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SW - Star Wars

TM2YC

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addiesin said:
The big reveal in episode 8 better not be 
Luke dabbled in the dark side, then became overwhelmed by it, and introduced it to Kylo Ren in the first place - SURPRISE LUKE'S A BAD GUY! ISN'T THAT SHOCKING?!

Prepare for rioting on a global scale if that is what happens :D .
 

Masirimso17

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Han's death was very well done, regardless of whether it was unexpected or predictable. Personally I was sure he would from the beginning, but because I always watch movies with fresh eyes, the first time I watched it I was still moved by it. After a while I thought how turning him into a smuggler again and broken up with Leia, then killing him off just like that, in turn undoing all the character development of the OT, was completely disrespectful (total bs).

Recently I realized that I missed the point. Han being broken up with Leia and back to being a smuggler doesn't undo all the character development of the OT. He doesn't stop loving Leia, he's still caring. If anything, what happens deepens his character. He lost his son to the Dark Side, got separated from Leia, and went back to, in his own words, "the only thing I was ever good at". He is a broken person, and that is tragic. His arc and its resolution with both Leia and Ben are fantastic and his death is amazingly done. The lighting, the color, the music, the acting... just brilliant. I love it. Yes it's not the happy ending RotJ portrayed, but as the saying goes, you have to break some eggs to make an omelette.

About Luke, doing what Addiesin mentioned would be a complete betrayal to the character. They would never do that. However, I have another idea...

Why not have Rey join the Dark Side? Make him a descendant of Palpatine, maybe granddaughter, have her be tempted throughout the movie, Kylo Ren will be a factor too, and Ep. IX would portray her dilemma. It's risky; but it could be done right

EDIT: I also want to add that I believe while Kylo Ren is the antagonist, he also acts as a secondary main character (deuteragonist), I just don't think he's a traditional bad guy, nor is he like Vader in that he is going to be redeemed the same way in Episode IX. Having Kylo Ren revealed to be an agent of the light or perhaps turns back to the light in VIII instead, or even have some romance with Rey, would work very well. Even if Rey fells, we would follow Kylo. If he isn't light then though... I dunno. Not much of a fan fiction writer or predictor.
 

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Masirimso17 said:
Han's death was very well done, regardless of whether it was unexpected or predictable. Personally I was sure he would from the beginning, but because I always watch movies with fresh eyes, the first time I watched it I was still moved by it. After a while I thought how turning him into a smuggler again and broken up with Leia, then killing him off just like that, in turn undoing all the character development of the OT, was completely disrespectful (total bs).

Recently I realized that I missed the point. Han being broken up with Leia and back to being a smuggler doesn't undo all the character development of the OT. He doesn't stop loving Leia, he's still caring. If anything, what happens deepens his character. He lost his son to the Dark Side, got separated from Leia, and went back to, in his own words, "the only thing I was ever good at". He is a broken person, and that is tragic. His arc and its resolution with both Leia and Ben are fantastic and his death is amazingly done. The lighting, the color, the music, the acting... just brilliant. I love it. Yes it's not the happy ending RotJ portrayed, but as the saying goes, you have to break some eggs to make an omelette.

About Luke, doing what Addiesin mentioned would be a complete betrayal to the character. They would never do that. However, I have another idea...

Why not have Rey join the Dark Side? Make him a descendant of Palpatine, maybe granddaughter, have her be tempted throughout the movie, Kylo Ren will be a factor too, and Ep. IX would portray her dilemma. It's risky; but it could be done right

EDIT: I also want to add that I believe while Kylo Ren is the antagonist, he also acts as a secondary main character (deuteragonist), I just don't think he's a traditional bad guy, nor is he like Vader in that he is going to be redeemed the same way in Episode IX. Having Kylo Ren revealed to be an agent of the light or perhaps turns back to the light in VIII instead, or even have some romance with Rey, would work very well. Even if Rey fells, we would follow Kylo. If he isn't light then though... I dunno. Not much of a fan fiction writer or predictor.
For me, never once did I think the character arc of Solo was a bad idea. In fact I think it's great. The problem for me is I was completely unmoved by his death. I don't know why but it simply didn't work for me.  I've said it before but the crucial failure of TFA for me is not the retread stuff, but the lack of emotional resonance. I was more moved by K2SO's death than I was by Han's death, my favorite character.
 

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Moe_Syzlak said:
For me, never once did I think the character arc of Solo was a bad idea. In fact I think it's great. The problem for me is I was completely unmoved by his death. I don't know why but it simply didn't work for me.  I've said it before but the crucial failure of TFA for me is not the retread stuff, but the lack of emotional resonance. I was more moved by K2SO's death than I was by Han's death, my favorite character.

Just a theory, but maybe it was because you already expected Han to die and instead of seeing it with fresh eyes, had a "this is so predictable" view? I'm being sincere here, by the way. Nevertheless, I don't understand. But to each his own.
 

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to me i think disney chose the wrong character role model with rey .now hear me out give me a chance to explain. rey was/is an orphan who grew up and became independant scavenging parts for food,but she has her own house,sand speeder,staff/weapon and yet everyone who she meets has this "im going to cry look" on her face even when she is rescuing finn. Now jyn on the other hand to me was a much more relatable character,she saw her mother gunned down in front of her,her father abducted ,only to be raised by a battle hardened war veteran,having to move from planet to planet learning what she needs to do to survive all along constantly looking over her shoulder for the ever growing imperial threat that is still searching for her. 

In my opinion i think disney only killed off the jyn character is because they didnt know how to write for two role models in a shared universe so they chose the character that was the female version of luke (seeing as though force awakens is a re hash of a new hope)
 

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^I may have agreed with this a while ago but now I completely disagree. Rey being a strong and independent young orphan girl is a fantastic role model for young girls, and her character arc of clinging to the past too much about her parents, but learning to have to move on, is great. She accepts her fate and lets the Force into her life.

I guess Jyn is a good character, and I did really like Rogue One. But honestly she's so forgettable. I can't remember a single character trait she has. She's... hopeful, I guess? Or learns to be... hopeful? Probably I need a rewatch, but I loved Rey the first time a lot more than I kinda liked Jyn the first time. I guess my conclusion is that Rey is a much more memorable character, because she is so cute, charming, and much better written and performed than Jyn.

EDIT: Gee, I hope it isn't too weird that someone who basically sh*t on TFA before is now defending it.
 

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I liked both characters and felt Rey was one of that movie's strengths, both the character and the performance. But can you imagine how silly it would sound to have this discussion about male protagonists? Are we really suggesting that there isn't room in the entire Star Wars universe for two leading women protagonists!?
 

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Masirimso17 said:
Then again I don't think a Han Solo movie is a good idea anyway. It's a lose-lose situation. If you make Han grow as a character, you make him inconsistent with how he's this egotistical, devil-may-care smuggler at the beginning of the original Star Wars, and in turn weaken all his development in the movie and the entire original trilogy, just like Greedo shooting first. If you stay consistent, you end up with an unlikable, static protagonist.

I find your lack of faith... well, I don't quite agree. The cowboy who rides into town, does some good, but remains a restless wanderer who's more or less unchanged is a venerable trope of genre fiction, so I don't think there's no decent pre-ANH Han stories to tell. He could be out for a spot of revenge, be competing/questing for a job, entangled with a femme fatale... just look at how Logan, at the beginning of virtually every X-Men movie apart from DoFP, starts off each story as a DGAF wanderer. Look at Max at the end of Road Warrior or Fury Road. Sure, he can't end up the movie determined to join the Rebellion, but there isn't even a Rebellion at this point, is there? ;)
 

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Gaith said:
I find your lack of faith... well, I don't quite agree. The cowboy who rides into town, does some good, but remains a restless wanderer who's more or less unchanged is a venerable trope of genre fiction, so I don't think there's no decent pre-ANH Han stories to tell. He could be out for a spot of revenge, be competing/questing for a job, entangled with a femme fatale... just look at how Logan, at the beginning of virtually every X-Men movie apart from DoFP, starts off each story as a DGAF wanderer. Look at Max at the end of Road Warrior or Fury Road. Sure, he can't end up the movie determined to join the Rebellion, but there isn't even a Rebellion at this point, is there? ;)

There's no point to a Han Solo movie. A personality of "I'm only in it for the money," "I'll bet you have, *pew* Sorry about the mess" etc. is difficult to make compelling for a movie. Possible, but difficult. We know how it all ends up being, too. Ah well. We'll see what they come up with.
 

DigModiFicaTion

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Masirimso17 said:
There's no point to a Han Solo movie. A personality of "I'm only in it for the money," "I'll bet you have, *pew* Sorry about the mess" etc. is difficult to make compelling for a movie. Possible, but difficult. We know how it all ends up being, too. Ah well. We'll see what they come up with.

I don't know....this movie seemed to do ok.....
large_5OQhe6cDzrhgrZIy4LPlJSIdASE.jpg
 

Masirimso17

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You know, I hadn't finished watching that. Thanks for reminding me, great movie. Should probably finish it when I have the time.

I guess you're right, it probably can be done. We'll see.
 

DigModiFicaTion

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To be honest, I don't care for Rebel without a cause. It just seemed to fit the comparative bill.
 

Masirimso17

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DigModiFicaTion said:
To be honest, I don't care for Rebel without a cause. It just seemed to fit the comparative bill.

Well like I said, I didn't finish it. So can't say for sure.
 

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TM2YC

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"Werner Herzog's Star Wars" is a very funny trailer edit (2mins15 into this clip)...

 

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@"Masirimso17" I love how you've come around on Rey's character and the final arc of Han in TFA, and I agree with you completely on both of those things.
 

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TVs Frink said:
@"Masirimso17" I love how you've come around on Rey's character and the final arc of Han in TFA, and I agree with you completely on both of those things.

Now that's character development  ;)
 

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Honestly, Lucasfilm should just put a revolving door on their entrance, the way they cycle through directors.

I enjoyed Safety Not Guaranteed, and Jurassic World was passable fun, but I don't think it had very much to do with the direction. I think it had more to do with good timing on a film fueled by nostalgia that offered a nice alternative to people tired of superhero movies. Don't get me wrong, Colin Trevorrow did his job well, but I don't think the film's massive success was about that.

Rian Johnson might be a good choice, but frankly, I've been a little nervous about his work. Looper is certainly a clever film, but there's nothing in that movie at all that suggests that Johnson knows how to handle the light-hearted, family-friendly tone of a Star Wars film. And yet, they let him write and direct this Episodic film and co-write the next one. Add in Mark Hammill's comments about "completely disagreeing" with his choices regarding Luke, and I'm a little on edge about this one guy having so much say over my favorite franchise.

Having said all that, Kathleen Kennedy has seen Johnson's work on this film and kept him around, when she hasn't done the same for others. We know she takes this too seriously to just let anyone do whatever they want, so I consider it a high compliment to him that he's been allowed so much creative control.

I'm not outright saying he'll do a bad job. I'm saying I don't think it's wise to hand over direction of the next film to him when we don't know how audiences have reacted to this film yet. (All that being said, I'm still looking forward to December. Again, I haven't seen Johnson's work on The Last Jedi, while Kennedy has, so I'll defer to her judgment if she picks him for Ep. IX.)

So who should Lucasfilm go with? Here are my thoughts on the other names I've heard bandied about:

Abrams: He did direct some Star Wars-y stuff before working on TFA, but I wasn't overwhelmed by his work on this franchise. He initially resisted taking on the job because he didn't think he was the right choice; he thought he was too attached to the source material to have an objective eye. He may have been right on that.

George Lucas: Yes, heaven help us, a lot of fans are insisting that this is the time for George to step back into the franchise. There's even an online petition to get Disney to hire him. I say: No, no, a thousand times, no! George is great at many things -- he's a creative visionary and a technological genius -- but he is not a director of actors, nor is he a good editor. 

Joe Johnston: The director of Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, Jumanji and Captain America: The First Avenger -- as well as an old-school Lucasfilm employee who created Boba Fett's armor, among other things -- is a solid choice, but he's working on the next Narnia film, The Silver Chair, and I think Narnia needs him more than Star Wars at the moment. I hope he doesn't jump ship on that project. I'd like to see him direct a different Star Wars film later on, though.

Ron Howard: He'll probably do a solid job on the Han Solo movie, but I don't want him to feel rushed trying to also get Ep. IX out the door. 

Brad Bird: Would do a great job, but is busy with Incredibles 2 at the moment.

Spielberg: Gets asked every time. He isn't interested because this isn't his franchise. 

Robert Zemeckis: If he doesn't end up directing DC Comics' Flashpoint, he would be an exciting choice, and his career could use a boost right now, but I don't know what his interest level is. He reportedly turned down directing one of the Episodic prequels (as did Spielberg and Ron Howard). 

Ryan Coogler: Director of Creed, so he knows how to take long-running franchises and give them new leases on life that are both popular and acclaimed. He's also finishing up work on the Marvel movie Black Panther. I have no problems with this choice; I only put it at the bottom because I haven't yet seen any of his movies. 

Now here are some names I haven't heard, but would be interesting choices:

Jon Favreau: Director of the first two Iron Man movies, among others. I know a lot of people don't like the second one, but I don't think its problems were related to the direction (and I kind of love the movie anyway).

David Fincher: Yes, like Rian Johnson, his work is very dark, but he's also another former Lucasfilm employee (ILM, specifically) that's gone to direct movies, which makes him an interesting choice.

Hettie MacDonald or Rachel Talalay: It would be nice to have some women behind the camera, and both of these directors have helmed fan-favorite episodes of Doctor Who. MacDonald worked on "Blink," nearly everyone's choice for best episode ever, and Talalay directed the acclaimed season finales of the past two seasons. Yes, TV is somewhat of a different animal than features, but they've shown that they can handle special effects and tight pacing while pulling strong performances out of their actors. 

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this all develops!
 

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Oh, I forgot to mention a few other things not related to Ep. IX but mentioned in this thread:

I'm looking forward to the Han Solo movie. There's not a lot of room for character growth, as has been noted, but I think Han would do a great job as the lead of a space cowboy film. The character development will probably come in the form of finding out about his past, and how he wound up being such a cynical loner in the first place.

While Lucasfilm will never outright contradict Special Edition Han, it almost seems like the choice of Ron Howard as the replacement director suggests a more morally complex story than Lord and Miller, with their comedy track record, may have been able to deliver. (Mind you, I think their film would have been hilarious, and I still wish I could see that one.)

The next part is potentially spoilerific, so scroll down at your own choice. (I'm looking at the top formatting menu bar, but not seeing the spoiler tag anymore. Is it missing, or am I just blind?)
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Still with me? OK, here we go.


I'm finally hearing some rumors about Boba Fett being in the revised film, and if true, that would be perfect, IMO. Boba Fett never needed his own solo film. Too much of his mystery had been lost, anyway. And much of it would have seemed redundant if they're already doing one bounty hunter film. Having Han and Boba Fett chasing after the same bounty, where he's not the main villain, he's just an antagonist with the same goal as Han himself -- that could potentially make for a great movie!

Also, I secretly kind of hope they call the movie Han Solo at Star's End, just because it would be a neat callback to an old novel, just a bit of a nod to the long-time fans. The plot wouldn't have to be a rehash of that, in the same way that Civil War and Days of Future Past bear little resemblance to the comics that inspired them, yet they're still great movies. :)
 
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