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SW - Star Wars

TV's Frink

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Heh. EU is what you decide it is. EU for me is everything outside of 4-6 and parts of 1-3.
 

TMBTM

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TV's Frink said:
Heh. EU is what you decide it is. EU for me is everything outside of 4-6 and parts of 1-3.

Well, yes. You set your own EU line where you want.
But for Lucasfilm I always read that Clone Wars the CGI series is concidered canon. Meaning that a character that was created for the CGI Clone Wars could easily appear in the next trilogy for example. Unlike a character from the books that could cause more debat about its legitimacy to be in a "canon" movie.
Well Disney will do what they want anyway now!
 

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I have mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, Clone Wars never grabbed me. While the visuals got better, and the vocal work was always fantastic, the stories remained dull and obvious, and the characters were cardboard. Most of them weren't annoying, at least, but they had no depth to them, IMO.

I watched the final arc. The first episode was dull, the middle two episodes were outstanding, and then the last episode pulled its punch and was totally lame. Again, IMO.

So I'm not crying about this show departing. Nor am I crying that Detours has been indefinitely postponed. As I noted before, I was excited at any possible Star Wars OT when Detours was the only source for it, but with new movies on the way, Detours has become irrelevant. Lock it up and throw away the key.

So, as I said, on one hand I don't care.

There is one sense, though, in which this is all disturbing: Rather than showing us all the amazing things that they can do with the property, Disney's first goal seems to be to take everything away from us instead. Examples: The video game Battlefront III was canceled, even though it had already been finished. Disney is yanking the comic book rights away from Dark Horse by the end of this year, but Disney-owned Marvel won't produce any new Star Wars comics of its own until 2015. Now both animated series are being put on the shelf.

I haven't heard any announcement about the novels yet, but I have a hunch Disney will stop production of those as well. It seems like Disney's ultimate goal is no new Star Wars in 2014.

And I ask: For heaven's sakes, WHY? This is how you show fans what you're capable of doing, Disney? This is your "magic" at work on the franchise?

I suppose the goal is to build up hype for 2015 and then release a bunch of stuff all at the same time to create a media frenzy. And that kind of makes sense. But it drives me nuts when studios say, "We're not going to play with our toys, but we won't let anyone else play with them either." If Cartoon Network still showed Clone Wars, for instance, Disney would get some licensing fees from that. Now, Cartoon Network loses money, and so does Disney. And the fans get nothing. It's lose-lose all around.

I like what Disney has done with their other owned franchises, and for the most part, I trust Kathleen Kennedy. But all this taking stuff away without announcing new stuff to take its place . . . Well, I have a bad feeling about this. (You knew I had to go there, didn't you?)
 

Sunarep

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well i understand that they are stopping the comic books seeing as there are storylines going on that are set 100 years after return on the jedi - i think they want a slate as clean as possible to reboot star wars
 

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Is season 5 of clone wars worth watching? I stopped watching last season.
 

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geminigod said:
Is season 5 of clone wars worth watching? I stopped watching last season.

Yes, there are some good stories. I'd just pick and choose what story arcs sound interesting and go from there, but definitely watch the last group of stories.

As for all of Star Wars being stopped, of course it is.

Disney needs to establish what they want to do with Star Wars, and while continuing what's already going seems nice, it needs a shift. Taking a year or two without anything Star Wars related is a good way to build hype and decide a direction in which they want to take the product. For all intensive purposes, the new films will signify a shift forward into a new timeline and will basically serve as a soft reboot for the entire franchise. I'd rather them focus on formulation of a sound strategy and formula in which they want to move forward with, because honestly we are going to be bombarded with this stuff for years to come, so I want them to get it right.
 

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I understand your point, Hymie, but I still think that yanking out the rug from under people midstream is a bad idea. I want them to get the new stuff right, but finishing off the old stuff properly has nothing to do with the new stuff. I'm sure you're right that your statements are the same type of thing that Disney is thinking, though.

Also, I think you meant to say "for all intents and purposes." :)
 

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TomH1138 said:
Also, I think you meant to say "for all intents and purposes." :)

Possibly.:oops:

And while I understand what Disney is doing, I understand for most fans it sucks. Besides having played some games, the only Star Wars EU stuff I ever got in to was the Clone Wars show, and I felt that had a good finale so perhaps I don't have reason to lament the ending of the current EU as most do. Personally, I always just thought of it as published fan fiction, and considering how expansive its gotten over the years, is probably more of a burden moving forward than anything.
 

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TomH1138 said:
It seems like Disney's ultimate goal is no new Star Wars in 2014.

And I ask: For heaven's sakes, WHY?

Maybe the story Lucas wrote for the new trilogy goes against most of the EU (books and videogames. Clone Wars is concidered "canon" by Lucas... until he changes his mind... or Disney).
So they can't release things that contradict the new trilogy.
And IMO, I think all things that Disney will now put out should be "canon". Enough with those alternate storylines of the EU. It confuzes people and I'm sure Disney don't want that.

So it's maybe not just building hype for the new movies, but just stopping making things that goes against the movies.
IF this is why, then it's all right, I think.

I liked the freedom that Lucas gave to the EU artists though. It's just that it never felt all right most of the time.
 

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Hymie said:
And while I understand what Disney is doing, I understand for most fans it sucks. Besides having played some games, the only Star Wars EU stuff I ever got in to was the Clone Wars show, and I felt that had a good finale so perhaps I don't have reason to lament the ending of the current EU as most do. Personally, I always just thought of it as published fan fiction, and considering how expansive its gotten over the years, is probably more of a burden moving forward than anything.

Yeah, I hear ya, Hymie. I think you've definitely got a good bead on Disney's mentality; I just kind of think it's a shame to cut off things (in many cases) so abruptly. I know that the makers of Clone Wars have had some endgame in mind since the beginning; it would be nice if we could see that in the form of a direct-to-DVD movie or something.

Funny that people still call Clone Wars "EU" even though George Lucas has said it's official canon. I guess he wasn't quite effective enough in getting that message across. ;-)

TMBTM said:
Maybe the story Lucas wrote for the new trilogy goes against most of the EU (books and videogames. Clone Wars is concidered "canon" by Lucas... until he changes his mind... or Disney).
So they can't release things that contradict the new trilogy.

What would that have to do with the cancellation of Clone Wars, though? I could see Disney putting an end to the novels and comics that take place after Return of the Jedi, but not something from the prequel era. And I'm sure that Lucas wouldn't (intentionally) contradict Clone Wars with the new movies since TCW is his baby.

TMBTM said:
And IMO, I think all things that Disney will now put out should be "canon". Enough with those alternate storylines of the EU. It confuzes people and I'm sure Disney don't want that.

Well, it's not like the publishers started out with the intention of being something separate. When Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire were released in '91, they were considered canon. It's only as George Lucas has done new things himself that have contradicted what's been previously established in the novels and comics that LucasArts has had to take the stance that they're not on the same level of canon as the movies.

So if Disney does any comics, novels or video games at all (which they probably will), at some point it's going to be contradicted by something in a later movie. There's no way to plan for that or predict it. When George suddenly said that there could only be two Sith, the writers (who had been creating whole Sith armies) had to scramble and make the new rule make sense. When George suddenly revealed that Jedi can't get married (after tons of instances of that in the comics), the writers had to scramble again. And the films are always going to take precedence over the spinoff material.

So the idea that the current publishers are trying to do something that's confusing and contradictory isn't really accurate; it's actually looking at the situation backwards.

And it's not like this is unique to Star Wars. The publishers for Star Trek, Doctor Who, etc., try to all stick to the same rules as the shows, but eventually something happens that doesn't quite fit, and the previous work has to be disregarded.

Disney might reboot the continuity of the novels and comics, but eventually those writers will mention something that will get contradicted. At that point, it'll become EU again, or whatever the official name for it will be at that time.

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post. I have too much Star Wars info crammed in my head. :)
 

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TomH1138 said:
When Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire were released in '91, they were considered canon.

Not so sure about that. I think that even when I read that trilogy back then I knew that if Lucas wanted to make new movies it could contradict the novels. It was pretty clear from the start if I remember well.

Funny thing is that I'm reading Heir to the Empire again these days. :)

The cancellation of Clones Wars is maybe due to the fact that Disney/Lucasfilm also want to start a new TV series and maybe it could also be CGI? So maybe they want the Clone Wars team to be ready to work on something new.
I also guess that Clone Wars will return from time to time as single longuer episodes, but that's just me guessing.
 

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TomH1138 said:
So if Disney does any comics, novels or video games at all (which they probably will), at some point it's going to be contradicted by something in a later movie.

That's exactly what I think they should try to avoid from now on. It's maybe a wishful thinking from me though.
 

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as i have said i have yet to see the season 5 but I would dig the hell out of a straight to blu ray finale movie if that is the only way to finish clone wars

but with all the shutting down that is going on i think it is really disney gathering all his soldiers to strike - what we have now is sorta the calm before the storm :p

and I really hope the movies get as far away from the messed up EU as possible - there has just been too much "epic battle" been happening after thrawn (vong invasion, dark nest, han's son becoming an ultra sith)
 

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TMBTM said:
Not so sure about that. I think that even when I read that trilogy back then I knew that if Lucas wanted to make new movies it could contradict the novels. It was pretty clear from the start if I remember well.

I guess what I mean is that it didn't contradict anything and wasn't expected to, since at that point Lucas was still insisting that there was no story after RotJ. Heck, in '91, he was still cagey about whether or not there were going to be any prequels!

You're right that having no video games, comics and novels would reduce the chance of contradictions, but I can't see any modern company not doing those things with a franchise. I agree that the likeliest reason for canceling Clone Wars is that Disney is probably looking to put its own stamp on the franchise with its own animated series at some point.

But as for contradictions, just simply even making more films increases the chances of that. Look at Yoda telling Obi-Wan "there is another," and then it turns out that Obi-Wan was there for the birth of the twins, making the need to tell him that information pointless.

The prequels aren't even consistent within themselves. One minute, Anakin is desperately pining for being back home on Tattooine and complaining about how cold it is in space, the next minute he's saying, "I don't like sand." How can someone whose definition of home is an entirely sandy planet not like sand??

Sorry. I'm calm again now. Took my meds. :p

It's kind of funny, because after I responded to your post the last time, I listened to a Star Wars podcast where someone quoted Dave Filoni (the show runner of Clone Wars) as saying that Lucasfilm hasn't been overly concerned with continuity between the properties in the past, but that they're going to try to start doing better about that. So here's hoping!
 

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TomH1138 said:
You're right that having no video games, comics and novels would reduce the chance of contradictions,

I know you understood what I said but, just to be clear for our dear readers friends: I'm not saying there should not be videogames, comics and novels, I'm only saying that maybe those that were cancelled were because their stories could be pointless and/or confuzing with what's comming next.

And you're right, there's already some inconsistencies even within the 6 movies. But that does not mean they could not do better as they go. I think that's all the fans want at this point: at least make something coherent this time! haha.

About the "there is another" line. I'm not sure Obi Wan beeing there for the birth of the twins makes Yoda's line pointless. It's just someone remembering someone else something he already know. Happends all the time in real life.
EDIT: or maybe Obi Wan is sexist or something like that and don't think Leia could be another Jedi, haha


TomH1138 said:
kind of funny, because after I responded to your post the last time, I listened to a Star Wars podcast where someone quoted Dave Filoni (the show runner of Clone Wars) as saying that Lucasfilm hasn't been overly concerned with continuity between the properties in the past, but that they're going to try to start doing better about that. So here's hoping!

Good... GOOD...
 

geminigod

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Worst Star Wars story idea ever: Anything involving time travel.
 

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TMBTM said:
I know you understood what I said but, just to be clear for our dear readers friends: I'm not saying there should not be videogames, comics and novels, I'm only saying that maybe those that were cancelled were because their stories could be pointless and/or confuzing with what's comming next.

Good point. I appreciate the clarification.

TMBTM said:
And you're right, there's already some inconsistencies even within the 6 movies. But that does not mean they could not do better as they go. I think that's all the fans want at this point: at least make something coherent this time! haha.

I agree. If it's fun and entertaining, I'll be satisfied even if there are a few points that can be quibbled about. Part of the reason that fans like me rip into the continuity errors in the prequels is because there's nothing else worth talking about. If the acting was great and the dialogue was listenable, I would be a lot more forgiving.

For instance, Yoda tells Luke in Empire that Luke shouldn't confront Vader until he has more training. Then in Jedi, Yoda says that Luke doesn't need any more training; what he really needs to do is confront Vader. But the scenes are so enjoyable in and of themselves that I don't mind.

Also (and I realize I'm probably reaching here), it could be argued that in the passing year since Luke last saw Yoda, that Yoda has had time to reconsider things. If Luke had stayed and completed his training at that time, his confrontation with Vader would have gone smoother. Now, what Luke needs is not so much to learn how to pick up more rocks with his mind, but to conquer his personal demons. When Luke left, that changed the path that his training needed to take.

TMBTM said:
About the "there is another" line. I'm not sure Obi Wan beeing there for the birth of the twins makes Yoda's line pointless. It's just someone remembering someone else something he already know. Happends all the time in real life.
EDIT: or maybe Obi Wan is sexist or something like that and don't think Leia could be another Jedi, haha

Do you mean that Yoda has to remind Obi-Wan? (The word "remember" there is kind of confusing.) If that's what you mean, yeah, that's possible. Obi-Wan hasn't had any interaction with Leia in the OT, so maybe he just hasn't thought about her in a while.

There is also possibly another interpretation. It's a contradiction if Obi-Wan is saying that Luke is the last Skywalker. But if he's saying that Luke is the last person with the potential to be trained as a Jedi, it's very well that he could be simply stating an opinion: Obi-Wan knew Luke personally, so he has a connection and an ability to help train Luke that he doesn't have with Leia. Yoda offers an alternative opinion: Even though it would be very difficult for Leia to accept that she's a Jedi, she still knew who Obi-Wan was, so he could reach out to her as a Force ghost and still get her to come to Dagobah to be trained by Yoda.

Or, y'know, maybe he is just sexist. :p

TMBTM said:
Good... GOOD...

"A loooonnnnnng time have I watched this one." :lol:
 

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TomH1138 said:
Do you mean that Yoda has to remind Obi-Wan? (The word "remember" there is kind of confusing.) If that's what you mean, yeah, that's possible.

Yup, "remind", sorry. I always struggle between remember and remind.
 

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geminigod said:
Worst Star Wars story idea ever: Anything involving time travel.
Well, maybe...
tumblr_mjojkidV2G1r3jxbpo1_500.png
 
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