Arrow

I have to say that I am still a bit sore about last season and I think a lot of it has to do with Oliver and Felicity's relationship. It's like a thorn that is still there that I'm waiting to be rid of. I got my hopes up thinking they were about to break up last night, but was saddened they are keeping it going. I literally would've been happier had he been with anyone but Felicity because I just liked seeing 2 people of the opposite sex not trying to sleep together.

That being said, I think the person that is going to die and drive Oliver to kill Dark is Quentin Lance. We know it won't be either of the canaries and Quentin was the one who made a deal with the devil. I doubt it would be Thea and Felicity dying would cause a riot (though she won't be going because IIRC her father is supposed to be a plot point this season). Diggle? It took this long for him to even get a codename and he had to wait 4 season for the black paint on his magneto helmet to dry. Wouldn't it be a waste to kill him NOW?

Unless......he receives a lantern ring? Nah......:noidea:

"Brotherhood" was the directorial debut of legendary tv stunt coordinator James Bamford, thus unsurprisingly the action scenes in this episode were pretty amazing. Lots of low angel, hand held shots... and it almost looks like the actions were shot on video? Either way it brought exciting new energy to show. One has to wonder if Daredevil has some influence on these sequences...?

Speedy's elevator scene was one continuous shot...

Looks like Flash and Arrow are off next week and then return with their two night crossover, featuring the debut of Hawkgirl and Hawkman, and setting the stage for the next spin-off....

I liked "Brotherhood" a lot. There was no real focus on Olicity, so you know I was happy with it. Speedy's elevator scene was awesome and I right away thought "is this a tracking shot? No way!" I'm super pumped for the crossover. Especially since it won't be stand alone episodes like last year.

Oliver: "BARRY! HELP! A Flock of Seagulls just kidnapped Felicity, my sister, and Diggle, and is about to kill them all! We need you!"

Barry: "Sorry, dude, my long-lost half-step-brother just showed up at Joe's Christmas get-together, and it's pretty awkward, so my plate's kinda full at the moment. Best of luck, though, and I'll mail you some of our cookies if you like."

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- Felicity: NOT DEAD. Obvs.


- Anyone else laugh when Ollie told his bastard's old lady "My mother was a complicated person, but she would never have bribed a pregnant fling of mine to bugger off?" He's talking about the same woman who helped kidnap her own son and husband and aided a plot to destroy a large chunk of the city, right?!


It's time, once again, for some AV Clubbers' snark!

So... Laurel totally used an orbiting starship's transporter to get to Nanda Parbat and back, right? Because she totally went over there to chat with Nyssa, then was back in the Arrow Cave practically the next scene. The writers have done this several times before, but this time it was particularly blatant, especially when they could easily and simply have established that Nyssa was temporarily chilling in a Canadian mountains League temple, not the Asia/global HQ itself.

And the League is gone now, is it? That might be mildly interesting to us audience members if we'd been given any indication of what they actually do up until now. They Assassin people? For money, or on principle? It's all been so damn vague.

Anyone else remember when characters had real-world issues on this show? Like alcoholism, or jobs? I remember that Laurel used to be a lawyer, and she recently claimed to still be a DA, yeah? How has she not been fired yet for skimping on her job while doing Team Arrow stuff?

I hate to say it, but I'm really starting to actively dislike the show. Everything's just variations on what we've seen before (what was the point of ghost-Shado telling flashback Ollie to let go of the darkness when we know damn well he'll do no such thing?!), The Flash is lots more fun and still fresh (I haven't even had time for Legends of Tomorrow), ARGUS was a whole lotta nuthin' even before Waller was killed and the League of Assassins was never much better, and the thought of Ollie's illegitimate son being endangered by Lt. Hawk just bores me to tears. (Also, Paul Blackthorne's been seriously underused.) Meanwhile, the Island flashbacks are even more pointless than last year's, which at least had the urban change of scenery to recommend them. :-(

WOW!

I am the complete opposite. I am so loving this season!!! The pacing has been electric, I love the positive, mostly (LOL) healthy relationship between Ollie and Felicity, Darhk is a delicious villain..... yeah, maybe a little less Real World and more Comic Booky, but that is a good thing for me.

I must of missed the establishing shot, I though Laurel found Nyssa in Star City, hanging out in some abandoned warehouse or something as they have done in the past? Since Nyssa is fugitive from the League, it would be weird for her to hanging out in Nanda Parbat? I will have to watch again.

I completely agree though the Flashback story has been dull and mostly pointless so far. Also don't understand the idea of cutting Ollie's hair (other than the actor not liking the wig?), as he has now has only year to look like caveman again like he did in the pilot. Not to mention learn fluent Russian and join their mafia. And yes, the wonderful Blackthorne has been sadly underused these last few episodes.

I am totally intrigued with the Flashforward/Who's in the Grave storyline. I am leaning heavily towards Ollie's son or Baby Mama at this point. Though it could still be a member of Team Arrow.

But yeah, this has been a fun season for me. A vast improvement over season three.

Yeah, I guess Nyssa and Laurel met in Star City, must have gotten confused there, though IIRC the set they were in looked pretty cave-like.

I agree S3 didn't come together all that well, but I found the whole uber-plot of Ollie being groomed to be the next Rha's pretty compelling in general, whereas Dum Dum's plan to poison the world with corn or something is just lame, no matter how well he twirls his mustache. Another problem is what with The Flash and all, the Arrowverse keeps getting bigger, but Arrow the show is getting smaller, and too repetitious. And I do think Team Arrow has gotten too big, and that having to cut back and forth among the whole gang takes the punch out of the action scenes. Digg's helmet looks silly, now that Laurel's got her act together she's become boring, and I miss Thea having a purpose in life apart from being Speedy. And even though Ray Palmer's character was a weird fit for S3's grimness, Routh brought a playful energy on the good guy side that's been lacking.

I too really like Ollie and Felicity's relationship, but that alone won't keep me watching. If the person in the grave is Ollie's biological kid (he's only spoken to him once; that doesn't make him his son), or the kid's mother, that would be incredibly lame. Really, anyone besides Laurel would strike me as a bad move, but honestly, I think that right now, I'm done regardless, so they can do what they like. The show had two great seasons, and sometimes that's enough.

*shrug*

So the death they have been flash forwarding since the season premiere occurred in tonight's episode.

My theory -- FAKE!

^ No.

I've read from several different sources/sites that the producers said this death is final.

That being said, I'm not happy about it because this show has taken a direction I'm REALLY not happy about.  Obviously it doesn't have to stay close to the source material, but too many changes kind of bothers me.  Killing off the Lois to Arrow's Superman is silly!  Granted they kind of flubbed her character a few times when they could've taken it the distance, but I was hoping by seasons end we'd be back on track.  I stood up and cheered when Olicity broke up.  Please don't let them get back together.

Here's what I don't get.....there are so many big Green Arrow stories they could be adapting for the show (Longbow Hunters for example) that would be great, but they keep trying to fire off shots in the dark lately and hope for the best.  Last season really didn't need to include Ra's al Ghul as much as they did.

Anyone remember that Super Max movie that was supposed to be made forever ago about Green Arrow wrongfully convicted and sent to a Super Max prison with other comic book villains (Riddler, Joker, etc) and him trying to escape while encountering these foes?  Some sort of adaptation of that would've been pretty cool for maybe a 2-parter.  The Quiver storyline even.

I'm trying to continue being a die hard fan, but it's getting more and more difficult I have to say.  Season 1 and 2 were SO good.

Gaith said:

^ No.

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musiced921 said:

I've read from several different sources/sites that the producers said this death is final.

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So I have been reading.   I guess Laurel's last words will be revealed in season 5????  Odd.
The death was written and edited weird.  It felt like to me the producers were trying to leave wiggle room if they want to bring Laurel back.

Not really certain how I feel about the death of Laurel Lance ( I won't say the death of Black Canary, as someone else will most likely take up the mantle).   I know in comic lore, she is Ollie's true love.  But in tv reality, the two actors did not have very good chemistry and Laurel always felt like a weaker character, at least until this past year, when she really blossomed with her own storyline.  

But in a series where magic and time travel exist, will she stay dead?

So I think the Island Flashbacks seem to be setting up Ollie to go Russia next.   I was thinking the producers could easily stretch out the flashbacks beyond season 5, as they do not have to occur in real time with the present.  Honestly, this season's worth of flashbacks probably only works out to be a few weeks to couple of months of time at most.

While I find this season more fun than last season, I agree that the show is not as strong as seasons one and two.  Is it the price of an expanding, connecting and overlapping tv universe?   Are the producers stretched too thin over too many shows?  

[video=dailymotion]

musiced921 said:

Here's what I don't get.....there are so many big Green Arrow stories they could be adapting for the show (Longbow Hunters for example) that would be great, but they keep trying to fire off shots in the dark lately and hope for the best.  Last season really didn't need to include Ra's al Ghul as much as they did.

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I don't know the GA comics at all, so all I know is my opinion that Laurel should've stuck with her legal work for or against Team Arrow, and never become the new, non-improved Canary in the first place. As I said before, I actually liked her alcoholism storyline in S2, helping keep things grounded. There are too many masks on the show now, IMO. (I would also have preferred Thea either become a full-on villainness with Malcolm or maybe Waller's protege than replace Roy herself, for the record.)

musiced921 said:

Anyone remember that Super Max movie that was supposed to be made forever ago about Green Arrow wrongfully convicted and sent to a Super Max prison with other comic book villains (Riddler, Joker, etc) and him trying to escape while encountering these foes?  Some sort of adaptation of that would've been pretty cool for maybe a 2-parter.

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Unfortunately, they completely botched that potential as a subplot for Roy in that one S3 ep. :-/

Gaith said:

Unfortunately, they completely botched that potential as a subplot for Roy in that one S3 ep. :-/

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Ugh, you're right!  Damn!

Nope.

No, thank you; very kind, but I'm good.

Nein. Nyet.

No, no, no.

See y'all next Flash crossover, I guess?

Gaith said:

Nope.

No, thank you; very kind, but I'm good.

Nein. Nyet.

No, no, no.

See y'all next Flash crossover, I guess?

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Really?  I actually liked what I saw in that clip you shared.  Don't get me wrong, I'm still SUPER annoyed about the creative changes they've made, and I don't believe anything can actually happen with Olicity ending until their contracts are up after this season.  Outside of that BS, I think the other stuff looks intriguing and it was nice they gave Oliver so much screen time on the Felicity show.

Season four..... what to say?

It started out really, really strong and I was digging the new vibe.    I did not mind the whole Olicity thing, especially when it was well written as it was in the beginning of the season.  It was refreshing to see Ollie happy and actually in a honest healthy co-supportive relationship -- but being tv, the writers could not let it last and once the secret son was revealed the writing became ludicrous, the characters became stupid and even I could not stand Felicity.

In fact, once Arrow (and the Flash) completed all the heavy lifting of setting up the Legends spin-off and returned after it's mid-season break, the show just seemed lose all of it's focus, drive and urgency.   I mean, Team Arrow had to save THE WHOLE WORLD from nuclear holocaust but the stakes never felt dire and thus their victories never felt satisfying.

Also the writers need to be braver and return more to character.  Ollie runs for Mayor.  But not once did we see Ollie do anything political or explore his political beliefs.   The Green Arrow is famous in the comics for his political views, but this is never touched on in the show.   They built an entire episode around Ollie having a political debate with Mrs Darhk, but they NEVER SHOWED IT!?!?!   Instead, they lamely cut to the end of the debate and congratulate Ollie on an amazing victory!  WTF!!!  

Darhk was a refreshing villain and revitalized/stole every scene he was in.  Too bad the writers did not know what to do with him.  Much like Raz last year, he was underdeveloped and his motivations unclear.   Also, by creating a villain so powerful, the writers seem at a lost at how to defeat him.    To say the finale was underwhelming would be a massive understatement.

They finally made Black Canary interesting and then they killed her in the lamest way possible.  Though oddly, Katie Cassidy's contract has been renewed to appear on any/all of the DC Berlanti Universe shows (Miller and Barrowman have signed similar contracts).  So is she not dead?  Time travel?  Evil Earth 2 counterpart?

The Island flashbacks were absolutely horrible this season and a complete waste of time.  Thankfully, producers have confirmed season five will close out Ollie's flashback island adventures.   If there is a season six, they may use flashback to flesh out the supporting cast.

One of the mistakes to me was the obvious attempt by the producers to inject more humour and lightness into the show in the same vein as its counter part as the Flash and I think they went overboard with this at times.   Arrow is their Batman show, and while the sidekicks can bring levity when required, the show needs to maintain a level moody darkness, it can not become a full on comedy.   And at times, especially with Felicity and Curtis Holt scenes, the show would go too far off the rails into Cisco territory.    The producers need to be more confident and let each show have its own separate tone.

Season four was also hit hard by the DC character embargo, losing most of their Suicide Squad related characters, causing the producers to change some story lines.   Hopefully, now that Geoff Johns is full on president of all things DC media related, this will change.

About the only storyline I really liked in the second half of the season was the conflict between Diggle and his brother.  I thought it brought some much need weight and pathos back to the show.

And yet, after all of that and an uninspiring Comic-Con teaser, I still hold out hope for the coming Season Five... lol.  
I mean, it can't get worse.
Can it?   :blush:

Season Five synopsis:

[font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif]"Newly appointed Mayor Oliver Queen finds himself challenged as he fights on two fronts for the future of Star City. With Diggle back in the military and Thea adamant about hanging up her hood as Speedy, Team Green Arrow is down to just Oliver and Felicity – but they’re no longer the only vigilantes in town. Green Arrow’s public defeat of Damien Darhk at the end of Season Four has inspired a new crop of masked heroes to step up and defend the city, though their painful inexperience makes them obstacles, rather than allies, in the field. The arrival of a deadly new adversary will force Oliver to confront questions about his own legacy, both as mayor and as the Green Arrow."[/font]

My biggest gripe with this show is all the debating and friction between the main cast. Can't they just get along for one full episode?


Posted from my portable device using Tapatalk

^ Indeed.

bionicbob said:

About the only storyline I really liked in the second half of the season was the conflict between Diggle and his brother.  I thought it brought some much need weight and pathos back to the show.

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Really? I found that possibly the worst aspect of the whole season, tied with the pointless Olicity drama, which I agree should have remained the stable relationship S4 started with. Not only was Digg's brother a charisma vacuum from the actor's standpoint, Digg's constantly shifting attitude (hostility toward the brother for not being trustworthy one week, hostility toward Oliver for not trusting the brother the next, rinse, repeat, repeat) was beyond tiresome, and it was yet another hacky dead character resurrection we didn't need one bit. (Stay tuned for Earth-2 Laurel, who's already shown up on The Flash, sticking around for more of the same. Sigh.) They should have gone all in with the magic stuff, and brought specificity to the political arc with all that utterly wasted screen time.

As for S5's new vigilantes storyline... no, I don't want that one bit. The first two seasons were a great extended origin story, with Ollie essentially becoming the Arrow at the end of the S2 flashbacks as he faced his greatest foe again in the present, but while the League of Assassins plot line held some promise, it's clear the show has no real idea what to do since then, with Slade defeated and flashback Ollie a hardened killer. A big leap forward in terms of depth might have kept things going, to do a grand urban saga like The Wire with a Batman expy for the CW crowd, and for a while in S2 it looked like things might actually go in that direction. Alas, at this point I've no confidence in the show's ability to recover.

New promo!  Looks better.....

I like this poster.  Not as badly photoshopped as many of the CW DC Shows usually are....

But the Northern Canadian and former BC west coast resident in me finds the new costume hilarious lol.   
Last season, during the Flash team-up, Barry made a comment about Ollie's previous new costume having no sleeves, asking him doesn't he get cold?  
And Ollie's awesome badass response was something like, "I was alone on the Island for 5 years, I don't get cold".

But this season the producers had to give Green Arrow sleeves due to the cold/wet Vancouver weather.... Ollie's gotten soft.  LOL