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SW - Star Wars
(10-09-2019, 03:41 AM)TMBTM Wrote: I wanted to add to my previous comment that even if the Sequels seams to have been made without a clear plan, I also feel that the Prequels had a weird structure.

-Spending a full first movie introducing some characters and things that are not developed in the second one.
-Having a second episode that lots of fans don't like...
-Having all the intersting story plots shown in the last movie... wait...
depending on how episode 9 will be, it's a bit the same thing, don't you think?

Episode 9 could be The Room bad and still the Sequel Trilogy will be massively better than the Prequel Trilogy, and I haven’t even particularly liked Episodes 7 & 8.
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(10-09-2019, 03:41 AM)TMBTM Wrote: I wanted to add to my previous comment that even if the Sequels seams to have been made without a clear plan, I also feel that the Prequels had a weird structure.

-Spending a full first movie introducing some characters and things that are not developed in the second one.
-Having a second episode that lots of fans don't like...
-Having all the intersting story plots shown in the last movie... wait...
depending on how episode 9 will be, it's a bit the same thing, don't you think?
the PT's structure wasn't going to be this weird. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were supposed to be just one character - Obi-Wan - and Anakin was going to be a young adult. the reason for the changes:
- Lucas realized that he wasn't ever showing how a regular Master/Padawan relationship was supposed to be, so the audience would never see how different and unique Obi-Wan's relationship to Anakin was. in order to do that he made Obi-Wan the Padawan, and gave him a master.
- he also realized that there was an element lacking: what would emotionally attach Anakin to Tattooine so much to make him leaving such a heartbreaking moment? so he chose to make him a kid and have it be leaving his mom.

Lucas was also making stuff up on the spot during the PT, but since it was a one man effort it was less... heterogeneous, in a way. IMO, for the issues above, he could've just ignored the first issue, and he could've made Anakin be a young adult/teen that has to take care of his little brother, Owen. but anyways, he was under a lot of pressure at the time, and like it's been said infinite times, he was alone in making them.

but that made Episode I have to be set many years before the actual story of the PT, which kind of screwed Lucas' plans big time and made him have to condense the entire story onto two movies.

i also think it's really interesting how AotC is regarded as the worst nowadays. growing up, me and all my friends and basically everyone I knew agreed that TPM was by far the worst, AotC was good and RotS fantastic. i still hold that opinion (though TFA is rock botttom in my ranking), and TLJ is in between AotC and TPM to me.

--

concerning the discussion about the book, i think that Lucas deeply regrets the sale. he's still that 1970s revolutionary, and he must be incredibly mad at himself for selling his company - and therefore his IPs. and i don't mean that from a business or money standpoint - i don't think he cares about those much anymore - i mean from a creator of art standpoint. from a writer/director standpoint. they were his movies, it was his universe, and now they're somehow not anymore? someone else "owns" them? i mean that sounds incredibly... insane to me. it might be how stuff is legally but i really don't see it that way, and i don't think Lucas does either. and we seem to share the opinion on TFA, so when he was displeased with what was done to his story he must've really started voicing his unhappiness.
What has hardened will never win.
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(10-09-2019, 05:33 PM)Collipso Wrote: concerning the discussion about the book, i think that Lucas deeply regrets the sale. he's still that 1970s revolutionary, and he must be incredibly mad at himself for selling his company - and therefore his IPs. and i don't mean that from a business or money standpoint - i don't think he cares about those much anymore - i mean from a creator of art standpoint. from a writer/director standpoint. they were his movies, it was his universe, and now they're somehow not anymore? someone else "owns" them? i mean that sounds incredibly... insane to me. it might be how stuff is legally but i really don't see it that way, and i don't think Lucas does either. and we seem to share the opinion on TFA, so when he was displeased with what was done to his story he must've really started voicing his unhappiness.

Perhaps he should've let his IPs go into the public domain, then. He wouldn't own SW anymore, but neither would anybody else.

Fuck Disney, and fuck Lucas.
Deconstruction without reconstruction is destruction.
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(10-09-2019, 08:54 PM)Duragizer Wrote: Perhaps he should've let his IPs go into the public domain, then. He wouldn't own SW anymore, but neither would anybody else.

Fuck Disney, and fuck Lucas.

That would be chaotic.
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(10-09-2019, 08:59 PM)Masirimso17 Wrote:
(10-09-2019, 08:54 PM)Duragizer Wrote: Perhaps he should've let his IPs go into the public domain, then. He wouldn't own SW anymore, but neither would anybody else.

Fuck Disney, and fuck Lucas.

That would be chaotic.

Correction: it would an anarchic. And for this anarcho-commie bastard, nothing would be better.
Deconstruction without reconstruction is destruction.
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(10-09-2019, 10:47 PM)Duragizer Wrote:
(10-09-2019, 08:59 PM)Masirimso17 Wrote:
(10-09-2019, 08:54 PM)Duragizer Wrote: Perhaps he should've let his IPs go into the public domain, then. He wouldn't own SW anymore, but neither would anybody else.

Fuck Disney, and fuck Lucas.

That would be chaotic.

Correction: it would an anarchic. And for this anarcho-commie bastard, nothing would be better.

Hahahahah fair enough Big Grin Just imagine the hundreds of different Star Wars Sequels Smile Disney, Lucas, Fox, Sony, Warner, Netflix, and so on
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(10-09-2019, 03:28 AM)TMBTM Wrote: Iger wanted to unite the fans with a Star Wars "best off" movie (episode 7).
It was a smart move. It kinda worked.

Kinda - but it actually wasn't that smart, IMO. I mean, yeah, from a box officer perspective, TFA's return on investment is impossible to quibble with. But, it completely ignores the lesson of Kevin Feige's MCU. The MCU didn't start with an Avengers movie; it started with an origin story for a relatively obscure (in the general public sense) hero. Only after three more origin stories and a sequel did we get to the big payoff event, and it thus felt epic.

TFA also served as an origin story for a new character... but it also threw in Han, Leia, the Empire, a Death Star, the Rebellion, an Emperor, and then put a cherry Luke on top. Way too much, way too fast. And now two of the three movies released since then, plus all the announced Disney+ series, are prequels to TFA, and the one TFA follow-up we've had so far was hugely divisive. In other words: TFA, in its desperation to make a quick buck (over two billion of them, admittedly), flat-out sucked at world- and franchise-building.

To quote Tony Stark: "Not a great plan." Wink
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I’ve said this before, but Star Wars is a tough franchise to build. It seems on the surface it would easy. It’s a rich and expansive world. But what made the original so great was that it was a modern myth set in space. It’s not sci fi in the traditional sense. It works precisely because it lacks nuance. The more you start to flesh out the world, the less it retains that which originally made it work. The case of Luke is a perfect example. If you’re going to continue to tell his story he needs to experience conflict. But many fans didn’t want to see that Luke, even if it is consistent with the Hero’s Journey. They wanted the victorious heroes of the OT to stay victorious. They wanted them to be one dimensionally “good” characters. The more you flesh out the world and its characters, the less it retains that which made it a modern myth.
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(10-10-2019, 12:41 AM)Moe_Syzlak Wrote: They wanted the victorious heroes of the OT to stay victorious. They wanted them to be one dimensionally “good” characters.

That could have worked perfectly if they had stayed as minor supporting characters, with Rey, Poe, Finn, etc, having all of the meaty material. I think that would have been the ideal way to go.
Courage, men! we've not sunk before, and we'll not sink now!
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(10-10-2019, 02:47 AM)hbenthow Wrote:
(10-10-2019, 12:41 AM)Moe_Syzlak Wrote: They wanted the victorious heroes of the OT to stay victorious. They wanted them to be one dimensionally “good” characters.

That could have worked perfectly if they had stayed as minor supporting characters, with Rey, Poe, Finn, etc, having all of the meaty material. I think that would have been the ideal way to go.

Except that’s not the path of the Hero’s Journey.
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