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Doctor Who

addiesin

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Zarius, I believe it was the general tone in replies and specifically the accusatory "applauding it for woke points" comment, which described something nobody here did. I could be wrong, but your reaction being "I wasn't attacking anyone" and then going on about others being sensitive etc comes across as another attack, somewhat contradictory. 

Handman, the first and last line of your post is somewhat contradictory as well. People should be able to feel how they feel without being told they're being absurd. 



I don't think current Who has changed much at all, which I've made clear before with you, Zarius. There were always things that take you out of the show. Trash can burps, alien farts, a whole family sniffing loudly, Dobby Doctor, the Absorbaloff, human fat that develops into sentient life with distinct body parts including faces, a leaf killing a sun demon, clunky stompy Cybermen who couldn't sneak up on a deaf person, a forest that deus-ex-machina's a teenage girl back to life, the moon abortion, robotic voices and noises that repeat mercilessly. 

These are all things that I think are wrong with the show, yet I love the show and overlook them because I find just as much to appreciate, if not more. I'm personally not going to choose to stop doing that just because other people complain about it, as though it's done something significantly worse, or doesn't have anything to offer. I don't feel as though I'm resistant to "any form of critique" but at the same time, I'm really uninterested in opinions that just rag on the show constantly. If I wanted to hear someone call Doctor Who garbage, I'd just talk to my wife.

man-shurgging.jpg
 

Zarius

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addiesin said:
 If I wanted to hear someone call Doctor Who garbage, I'd just talk to my wife.

man-shurgging.jpg

I want custody of me!
 

Hymie

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Zarius said:
Handman said:
Where was the attacking?  People can disagree and still have a discussion.

I'm really disappointed with Star Trek, Star Wars, and now Doctor Who for seemingly not understanding what made them so appealing to me in the first place.  You mention Letts and Dicks, but they don't sit you on their lap and tell you what the moral of the story was. You figure it out for yourself through well developed characters, great plot, and symbolic themes. The way Chibnall delivers a message is condescending and with all the nuance of a sledgehammer. Even when I agree with it, I'm annoyed. 

To be ashamed because other people are disappointed with the way the show is going at the moment is frankly absurd.

Thankyou. I wasn't attacking anyone, but unfortunately Doctor Who breeds a sub-culture of people who are sensitive and ridiculously resistant to any form of critique levelled at it. I should know because I used to be one of those people.

You are correct, Classic Who told a story first, the messages were there, but the stories were so strong, they were invisible at a certain age and got more apparent as your mind broadened. Now they'd rather spell it out for you fairly blatantly in the middle of a story, and the real world problems take you out of the immersion.

Don't forget though, you are viewing these new episodes from a completely different spectrum being older and more aware of what is being done as you are more aware.  Kids aren't going to view things the same way as adults, its a simple fact of life, and we unfortunately never can go back to that simpler, more naive mindset.

As for my previous comments, they were more generally about how people are so quick to judge things nowadays and if they don't like something, feel the need to make it known whenever possible.  The continued hate that TLJ and Rian Johnson gets online, in places that have nothing to do with Star Wars at all is sickening, and just shows the dark underbelly of the internet and how it can breed hate so easily.  If I offended anyone directly I apologize, though if it makes one person think twice about posting a hate-filled negative comment when a simple no comment is appropriate, I'll be happy.  There's plenty of room for discussion about the good and bad of the show, let's just try to keep every civil and cheery.  

Of course, if the leaks about the finale prove to be true, I suspect that will become a difficult task.   :(
 

Zarius

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I apologise for potentially grouping people in here with a certain sub-culture, I've had a lot of bad experiences with members of other Who forums, either for or against the show, that really make one rethink their priorities with this show at the worst of times.

I will say though that I still enjoy the show personally, I also don't think my faults with the show are due to being a grown up, I just think things are more blatant now than they used to be. This stuff was present even in Capaldi's last series but I didn't notice...and by this point I was 33/34 years old. Hardly a naive age. :p
 

addiesin

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It does warm my heart at least a little to see these disagreements de-escalate and get more civil. There is far too much hate online these days, as Hymie said. Thanks guys.
 

Handman

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Handman, the first and last line of your post is somewhat contradictory as well. People should be able to feel how they feel without being told they're being absurd. 

I disagree. If you're being silly, I'm going to say you're being silly. Feeling ashamed on the behalf of other people's views on a TV show seems strange to me, it has nothing to do with you personally, and you are more than welcome to keep watching.  But really, ashamed?  That's kinda strong.
Don't forget though, you are viewing these new episodes from a completely different spectrum being older and more aware of what is being done as you are more aware. 

This is also not quite right. I enjoyed the show immensely just a few years ago, and spent much of this year watching some Pertwee era episodes for the very first time. I enjoyed them so much more than the current show. So this doesn't stack up.

The show is different, I mean, they wouldn't have went to all the effort to essentially reboot the show in 2018 if it wasn't going to be very different.  But by delegitimizing the opposing view by saying stuff like "the show was always this way, but you were too young to see it" isn't quite right either.
 

addiesin

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Handman said:
Handman, the first and last line of your post is somewhat contradictory as well. People should be able to feel how they feel without being told they're being absurd. 

I disagree. If you're being silly, I'm going to say you're being silly. Feeling ashamed on the behalf of other people's views on a TV show seems strange to me, it has nothing to do with you personally, and you are more than welcome to keep watching.  But really, ashamed?  That's kinda strong.
This is how I interpret it. When a group earns a poor reputation and you simultaneously identify with the group and understand the nature of the reputation but reject it for yourself, shame seems to me like the natural description. It may be strong but I think it's relative.

I enjoy Rick and Morty, but I don't tell people that because "Rick and Morty fans" became a thing, and a negative thing at that. It doesn't mean I don't watch or enjoy the show, but I don't want to be grouped with the people who act disrespectfully in the name of the show.
 

Handman

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See, I just like what I like and don't really pay attention to groups or what it means to other people.  Like back when Doctor Who, Sherlock, and Supernatural was a thing.  I was never embarrassed to say I was a fan of Doctor Who, but when someone assumed something about me because of it, I'd just laugh it off.
 

wilhelm scream

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The best thing about the new batch of episodes, is that Big Finish have loads of sales (which is convenient for people who don't have a lot of spare money, like me).
 

Handman

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From what I can tell, it's only to make it as limited as the other sets.  It's already selling out in some places.
 

Zarius

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Ooof, I get what they were going for with the Doc/Graham stuff at the end of the episode, but that was handled very shoddily, especially in light of how empathetic other Doctors have been in the past despite their awkwardness. This felt very Capaldi, only his lack of awareness was more endearing and he at least used cue cards.

Also, they wound up running out of ideas for the villains with ten minutes to spare and had to give Yasmin a massive big scene to pad it out
 

Hymie

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Zarius said:
Ooof, I get what they were going for with the Doc/Graham stuff at the end of the episode, but that was handled very shoddily, especially in light of how empathetic other Doctors have been in the past despite their awkwardness. This felt very Capaldi, only his lack of awareness was more endearing and he at least used cue cards.

Also, they wound up running out of ideas for the villains with ten minutes to spare and had to give Yasmin a massive big scene to pad it out

Well, I think that they're trying to show that The Doctor is isolating herself from the companions and retreating away following the Spyfall revelation.  Directly after Graham asks the question, we cut to Yaz and Ryan talking about distrusting the Doc and their futures, so I think we are setting up the companions leaving.  No doubt the scene itself was bad and far too drawn out, but I get what they were going for.

Honestly, I enjoyed the episode, but the villains were dispatched far too easily.  I get what Chibnall is going for, trying to emulate that early Tennant style at times, but I wish he would just stick with what he wants to do rather than trying to please everyone as that's obviously never going to happen, especially with a show like this whose fan base stretches across all age groups.

At this point, I am definitely enjoying the season as other than the dreadful Orphan 55 every episode has had something to keep me interested and entertained.  Hopefully he can stick the landing, but we know that's a problem with him so color me cautiously optimistic of a good final 3 episodes.
 

TM2YC

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I thought given the Aleppo setting the subject of this week's Doctor Who lecture  :D was going to be the Syrian war but it was about mental health instead. That bit between the Doc and Graham was maybe my favourite bit all series but it did feel like out of place with this version of the character. It's those "oh yeah the Doc really is a weird alien after all" moments that I loved about Capaldi.

Next weeks episode set at the famous Shelley Gothic-Horror weekend has the potential be tons of fun, if they lean into the Hammer-Horror atmosphere.
 

addiesin

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TM2YC said:
Next weeks episode set at the famous Shelley Gothic-Horror weekend has the potential be tons of fun, if they lean into the Hammer-Horror atmosphere.

It better be good if they're explicitly decanonizing one of my favorite McGann audios. (Mary's Story)
 

wilhelm scream

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addiesin said:
TM2YC said:
Next weeks episode set at the famous Shelley Gothic-Horror weekend has the potential be tons of fun, if they lean into the Hammer-Horror atmosphere.

It better be good if they're explicitly decanonizing one of my favorite McGann audios. (Mary's Story)

Blame the faction Paradox (or the Time War).
 

addiesin

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I'm a little late going through this new season but luckily the BBC America app still has all the episodes streamable. I just got through Orphan 55. I have to agree with all who have said before me, that was... not great. Glad to see the opinion of the following episodes is higher, I have something better to look forward to.
 

Hymie

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It really is a shame that Orphan 55 was the third episode as it likely turned away many for future episodes that have missed out on some great stories.  For me, this is the best and most consistent season since 5.  Hopefully we'll have a good finale, but those spoilers do have me worried it'll be a mess.  Hopefully I'm greatly mistaken.
 
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