• Most new users don't bother reading our rules. Here's the one that is ignored almost immediately upon signup: DO NOT ASK FOR FANEDIT LINKS PUBLICLY. First, read the FAQ. Seriously. What you want is there. You can also send a message to the editor. If that doesn't work THEN post in the Trade & Request forum. Anywhere else and it will be deleted and an infraction will be issued.
  • If this is your first time here please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot, especially our Own the Source rule. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.
  • Please read our Rules & Guidelines

Mac newbie needs guidance/information/suggestions

LDMartin1959

Member
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
1
I make to claims to great (or even modest) editing skill. I'd be please if I were 1/10 as good as the editors whose work I have seen via fan edits. However, I'd like to try my hand at it. I am running up against a few issues and I am hoping there are those amoungst the experienced fan editors who can help. I would appreciate any comments, suggestions or questions for clarification. I will try to provide as much detail as I can but in my ignorance and inexperience I may leave out something relevant.

I have an iMac on the hardware side (I know, I'd prefer to have a pro machine, but money is an issue. What can I say...), Final Cut X, HandBrake, RipIt, MPEG StreamClip, iDVD (for what it's worth -- doesn't seem to work well on Mountain Lion), Roxio Toast...hmmmm, what else might be relevant...?

I saw it mentioned in my research that .VOB files are essentially MPEG-2 files (which FCx does import) and that simply renaming them to .MPG would allow them to be imported into FC. Didn't work for me. In exploring methods of importing the files into FC I began looking at HandBrake. It was suggested to me on the HB forums that this was not the best route to go: "Don't use lossy intermediate compression for export to FC or any other NLE. Handbrake is a delivery encoder, and not designed for infrastructure. Import your BDAV directly into FC, decrypting and/or remuxing first as necessary....render a LOSSLESS intermediate..." I am not using Blu-Ray but in keeping with the spirit of the advice I am attempting to create a lossless intermediate.

I was directed to a application called MPEG StreamClip. This seems to be a solution although I am having some issues. When trying open the DVD files directly I get the message, "File open error: the first part of the file is not valid". I suspect I know the reason for that, so I have taken steps to get around that issue (discretion dictates I go no further). After this little side-step, I can not get to the movie content using "Open DVD" (not sure why because I can get to it fine in HandBrake, VLC Lan and DVD Player) so I use "Open File" and have the app open all the files. I avoid the invalid message but then run into the message, "Warning: the stream may have timecode breaks. Please use "Fix Timecode Breaks" to fix this stream." I don't know if this is an indication of an issue with the content or simply due to the fact that I am having to use the "Open File" method. Anyone have any thoughts on this message?

I am exporting to .DV as some of the material I have read seems to suggest this is the best format choice for avoiding compression. Yes/No?

Also, is there any reason to use or not use the "Split DVD Stream Into Segments"?

Because money is an issue for me at the moment, I am interested in getting MPEG StreamClip to be my conversion tool of choice. But if there is a significantly better option that is inexpensive (as defined as, I'm not working right now so any expenditure of any significance needs extreme justification) I would be interested in hearing about it.

Thank you in advance for the assistance, advice and direction.
 

TV's Frink

You Catch On Pretty Quick
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
23,676
Reaction score
406
Trophy Points
193
Thread moved to Mac Guides.
 

LDMartin1959

Member
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
1
TV's Frink said:
Thread moved to Mac Guides.
Sorry about the wrong section. Figured Fanediting Applications was appropriate. Didn't realized it was intended just for the specific apps listed. Thanks for correcting.
 

TV's Frink

You Catch On Pretty Quick
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
23,676
Reaction score
406
Trophy Points
193
Don't worry, I had to check it out myself first ;)

I'm not a Mac guy but I'm sure someone will be along to give some tips at some point.
 

wabid

Well-known member
Messages
567
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
16
Things I noticed skimming this.

Be careful to respect the difference between reencoding and remuxing. As you said you do not need to add a lossy step. MPEG Streamclip looks like it does a lot of stuff. If you are having problems importing your file, it is likely you are taking a misstep within Streamclip. I am downloading Streamclip right now to see if I can recreate the correct steps.

Once you remux your vobs to mpeg, you will no longer be able to use the "open dvd" feature, you must use open file. This is because in the process of making a mpg, you destroy the disc structure.

You should be splitting your output to 1gb chunks to stay DVD complaint. I have no idea what percent of devices actually require this to playback your content directly but dems are the rules. I have never not split the content, because there is no reason not to. Sorry for confusing double negative use.

OK I download the program and am testing it with Q2's FotJ EP3.
When trying open the DVD files directly I get the message, "File open error: the first part of the file is not valid". I suspect I know the reason for that, so I have taken steps to get around that issue (discretion dictates I go no further).

This is the first part where we differ. I had no problem opening the files. I suspect this is because you are not opening ALL the files or you are opening TOO MANY files. In the case of FotJ3, VTS_05_0.VOB VTS_05_1.VOB VTS_05_2.VOB VTS_05_3.VOB VTS_05_4.VOB VTS_05_5.VOB. REMEMBER: VTS_05_0.VOB or its equivalent is roughly 8kb. You should not be skipping this file, even though it is 0 seconds in length. SO at this step, make sure you are opening the correct files. If you ripped the DVD yourself, there is no reason you should be getting that error message. Work on eliminating that error message without adding additional tools/steps/downloads.

Looking through MPEG Streamclip I actually don't see an option to export to MPEG2 without converting the file. There is a demux menu, which will let you create a combo m2v and ac3 file. This would be my suggestion. I can return to google and see if there is a better program to remux to mpg, but by demuxing to m2v and ac3 your problems should be solved. Give it a try.

Edit: another thought I had. You said you were not successful renaming the vobs. This could be because they are split files. If you can merge the vobs and THEN rename it to mpeg, all the header information should line up correctly. If you just rename the parts and try to import them, your video editing software may report them as corrupt and ignore them. In short: do not convert anything, and step one is to join your vobs into a single file. Try using any standard file joiner. You will need to rename your files to get them to work with AJoiner. That is the first solution I would try. After the files are joined, try renaming the output to .mpg. If you are comfortable with the command line, you should be able to merge the files using the copy command (cp) or concat (cat). (eg: cat filename1 filename2 filename3 > finalfile) (to match my previous example from above I would use 'cat VTS_05_*.VOB > output.mpg' As usual, the command line is really the easiest route to take. One line, one command, 3 words, problem solved.

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/19590/ajoiner
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/11052/machacha
http://www.hjsplit.org/mac/
 

LDMartin1959

Member
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
1
wabid said:
Be careful to respect the difference between reencoding and remuxing. As you said you do not need to add a lossy step. MPEG Streamclip looks like it does a lot of stuff.

There is a demux menu, which will let you create a combo m2v and ac3 file. This would be my suggestion.

As I understood it, the MPEG Streamclip option to export to DV was essentially just a remix so that's what I was choosing. You are saying that this is not a remux?

wabid said:
If you are having problems importing your file, it is likely you are taking a misstep within Streamclip.

This is the first part where we differ. I had no problem opening the files. I suspect this is because you are not opening ALL the files or you are opening TOO MANY files...Work on eliminating that error message without adding additional tools/steps/downloads.

I won't disagree, but I'm not sure I see how. It's pretty simple: Select Open DVD from the menu, select the VIDEO_TS folder from the disc, click OK. I think the error message I am getting is from CSS. I have been able to avoid this error message by running it through a program (similar to MtR, but which is of newer, Mountain Lion compatible vintage) and opening the VIDEO_TS folder from the output of that program. At this point, this is the only means of opening the files without the "invalid" error message and I am at a loss as to what else I could try.

wabid said:
If you can merge the vobs and THEN rename it to mpeg, all the header information should line up correctly. If you just rename the parts and try to import them, your video editing software may report them as corrupt and ignore them. In short: do not convert anything, and step one is to join your vobs into a single file. Try using any standard file joiner. You will need to rename your files to get them to work with AJoiner. That is the first solution I would try. After the files are joined, try renaming the output to .mpg. If you are comfortable with the command line...

I wish I was comfortable with the command line. Were this DOS on an IBM-compat I'd be fine -- spent over two decades in that world and started with DOS 3.3 and spent a lot of years there before Windoze ruined my life :oops: -- but the command line on Mac is not something I've really spent any time exploring 'cuz I just don't have the time these days... Not that I would be adverse to it... On the other hand I can copy and paste real well...I'll copy/paste your command line (with appropriate edits for the specific files) and see if I can get that to work. If not, I will give AJoiner a shot.

Addendum: [09:47 PST] Tried the contamination from the command line. That worked until I tried to bring the file into FCx. FCx would not recognize the file as an importable file. Hmmm. Also, on the Demux menu selection, what is the "To Headed" option and what does it do differently?
 

wabid

Well-known member
Messages
567
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
16
It's pretty simple: Select Open DVD from the menu, select the VIDEO_TS folder from the disc

I didn't do that. I pressed open files and opened only the files I wanted.

Ok let's go back to your concatenated file. Was the result a single file that plays in quicktime (or better yet vlc?) Was it the correct size. If your concatenation worked correctly, I think we should base all future steps on this step. Let's try something else. Rename that file back to vob, open the single file in Streamclip and output it as mpg.
 

LDMartin1959

Member
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
1
wabid said:
I didn't do that. I pressed open files and opened only the files I wanted.

Ok let's go back to your concatenated file. Was the result a single file that plays in quicktime (or better yet vlc?) Was it the correct size. If your concatenation worked correctly, I think we should base all future steps on this step. Let's try something else. Rename that file back to vob, open the single file in Streamclip and output it as mpg.

As a side note regarding options offered in previous posts, it seems FCx does not import .m2v. Or at least it will not recognize it as importable. Go figure.

After renaming the concatenated .mpeg file to .vob Streamclip will open the file but I am still getting the "timecode breaks" error message. And yes, it plays back fine in VLC.

When you say "output it as mpg" are you meaning use the "Export to MPEG-4" option? There is a dizzying array of output options there. Do we care about those at the moment?

What about this Apple FCP Uncompressed10-bit 4:2:2 output option? Is that something I should be looking at?
 

wabid

Well-known member
Messages
567
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
16
Hmm. You are correct there is a dizzying array of output options. You could try export to mpeg-4. You could try export to avi. Unfortunately I do not know the terminology of the program for sure. We will need some trial and error to determine if output is a synonym of remux.
 

LDMartin1959

Member
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
1
As you and I were conversing on this I did a bit more research. In a rare turn of events I actually found something that may be useful (my luck at doing searches is terrible. I usually find a bunch of crap information that has little or nothing to do with what I am looking for, but someone else comes along, makes a minor, teeny-tiny change to the search term and finds oodles of information. Oh, well...)

I found a recommendation from a few years back (2009) that said that the best export choice was QT using Apple ProRes 442. Given the age of the recommendations -- and the fact that there seem to be several flavours of 442 to choose from -- still leaves me uncertain and confused, though. I thought that QT was a delivery format (not an intermediate format) that used compression. I'm about to just throw up my hands, find something that gets it into a format that FC will recognize and call it good. :sad:
 

wabid

Well-known member
Messages
567
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
16
Unfortunately "quicktime" is a catchall term that means a whole bunch of things, so terminology does get confusing. In one sense it means the media player, and another the container. In this case ProRes is a codec. If you can get the file into ProRes442 you should be good to go. Unlike our other suggestions it is lossy, but don't worry about it. The data loss will be completely undetectable to a human eye. ProRes will give you a great speed boost with FC.

I am still curious what is causing your timebreaks error.
 

LDMartin1959

Member
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
1
wabid said:
Unfortunately "quicktime" is a catchall term that means a whole bunch of things, so terminology does get confusing. In one sense it means the media player, and another the container. In this case ProRes is a codec. If you can get the file into ProRes442 you should be good to go. Unlike our other suggestions it is lossy, but don't worry about it. The data loss will be completely undetectable to a human eye. ProRes will give you a great speed boost with FC.

I am still curious what is causing your timebreaks error.

Yea, it looks like even after exporting to ProRes I still get the error. Now...if I can just figure out how to get the multi-track audio. I tried "Passthrough". I have audio playback in VLC but FC apparently doesn't see that audio. And the only other audio option seems to be stereo. And I definitely want to try to get the multi-channel so that, if/when necessary, I can isolate the speaking and the music from each other cuz I know there are gonna have to be times I need to do that.

If it isn't one thing, it's another. :eek:
 

Severian

Well-known member
Faneditor
Messages
101
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
21
One avenue you might try is the commercial program Pavtube Video Converter - http://www.pavtube.com/video-converter-mac/. I was having issues with converting for FCP and finally broke down and bought it. It worked great for converting HD footage ripped from blu-ray (via MakeMKV) into ProRes442. The only thing I would avoid the program's built-in video viewer/editor -- it runs very poorly and crashes -- just convert whole chunks of footage with Pavtube and do any actual editing/footage splitting in FCP. Like wabid said, any visual data loss is undetectable, at least to my eyes, and FCP works very smoothly with the ProRes442 material. I'm not sure about multi-track audio, though - I haven't tried that.
 

LDMartin1959

Member
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
1
Severian said:
One avenue you might try is the commercial program Pavtube Video Converter - http://www.pavtube.com/video-converter-mac/. I was having issues with converting for FCP and finally broke down and bought it. It worked great for converting HD footage ripped from blu-ray (via MakeMKV) into ProRes442. The only thing I would avoid the program's built-in video viewer/editor -- it runs very poorly and crashes -- just convert whole chunks of footage with Pavtube and do any actual editing/footage splitting in FCP. Like wabid said, any visual data loss is undetectable, at least to my eyes, and FCP works very smoothly with the ProRes442 material. I'm not sure about multi-track audio, though - I haven't tried that.

I'll look into it. Thanks.
 
Top Bottom