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SW - Star Wars
(09-30-2019, 12:28 PM)Moe_Syzlak Wrote:
(09-30-2019, 12:15 PM)addiesin Wrote: I just think the amount of vitriol that comes from current-gen haters is counterproductive and silly. They will not go away though so in the very near future I think the inevitable direction this will take, from the perspective of Disney, is as follows.
(A movie is made)
"You don't like it because it's too much of the same? Ok, we'll make more, and they will be different."
(Another movie is made)
"You don't like the specific kind of differences we chose? Ok, we won't make more. This kind of publicity is bad for our brand."
(Twenty years pass, full of Marvel movies but empty of Star Wars, then an announcement is made)
"Hey we hard-rebooted it, presenting "A Star War", coming Christmas 2040, with Seth Rogen as the Dark Father and James Franco as Obi Kenobi. This time there are two Death Stars in one!"

I'm a superhero movie person, not really a Star Wars movie person. If they stopped, I wouldn't mind. But I think SW fans would. I think the reaction has been really overblown, and its effects will not be helpful to the franchise overall.

I know a band that is very successful and have a rabid fan base. I actually knew them way before they were famous and my band used to play the same circuit back in the 80s. Contrary to popular belief, this band’s fans can be incredibly critical of the band they purport to love. I see a lot of similarities between their fan base and the Star Wars fan base. But the band has a very healthy attitude about it. They basically say it’s great to have created something that inspires so much passion. People aren’t going to like everything but at least they care enough to be passionate in their dislike. But they have the attitude that they are going to just keep doing what they love and try to do the best possible work they can. Listening to and taking creative cues from the fan base is the worst thing you can do. I’d imagine the Star Wars creatives feel very much the same way. At least I hope they do.

 [Image: 6f5f5129e66545d5b86d1889478b4fc1.jpg]

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Aw man, I wish I had Jizz-Wailing friends!
Mega Man is best game. 
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(09-30-2019, 02:12 PM)TM2YC Wrote:  [Image: 6f5f5129e66545d5b86d1889478b4fc1.jpg]

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Lol. The band is Phish for the curious.
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I was reminded of this today and thought I’d share. Those that compare the original Star Wars and say it is objectively bad in the same ways as the prequels and we just look at that movie through rose colored glasses need to remember the perspective. The quality of movies of that sort was abysmal at the time. The prequel trilogy came at time when genre films were held to a higher standard. Do some of the effects of the original Star Wars look dodgy now? Sure. Are there plot holes? Sure. Are there reams of terrible dialogue? Sure. Is there bad acting? Sure. But look at one of Star Wars’s contemporaries. This came out after Star Wars.

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(10-04-2019, 12:58 PM)Moe_Syzlak Wrote: I was reminded of this today and thought I’d share. Those that compare the original Star Wars and say it is objectively bad in the same ways as the prequels and we just look at that movie through rose colored glasses need to remember the perspective. The quality of movies of that sort was abysmal at the time. The prequel trilogy came at time when genre films were held to a higher standard. Do some of the effects of the original Star Wars look dodgy now? Sure. Are there plot holes? Sure. Are there reams of terrible dialogue? Sure. Is there bad acting? Sure. But look at one of Star Wars’s contemporaries. This came out after Star Wars.

[video]

Totally agree. Another fun bad one to look at that tried to cash in on Star Wars similarities is the Flash Gordon movie from 1980.
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(09-30-2019, 11:21 AM)TM2YC Wrote: Did George need to sell SW? No. Was he pressured into selling SW? No. Was anybody expecting him to sell off SW?

The question isn't whether he was forced or pressured, but whether he was misled. Some of Iger's actions (especially buying the sequel trilogy outlines despite no desire to actually use them) may have been intended to mislead Lucas into thinking that he would have more creative control than Iger was actually prepared to give him. Whether intentionally or accidentally, those decisions did indeed have the effect of causing Lucas to not realize the full ramifications of the deal until it was too late.
 
Quote:No. I'm sure it was an emotional time handing over the reins but it was his choice, his idea and nobody's fault but his.

While it may have ultimately been his choice in the end, it was't originally his idea. He had no initial desire to sell Star War. Bob Iger was the one who initially approached him and convinced him to sell. That is one of Iger's specialties: approaching the owners of already successful companies who have no need or desire to sell (George Lucas, Marvel's Ike Perlmutter, etc) and convincing them to sell anyway. This is evident in multiple parts of Iger's memoir.
Courage, men! we've not sunk before, and we'll not sink now!
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(10-04-2019, 01:54 PM)hbenthow Wrote:
(09-30-2019, 11:21 AM)TM2YC Wrote: Did George need to sell SW? No. Was he pressured into selling SW? No. Was anybody expecting him to sell off SW?

The question isn't whether he was forced or pressured, but whether he was misled. Some of Iger's actions (especially buying the sequel trilogy outlines despite no desire to actually use them) may have been intended to mislead Lucas into thinking that he would have more creative control than Iger was actually prepared to give him. Whether intentionally or accidentally, those decisions did indeed have the effect of causing Lucas to not realize the full ramifications of the deal until it was too late.
 
Quote:No. I'm sure it was an emotional time handing over the reins but it was his choice, his idea and nobody's fault but his.

While it may have ultimately been his choice in the end, it was't originally his idea. He had no initial desire to sell Star War. Bob Iger was the one who initially approached him and convinced him to sell. That is one of Iger's specialties: approaching the owners of already successful companies who have no need or desire to sell (George Lucas, Marvel's Ike Perlmutter, etc) and convincing them to sell anyway. This is evident in multiple parts of Iger's memoir.

Even if we accept this premise, what does that mean? It means that Iger was a better businessman than Lucas. What does that mean to the fans? Seriously, I have no idea why they might be upset that George Lucas has $4B plus a sh!t-ton of Disney stock and hurt feelings. Are they upset because of that or because they think Lucas would’ve made better movies? Because if it’s the latter I’m going to call bullsh!t based on listening to the same venom that’s been directed at Disney for the past four or so years unleashed on Lucas himself for the 15 or so years before that.
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(10-04-2019, 02:18 PM)Moe_Syzlak Wrote: the same venom that’s been directed at Disney for the past four or so years unleashed on Lucas himself for the 15 or so years before that.

A difference between the two is that Disney are now really trying to please (with variable levels of success and failure) an angry, divided fanbase because Lucas spent those years going out of his way to not please them, to divide them and to antagonize them.
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Iger wanted to unite the fans with a Star Wars "best off" movie (episode 7).
It was a smart move. It kinda worked.
(Making Lucas stories about the whills and the midicholrians after the Prequels... i don't think so...)

THEN Iger and Kennedy thought it was time to surprise the fans with new things.
It was a smart move...  on paper (you can't be sure of something before doing it anyway)
Even if I like TLJ, it was a divisive movie. 
The main problem of the Sequel Trilogy is that it seams to have been made without a clear plan and in a bit of a rush. (and if it's not the case then it feels like that).

On the other hand: with George's Sequels at least there would have been a clean plan. Even if it would have alienated fans even more right away, IMO! (and Disney did not want to take the risk, rightfully so)
There is also to take in consideration the passing of Carrie Fisher that changed the actual storyline and would have surely also changed Lucas story anyway...
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I wanted to add to my previous comment that even if the Sequels seams to have been made without a clear plan, I also feel that the Prequels had a weird structure.

-Spending a full first movie introducing some characters and things that are not developed in the second one.
-Having a second episode that lots of fans don't like...
-Having all the intersting story plots shown in the last movie... wait...
depending on how episode 9 will be, it's a bit the same thing, don't you think?
"Always in motion is the future"
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