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The Prisoner (original series)

theslime

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I saw there's a thread for The Prisoner mini-series remake, but are there any fans of the Patrick MacGoohan's immortal original (from 1967) in this place?

I love it. The quality of the writing is some of the best I've seen (in most of the episodes, at least), and the last episode is the finale to end all finales. It's just so rich. There's art cinema narrative sequences and there's ridiculous 60s sci-fi capers, and the style of it looks like nothing else on earth.

It's probably a tie with Twin Peaks for my favourite TV show. Sadly, like with Twin Peaks, there are major clunkers. Oh well, that's just the way it is. But the best hours are in some cases almost too good to be true, and above and beyond most of even 60s art cinema, imo.

l.jpg



PS: Which episode is your favourite? I'm tied between Free for All and Many Happy Returns (with the first and last episodes being other obvious candidates).
 

Brumous

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It's a great series, one of the oddest ever made. Surreal plots and absurdist scripts, sure, that goes without saying. What really struck me was the spooky stilted oddness of the atmosphere. Something about the direction, acting, costumes and sets, so portentous and artificial, it's like the shows were obsolete before they were broadcast. And they're still relevant too.

I've even thought about a TV-to-movie fanedit. I have an idea for it, maybe I'll do it sometime when I have the time.

My favorite episode is Living in Harmony, the one that was censored from American TV. I like all of the first 13 going by the DVD order. Some are rebellion plots and some are escape plots, I like the rebellion plots more.

Didn't care for the final three, but if a mashup of Benny Hill, Samuel Beckett and James Bond appeals to you, give 'em a try.

prisoner1.jpg
 

theslime

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Haha! I'm kinda confused which is which of the Benny Hill, Samuel Beckett and James Bond episodes - "The Girl who was Death" is both Benny Hill AND James Bond! Although I can take or leave that one, I still gotta admit the sheer ridiculousness of both the style and the premise. I've honestly never seen anything like it.

I like the last two a lot. Once upon a Time is the most intense episode I've seen of anything. It reminded me of a play I once saw (based on Chekhov) that was so intense I wanted to leave, although nothing bad happened. Fall Out is crazy and divisive, but ultimately I think it works really well.

Btw, if your favourite episode is Living in Harmony, you're bonkers - in a good way!
 

theslime

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Then there's the inevitable running order question.

(For the newbies: The Prisoner had a questionable use of dates in episodes, and the running order got scrambled from the very beginning when they were behind schedule. When they finished shooting and ediiting what was by all accounts a later episode before the others, that episode got broadcast as the second episode, even though the escape attempt is almost ridiculously elaborate and makes no sense so early. Also, in two of the episodes that were eventually shown halfway through the series, he says he's new. The DVD order follows the original nonsensical order, unfortunately.)

I like this viewing order:

"Arrival"
"Dance of the Dead"
"Free for All"
"Checkmate"
"The Chimes of Big Ben"
"The Schizoid Man"
("The General)"
"A. B. & C."
"A Change of Mind"
("Do Not Forsake Me, Oh My Darling")
("It's Your Funeral")
"The Girl Who Was Death"
"Many Happy Returns"
"Living in Harmony"
"Hammer into Anvil"
"Once Upon a Time"
"Fall Out"

It's slightly modified from one I found online. It makes sense with what information we're given of the general timeframe, and moves concept episodes like Living in Harmony and Girl Who Was Death farther apart, so we're not watching ridiculous costume fantasies two episodes in a row. I also think it makes sense to place Many Happy Returns near the end. (The ones in parantheses are the ones I think should be avoided altogether for quality reasons. The General is awful. Do Not Forsake Me is ridiculous and kinda fun, but ulitmately opens cans of worms that are best left unopened. It's Your Funeral is just not very good, despite having a good No. 2.)
 

theslime

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I just started a rewatch, and I'm at Dance of the Dead now. It's just so good. Mary Morris in a Peter Pan costume = creepiest villain ever.

MaryMorris.jpg


What really struck me was the spooky stilted oddness of the atmosphere. Something about the direction, acting, costumes and sets, so portentous and artificial, it's like the shows were obsolete before they were broadcast. And they're still relevant too.
I agree 100 percent. I had the series lying around forever because I'd just read about it, and it didn't strike me as anything too interesting. Dystopias or prison movies rarely interest me, I've tried THX-1138, the film version of 1984 - twice - and I've tried reading Brave New World - they all bore me to tears, even though I actually really enjoy Huxley's short stories. Also, The Prisoner's tagline of "I am not a number! I am a free man!" isn't all that deep in of itself, to be honest, and the idea of a sci-fi prison movie didn't interest me in the slightest. So I thought meh.

But nothing prepared me for the portentous and artificial (great description) nature of the show. It looks absolutely stunning, way better than most British films from the same period (in full 35mm, with plenty of location shooting), and the fact that it changes mode, often suddenly, from high concept to escape thriller to high drama to swinging 60s style (with a soundtrack to match) to Shakespearean shouting matches makes sure that it's never boring. Also, Patrick MacGoohan is probably the most intense leading man ever.

Best show ever? Possibly.
 

mnkykungfu

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This is one of my fav shows ever.  It's been probably 10 years since I've watched it, so I don't think I can answer any of the detailed questions here, but I will say that to me there's not a single "clunker" episode.  They all succeed to differing levels.

The finale, of course, is the most contentious one.  I've gone back and forth between hating it and thinking it's one of the best ever.

You really do need to watch this with the social context in mind though.  "The bomb" is still very much a threat.  The Cold War is kicking into top gear.  Patrick McGoohan had just finished starring as the famous spy in Danger Man/Secret Agent, so the intimation was that it was the same character whose show had just ended that was now abducted into this village.  It was really just a cultural onslaught.

The remake had a lot of potential and a promising start, but it kind of crapped out by the end.
 

idoru2099

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I've been re-watching this awesome series with your viewing order @theslime. It's great but I think it could use a little trimming here and there. I feel that some episodes have been padded out to reach the 50min mark. "Free for All" could use a little trimming in general and "Checkmate", while a great episode, should have the "love"-subplot removed, it goes nowhere and actually hurts the pace.
 

novalis

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I'm joining this thread kind of late. I am working on making a trilogy of movies based on Danger Man and The Prisoner. The first splices together episodes of Danger Man and the opening credits of The Prisoner to show the resignation. The second splices Arrival, Free for All, and Checkmate. The fourth becomes a number 2 focused story, connecting The Chimes of Big Ben and the last two. It was so fun to see the continuity and the connections that are even in Danger Man.
 
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ImperialFighter

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Then there's the inevitable running order question.

(For the newbies: The Prisoner had a questionable use of dates in episodes, and the running order got scrambled from the very beginning when they were behind schedule. When they finished shooting and ediiting what was by all accounts a later episode before the others, that episode got broadcast as the second episode, even though the escape attempt is almost ridiculously elaborate and makes no sense so early. Also, in two of the episodes that were eventually shown halfway through the series, he says he's new. The DVD order follows the original nonsensical order, unfortunately.)

Ha, I didn't know this. Having a favourable recollection of this show from when I was younger, I was intending to have a nostalgic re-watch of the entire thing at some point soon, so this info. was very useful indeed.

As an aside, I recently started to compile a list of the *only* STAR TREK franchise episodes and movies I'm interested in re-watching again someday. But things were a little complicated when I went down this particular rabbit hole, so this excellent resource proved to be really helpful when it came to putting certain TOS, TNG, and DS9 episodes in chronological order for myself -


Now it seems that watching THE PRISONER show isn't straightforward either. But I've found this link on THE PRISONER's main page info. on Wikipedia which makes things clearer overall, so thanks for the heads-up! -

 

novalis

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I started a really rough edit. It looks like it might be a tetralogy. Here is the outline.

The Prisoner: Resignation
1. Danger Man Main Episodes: Colony Three, I'm Afraid You Have the Wrong Number, Opening sequence of The Prisoner.
2. Woven in the Portmeirion setting of View from the Villa, and sequences of The Ubiquitous Mr. Lovegrove that connect to thematic elements of identity and psychological control in The Prisoner.

The Prisoner: Arrival
Using the six confirmed stories from the "McGoohan Seven" original episodes.
Arrival, Free for All, Checkmate

The Prisoner: Fall Out
Chimes of Big Ben, Once Upon a Time, Fall Out

The Prisoner: The Beginning
Prisoner 2009 Mini-series, trimmed to a 2-and-a-half-hour movie with moments from The Prisoner and interviews with Patrick McGoohan as dream reality and on "television" to make it have a multi-verse connection with the original series and creator. It was very easy to find side plots to cut...

My idea for these movies is that there are three colonies:
1. Colony Three exists in the Danger Man/John Drake universe.
2. The Village is Colony Two with Number Six.
3. The Village from the mini-series is Colony One. Patrick McGoohan exists in the "real world" version of this universe and has created a show about Colony Two that is watched by the villagers to help them escape their reality.

First fan edit. Having tons of fun!
 

Mark Moore

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I'm late to this thread. I watched this series back in 2021. I enjoyed it, but what I wanted to address here is the viewing order.

First of all, the "McGoohan's 7" thing is bullshit. This confused me while researching the order prior to viewing, because it appears all over the Prisoner fandom, but it turns out that it originated, unsourced, in a book about the show that had been widely debunked within the fandom, so it's really odd that this "McGoohan's 7" misinformation persists.

McGoohan did give a "6 of 7" in a 1991 interview with Howard Foy. They are Arrival, Free for All, The Chimes of Big Ben, Many Happy Returns, Once Upon a Time, and Fall Out. He withheld the name of the remaining episode.

I put the various orders that I'd found (11 of them!) into a spreadsheet and calculated an order based on all of these (each episode was awarded points based on where they fell in the respective orders). I then altered this "consensus order" based on internal episode clues that I gleaned online. This is the order that I viewed the episodes in:

Arrival
Free for All
Dance of the Dead
Checkmate
The Chimes of Big Ben
The Schizoid Man
The General
A. B. and C.
Many Happy Returns
It's Your Funeral
A Change of Mind
Hammer into Anvil
Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling
Living in Harmony
The Girl Who Was Death
Once Upon a Time
Fall Out
 

novalis

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Yep, I knew it was bullshit, that was why I put quotes around "McGoohan Seven." I probably should have been more clear about my quotation marks. The idea of the "confirmed six" in the 1991 interview did help me choose which episodes to choose for my fan edits to get the essence of the story for people who didn't want to commit to all seventeen. I just substituted Checkmate for Many Happy Returns (and used scenes for Many Happy Returns in the resignation episode.) It looks like my order works with yours as I have used this order:
Arrival
Free For All
Checkmate
The Chimes of Big Ben
Once Upon a Time
Fall Out
 

asterixsmeagol

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For any podcast listeners, I recommend these two.

Features NPR's Glen Weldon

Features Maximum Fun's Elliott Kalan and John Hodgman
 

avengers11

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My recollections of The Prisoner is that this series is the culmination of a trilogy. First Danger Man followed by Secret Agent which was re-titled to Secret Agent Man and finally The Prisoner or the end of John Drake. The first two series deal with mans conflict against man. John Drakes secret work for the United Kingdom as a spy/assassin amounts to nothing more that state sanctioned murder as he witnesses the horror of his actions. The Prisoner is where Patrick McGoohan uses his creative skills to the greatest effect in the creation of this character. I always wondered if a spy could become that powerful, oh yes Putin. I dont have any updated information from the recently released lectures and interviews of Patrick McGoohan.
 

novalis

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I love the idea of a trilogy of shows. Patrick McGoohan has never confirmed that Number 6 is John Drake, but he definitely left enough clues that we are meant to see a John Drake-like character resigning and becoming Number 6. This is my favorite interview with McGoohan:
. I actually finished a rough cut of a "Prisoner Prequel" or Pilot with episodes and scenes from Danger Man/Secret Agent that set up John Drake's resignation if anyone is interested in giving it some feedback.
 

skyblue

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I remember this tv show, it has been a while though since I watched it. I heard that the books though are uncensored compared to the show. For example: in the episode A, B, & C the book describes #6 trashing the lab once he finds out the truth of what has been happening to him for the last few days. In the tv show that scene that I just described in the book does not happen. Anyway, it is a good show nonetheless.
 

asterixsmeagol

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I actually finished a rough cut of a "Prisoner Prequel" or Pilot with episodes and scenes from Danger Man/Secret Agent that set up John Drake's resignation
Which episodes did you use as the base for the edit? Did you make a cut list?
 

novalis

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I focused mostly on three episodes of Danger Man/Secret Agent: Colony Three, I'm Afraid You Have the Wrong Number, and The Ubiquitous Dr. Lovegrove.

I didn't make a cut list as this was an experiment, but I will do my best to explain my changes.

Cold Open
1. Opening with the scene from the first episode of A View from the Villa (first episode) that takes place in Portmeirion. Added voice-over of the original opening. Ended when John Drake looks at the tower and says: "I feel like I've been to this place before."
2. Cut to John Drake driving from The Ubiquitous Dr. Lovegrove. Took out all implications that this is a dream episode. At the casino, he meets Mr. Alexander (I have imagined Dr. Lovegrove and Mr. Alexander as different "number 2s"). Drake looks at himself in the mirror. (A hint of who is number 1.)
3. Hard cut of John Drake waking up washed ashore from the Prisoner episode "Many Happy Returns." John Drake arrives back in London. Attempts to convince his superiors of the existence of the Village. I made this black and white to fit Danger Man.

Credits roll during the callback drive and entrance of John Drake of "Many Happy Returns" that echo the opening of the Prisoner.

Colony Three
Drake goes on his own to investigate the series of Villages by faking his identity to go to Colony Three. This section is mostly Colony Three with some small edits and a continuation of scenes from Dr. Lovegrove during dreams and interrogation. I'm attempting to establish the physical and psychological reality of the Village.
John Drake returns to realize that Janet will be "retired." We see a card drop in a file (taken from the credits of The Prisoner.)

I'm Afraid You Have the Wrong Number
After a kidnapping and staged auto wreck of a fellow agent, Drake attempts to rescue the agent. I attempted to make it unclear which organization is responsible for the kidnapping as a final straw for Drake to resign. Drake drives off with the agent.

Prisoner opening credits
He then drives to resign using the opening credits of The Prisoner. After falling asleep with the gas coming through his door, I added one last scene from Dr. Lovegrove where he fights his mirror image (to foreshadow who is Number 1) and then is injected with a large needle. (Alan Moore called The Ubiquitous Dr. Lovegrove a pilot episode for The Prisoner. )

The Village
John Drake wakes up in color (like the Wizard of Oz). Looks out and sees that he is back where he started as he looks out at Portmeirion and the Village.
Ended with the line "They've given you a number and taken away your name" from the Secret Agent theme song.

I hope this helps.
 

asterixsmeagol

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I love the idea of a trilogy of shows. Patrick McGoohan has never confirmed that Number 6 is John Drake, but he definitely left enough clues that we are meant to see a John Drake-like character resigning and becoming Number 6. This is my favorite interview with McGoohan:
. I actually finished a rough cut of a "Prisoner Prequel" or Pilot with episodes and scenes from Danger Man/Secret Agent that set up John Drake's resignation if anyone is interested in giving it some feedback.
This is the worst interviewer I have ever seen. Happy to hear from McGoohan, but this host sucks.
 
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