retroactively Domino Squad because of the great S3 Domino Squad prequel episodes that pair with “Rookies” from S1). The modified order supports this.

bionicbob said:

I was thinking of re-visiting the original THRAWN trilogy....

Was FATE OF THE JEDI the last of the LEGENDS titles?  Did it conclude the Skywalker Saga?  Or was there plans for another wrap up series???

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Fate of the Jedi is not the last of the Legends titles, as there is a book which takes place after it (Crucible) and a full comic-book series (Legacy). There were plans for a trilogy after Crucible (Sword of the Jedi), which could happen now that Disney has started publishing new Legends content outside of updates for the Old Republic (even if it was only 1 comic-book issue).

bionicbob said:

I was thinking of re-visiting the original THRAWN trilogy....

Was FATE OF THE JEDI the last of the LEGENDS titles?  Did it conclude the Skywalker Saga?  Or was there plans for another wrap up series???

Click to expand...

As I mentioned (admittedly off-topic) in the Rise of Skywalker thread, I jumped ship after what I saw as the End of that timeline storytelling wise, The New Jedi Order series.

I read Dark Swarm and Legacy of the Force, but was unimpressed with both. At that point I assumed there was no reason to keep reading, and relatively soon thereafter heard there wouldn't be any more stories anyway. However, those who have read the later stuff, is it worth it? Is there any point in reading the end of a timeline visibly struggling with story ideas after a galaxy-spanning series like NJO?

wilhelm scream said:

Fate of the Jedi is not the last of the Legends titles, as there is a book which takes place after it (Crucible) and a full comic-book series (Legacy). There were plans for a trilogy after Crucible (Sword of the Jedi), which could happen now that Disney has started publishing new Legends content outside of updates for the Old Republic (even if it was only 1 comic-book issue).

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I was under the impression the Legends timeline was dead in the water, but that does give me some hope.

Masirimso17 said:

matrixgrindhouse said:

So, question for some of the more die hard fans.  I was really blown away by The Mandalorian.  Understanding that it has a lot of connections to the various animated series, I'm curious about giving The Clone Wars a second chance.  The 2008 theatrical release was one of the most miserable movie-going experiences of my life, so it soured me on Star Wars animation for a long time.  I've heard great things over the years, so I figure maybe it's worth a second look.  I watched the first episode recommended by this official chronological order and, well...


To put it as delicately as possible - when does the show get good?

Click to expand...

FULL EDIT: @"matrixgrindhouse" Google “Clone Wars Modified Chronological Order” which goes mostly chronological but with a focus on arc flow and watching the best episodes (skipping all the boring filler eps.) so some episodes are shuffled for arc flow. Mortis was moved up for HelloGreedo because he wanted to watch it before The Last Jedi, you can keep it or move it wherever you like the arc is pretty standalone.

I also recommend you skip the first arc “Ahsoka Arrives: The Battle of Christophis” as they are not good and ends with the terrible movie version. Just start with “Domino Squad”.

Season 1’s only worthwhile arcs are Malevolence and Ryloth (and retroactively Domino Squad because of the great S3 Domino Squad prequel episodes that pair with “Rookies” from S1). The modified order supports this.

Click to expand...

Very interesting.  Thank you.