• Most new users don't bother reading our rules. Here's the one that is ignored almost immediately upon signup: DO NOT ASK FOR FANEDIT LINKS PUBLICLY. First, read the FAQ. Seriously. What you want is there. You can also send a message to the editor. If that doesn't work THEN post in the Trade & Request forum. Anywhere else and it will be deleted and an infraction will be issued.
  • If this is your first time here please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot, especially our Own the Source rule. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.
  • Please read our Rules & Guidelines

Doctor Who

TM2YC

Take Me To Your Cinema
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
14,869
Reaction score
2,379
Trophy Points
228
As was mentioned ^^ 'Enemy of the World' is excellent but due to what I can only assume was a rush release for the 50th Anniversary contains none of the usual fascinating extra features. Might wanna hold off for a SE version of that release?

I've also been trying to catchup on the classic era pieces that I've missed. From what I've seen I'd buy anything that has Pertwee in it. Especially the Joe Grant run. She had such a great chemistry with Pertwee. His stories seem to capture something magical between deep and serious political allegory and good plain goofy fun. This is probably down to the team of Terence Dicks and Barry Letts. I can reccomend...

Colony in Space
The Dæmons
Day of the Daleks
The Sea Devils
The Mutants
Planet of the Spiders


From the other Doctors, I'd reccomend these from what hasn't already been mentioned...

The Keys of Marinus (William Hartnell)
The Krotons (Patrick Troughton)
The Seeds of Death (Patrick Troughton)
The Sun Makers (Tom Baker)
City of Death (Tom Baker)
The King's Demons (Peter Davison)
Warriors of the Deep (Peter Davison)
Attack of the Cybermen (Colin Baker)
Time and the Rani (Sylvester McCoy)
Silver Nemesis (Sylvester McCoy)
The Curse of Fenric (Sylvester McCoy)

Generally, the Leela run with Tom Baker and Ace and McCoy are highlihts for me. This video has probably been posted before but it gives a nice glimpse at all the serials...

 

hebrides

Well-known member
Cover Artist
Messages
3,434
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
46
Re Web of Fear: I have held off on that for now, as episode 3 (the one where the Brig, then Col. Lethbridge-Stewart) first appears, is currently missing. Rumors are rife that it has since been found and/or was withheld at the time for some unknown reason (be it failed negotiations, too much damage to be ready in time, or something else), so I am holding off until there's definitive word about whether it will appear. I have seen clips, though, and it (the story, not ep 3 -- sorry for any confusion!) looks fantastic.

Also, its beginning is a direct continuation of Enemy of the World, so they are meant to be a set, and hopefully will be a complete one some day...

I am not terribly familiar with Colin Baker or McCoy's runs, though I did go to an outdoor convention in Connecticut when I was a kid where I got to hear Colin speak (in the rain). I remember when someone asked him if he was related to Tom, he said, "He's my grandfather!' (two regenerations apart = grandfather...). I have seen The Two Doctors and liked most of it -- the first nine minutes, which feature Troughton and Jamie together in the old TARDIS, start in black and white and are magical. I've also seen Remembrance of the Daleks from McCoy and was riveted from start to finish, which is no mean feat considering they probably spent a total of $50 on it ;-)

I do quite like Anthony Ainley as The Master -- he is very good at emulating Delgado without overtly copying him, though he plays The Master as a bit more unhinged (though not as much as John Simm in NuWho). I mostly know him from Davison's run, and I think they had very good chemistry. Most of the Turlough episodes of Davison's run are quite good too, IMHO -- he has one of the most interesting stories of all the companions.

Tom has so many stories -- good, bad, and everything in between -- but you're almost always guaranteed a good performance from him, and he's probably the one actor who played The Doctor most like himself (and has admitted as much). Fortunately, he's a very interesting, eccentric, and captivating person in real life as well...

I totally agree about Pertwee, BTW -- it was a great, great era. My wife and I actually prefer Liz Shaw to Jo Grant, since she (at least at first) was a scientist who could (almost) keep up with The Doctor; later, she became a scientist who more often was relegated to fetching tea, which I thought was a shame. Jo starts off as a bit of a dimwit, but she does grow over the course of her run, and I thought that she actually made some meaningful contributions in some of the stories. His Sarah Jane stories were few, but also good overall, I think; I particularly liked her introduction as a "modern woman" of the 1980s (the UNIT stories in this era are supposed to be set a few years in the future) in The Time Warrior. Also, Pertwee was a consummate comedian before becoming The Doctor, and the role allowed him to capitalize on that (particularly in his interactions with the Brig) while at the same time drawing on his real-life love of gadgets and his (then very well-concealed) past as an actual spy in WWII.
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
My newest Dr. Who dvds arrived yesterday...

Cracked open the Beneath the Surface collection and watched THE SILURIANS last night -- really enjoyed it! Never seen it before and it was cool to see how it connects to the Matt Smith era. Hope to watch THE SEA DEVILS tonight.

Also opened the New Beginnings collection, and watch the documentary A NEW BODY AT LAST. I am always stunned and amazed at how direct and honest the interviewed actors, producers and writers are on these Dr. Who dvd! It not something I am used to seeing, particularly in American tv show dvd sets... you would rarely hear an actor or producer express their dislike for each other or how difficult they were to work with... it is very refreshing.

Only 3 more days til the new adventures begin....
 

matrixgrindhouse

Well-known member
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
111
Trophy Points
73
I'm not sure what to think about this. It wasn't a bad episode. Jenny, Strax, and Vastra were great as always. The plot felt incomplete to me. Maybe we'll get more details later in the season that'll better flesh it out. But as a single story, it wasn't particularly compelling. The Doctor had moments that were absolutely in keeping with the character... and a lot that felt wrong to me. Perhaps my untrained American ears are partially to blame for not immediately warming to Capaldi; I couldn't understand maybe 25% of his dialogue. The season story arc they seem to be setting up has potential, though. I'll keep on going, but my excitement levels have dropped by a fair margin. 6/10
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
Deep Breath just finished.

I will try to keep my comments general but there may be some very minor spoilers. ;-)

A strong debut for Capaldi but a middle of the road plot over all.

Regeneration episodes are my least favourite both of the new and old series (though Matt Smith's Eleventh Hour may be the best of the bunch imo) as they all have to follow the same general formula.

I really enjoyed Clara's performance, I think she really drove this episode. Her scene with Vash was great and when she thought the Doctor abandoned her was amazing.

Capaldi himself brings a new energy to the role. Though it is hard to completely judge since he really does not come into his own til the last 10-15 minutes. I look forward to the next couple episodes to see how his character evolves. Though I though Moffat hammered home the point that this may be a darker Doctor way too much.

I liked the re-introduced mystery of who is helping the Doctor and Clara. It gives me hope Moffat does have an actual master story plan.

The direction, editing, staging and cinematography felt a bit off to me, particularly for a big premiere relaunch episode. It almost had a low budget feel. Some of the fx looked bad compared to previous seasons, and the big battle between the robots and Vash and the gang looked very awkward and reminded me of the wobbly soundstage days.... lol.

I loved the last scene with the Doctor
or should I say DOCTORS
and Clara was brilliant. It worked on many levels... connecting/wrapping up a past mystery scene, the passing of the baton and reassuring the audience that no matter the new face, mannerisms or accent ("I am Scottish! Now I can complain!" LOL), at his hearts and soul, the Doctor is still the same Time Lord.

I would give it a low 7 out of 10. :thumb:
 

hebrides

Well-known member
Cover Artist
Messages
3,434
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
46
I think this is one that will reward repeated viewing. I too struggled a bit with some of the lines, but I found that to be due (as it was in several of the last Matt Smith episodes) to the music being too high in the mix. I generally do not have a problem understanding Capaldi, but there were times I missed lines from him, as well as several other characters. I thought it was a nice touch when
Vastra calms him down by speaking in a Scottish accent, particularly since it allowed Neve McIntosh, who plays Vastra, to speak in her natural accent for once
.

I also think the pacing of the episode -- longer scenes, with moments of breakneck action instead of a rollercoaster all the way through -- makes a nice change, and at times hearkens back to the classic era (and the running time is just about equivalent to a three-parter from the classic era). I hope they keep that up, as it allows the actors more room to breathe (no pun intended) and the characters more room to develop. I think that's one reason Clara comes across so well here -- for the first time, she actually has time to be a character, and not just a mystery/plot device.

One puzzling bit was
Matt claiming that his time wasn't long when he looked like the young Eleven, since we see him age so radically before he actually begins regenerating in the previous episode. Unless he called right before he met Clara and fully regenerated (since he technically had two regen scenes), it seems to me to be a bit of an oversight, possibly to ease the transition for the really young fans who have never known another Doctor.

I would not count the episode among the best of the best, but I think it was a solid introduction overall that shows that, despite the fears of some fans, Moffat hasn't yet completely lost the plot -- we will apparently get some development out of
who gave Clara the TARDIS's number, which was one of the huge dangling plot holes from last season
. There are many moments that suggest that Capaldi could be truly great (as expected, but nice to be confirmed), and I'm looking forward to what comes next.

Also, Bob, your Trek bias is showing -- I love Vash too, but I think you meant Vastra ;-)
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
hebrides said:
Also, Bob, your Trek bias is showing -- I love Vash too, but I think you meant Vastra ;-)


Oops! :lol::lol::lol:
 

TM2YC

Take Me To Your Cinema
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
14,869
Reaction score
2,379
Trophy Points
228
bionicbob said:
A strong debut for Capaldi but a middle of the road plot over all.

Glad it wasn't just me then. Capaldi was absolutely fantastic, so why was he only in half of it and absent/asleep for the rest? The whole script seemed to be about re-assuring the shows newer fair-weather fans (through Clara) instead of reassuring them by being a great episode. Hopefully things will settle down now that's out of the way and we can enjoy the rest of the series.

bionicbob said:
The direction, editing, staging and cinematography felt a bit off to me, particularly for a big premiere relaunch episode. It almost had a low budget feel. Some of the fx looked bad compared to previous seasons, and the big battle between the robots and Vash and the gang looked very awkward and reminded me of the wobbly soundstage days.... lol.

It was not only Ben Wheatley's first Who but his first Sci-Fi and FX shoot as far as I can work out. His direction and camera positions were woeful. It was all very slap-dash and his inexperience showed in shots like the extreme closeups of Strax's makeup peeling off :oops:. Sadly he's directed the next episode too. It wasn't just his fault though, the FX team are to blame as well. The scene of The Doctor on the roof looking at the T-Rex was so badly aligned. The Doctor was staring off to the left and the T-Rex was in the middle :x.

bionicbob said:
I loved the last scene with the Doctor

I hated it because again it was all about reassuring the fair-weather fans. Jamming in a cameo just shouted uncertainty to me. There was no need to be cautious, Capaldi rocked.

matrixgrindhouse said:
Jenny, Strax, and Vastra were great as always.

Strax was funny but I couldn't care less about the other two. Why was the whole episode about them instead of The Doctor? He was the only thing I wanted to see.

matrixgrindhouse said:
Perhaps my untrained American ears are partially to blame for not immediately warming to Capaldi; I couldn't understand maybe 25% of his dialogue. The season story arc they seem to be setting up has potential, though. I'll keep on going, but my excitement levels have dropped by a fair margin. 6/10

It wasn't just you, I had a little trouble understanding Capaldi too and I live on the border with Scotland. Nothing to do with his performance, I just think the soundmixing or the sound-recording was very poorly done.
 

matrixgrindhouse

Well-known member
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
111
Trophy Points
73
It sounded fine on my 5.1 system; can't vouch for stereo. Then again, my standards for "bad Doctor Who audio mixing" were set by Series 1. That had a really overblown music to dialogue ratio.

You put it perfectly, [MENTION=24292]TM2YC[/MENTION]. They kept telling us that things were still the same, but it never felt the same. It reminds me a lot of that first special with Tennant. He was unconscious for most of it as well, with Micky and the rest getting the bulk of the screen time. At the end, he promised things would still be "fantastic" - a catchphrase that was instantly abandoned thereafter. It sends a very bad message for the audience they're targeting. New fans shouldn't be led to believe that he'll just be Matt in a new body. The Doctor is more complicated than that. The Eleventh Hour was a much, much better example of doing that right. The bit at the end, where The Doctor summons the hostile fleet back to Earth, and warns them that it is protected? That tells us that he is still The Doctor. Getting another farewell from Matt was touching, but it left me in the exact opposite emotional state that they should have. We're supposed to be looking forward to getting to know this new face, these new mannerisms. Instead, I was left with bittersweet nostalgia. I actively thought to myself, "I really wish he hadn't quit." The Amy callback left a similar impression.

And I'm with you all on the effects issues. I can live with CGI dinosaurs looking fake, but they couldn't even get the elevator (sorry, lift) dangling scene to look convincing. I couldn't help but imagine Peter slowly standing up from a crouch out of frame. I'm concerned that the last few specials got the production crew too accustomed to higher effects budgets that they no longer have access to.
 

Linten1

Well-known member
Messages
125
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
16
The opening credits rocked. Capaldi pulled it all together in the end. I never like the trio (Jenny, Vestra, and Strax) Jenny is as pointless a character as Kamelion was. So having them in it did nothing for me. Clara did a wonderful job acting as usual.

The story was kinda hit you over the head preachy and the double meaning of almost all the dialogue was insulting at times. They literally where begging us to give Capaldi a chance and if we didn't we where just idiots. Insulting the audience is nothing new tho. It was a regular affair with Moffitt so...oh well.

I thought some of the photography was reminiscent of the Pertwee era. I really liked those touches. And the dialogue reminded me of some of the Baker era.

All in all I can't wait for the next ep.

p.s. Am I the only one who has noticed that the first episode of each new Doctor is more like an episode of the previous Doctors Doctor? The second episode of each new Doctor is really where the story and tone always change and the newness is felt.
 

matrixgrindhouse

Well-known member
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
111
Trophy Points
73
Linten1 said:
The opening credits rocked.

Yes! Forgot to mention those. Terrific both as a concept and from a visual standpoint. Classy and mesmerizing. Probably my favorite sequence of the entire franchise, honestly. To think it was originally a fan video that Moffat chanced upon is just all kinds of awesome. The new version of the theme music is interesting. Has bits and pieces of the three 1980s versions.
 

TM2YC

Take Me To Your Cinema
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
14,869
Reaction score
2,379
Trophy Points
228
matrixgrindhouse said:
Probably my favorite sequence of the entire franchise, honestly. To think it was originally a fan video that Moffat chanced upon is just all kinds of awesome

Oh yes Moffat said that on the making-of extra feature, I meant to look it up, thanks for reminding me.

Original fan version by Billy Hanshaw aka billydakiduk...


Final Official Version...


Well done that faneditor!
 

TomH1138

Well-known member
Messages
2,819
Reaction score
43
Trophy Points
53
"Deep Breath" was a vast improvement over "Time of the Doctor."

What particularly stood out to me was that the overall tone and feel of the episode was quite different than what we're used to seeing. There was a darker, grittier edge to the proceedings (without going overboard into, say, BSG territory). The dialogue and the humor seemed like it could have played out exactly like other episodes, but something about the way the material was presented came off much moodier. The colors seemed de-saturated (if that's the right word); the music was less omnipresent; etc.

And that to me is a good thing. There were times last season when things started to feel like the same old shtick in the same old way ("Cold War" was a particular low point), and the show needed a bit of an overhaul. I think this was a step in the right direction. I didn't feel like I automatically knew how the episode was going to proceed.

As is typical of regeneration episodes, the Doctor isn't quite himself; he has amnesia and he says crazy things that he wouldn't ordinarily say. As such, it's kind of hard to get a bead on what to think of the new Doctor just yet. A lot of the scenes were entertaining in and of themselves, though (Best line: "Give me your coat. There's no reason for *both* of us to be cold!"). And I did find myself thoroughly enjoying the gusto with which Capaldi threw himself into the role.

Jenna Coleman was much, much better as Clara than she has been in the past. Clara was very dull in a lot of episodes last year. (Coleman was great as Oswin in "Asylum of the Daleks" and as Governess Clara in "The Snowmen," so I blame the writing for the blandness and inconsistency of modern Clara.) Having Clara be distrustful of the new Doctor gave Coleman a new angle to play, and she played it very well. Plus, I loved it when she stood up to Vastra, and when she beat the cyborg at his own game of threatening. If Clara keeps up like this for the rest of the season, she'll be a favorite Companion in no time.

As for the rest of the supporting cast, I don't really enjoy Vastra and Jenny as much as others seem to (it seems like they would be a better fit on Torchwood), but Strax is always fun. It was odd that he actually threatened the safety of the Doctor several times. Until now, despite his war-mongering tendencies, he's been very loyal to the Doctor.

It seems like the overall season mystery/arc has something to do with religious fanatics, which is getting to be a bit of an old saw for Moffat. I was glad to hear the Doctor bring up "the girl in the shop" who gave Clara the Doctor's phone number, though. I thought that mystery had been forgotten, but it looks like we'll get an answer.

Other thoughts:

I love, love, LOVE the new opening credits. I had actually seen a few fan-made openings on YouTube that looked similar; I couldn't help but wonder if inspiration was drawn from them (to great effect). (Edited to add: Ah, I see someone else mentioned the same thing. Neat to know that it was an intentional nod to that opening!)

I wasn't expecting an acknowledgment of Capaldi's previous role on the show, so it was a nice touch for him to say that he had "seen that face before."

Clara said, "You've redecorated," when she entered the TARDIS control room, but it looks like only slight modifications to me (which is fine, because we just got a new control room less than 2 years ago). The stuff hanging from the ceiling looked the same, and the walls looked similar; only the console itself seemed significantly different.

The surprise return of Matt Smith was terrific. I wonder if he came back just to film that or (more likely, IMO) Matt's lines were filmed during his final episode and kept hush-hush and were later edited into the premiere?

One of my problems with last year's Christmas episode was that Matt Smith's final words were "I will always remember when the Doctor was me," but then he immediately has amnesia, so he did forget. But then by the end of this one, he had remembered the phone call and everything else, so that removed my objection.

Anyway, at last I can breathe a sigh of relief. If not as hit-the-ground-running great as "The Eleventh Hour," it's worlds better than "Time of the Doctor," and I'm really looking forward to next week now.
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
I wanted to also say the new credits are great! Though I think the fan made one is actually BETTER! LOL!

Though that reminds me, the Doctor gave away his WATCH for the coat! I wonder if that will be a later plot point? I mean, its not an ordinary watch, now is it????
 

hebrides

Well-known member
Cover Artist
Messages
3,434
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
46
bionicbob said:
Though that reminds me, the Doctor gave away his WATCH for the coat! I wonder if that will be a later plot point? I mean, its not an ordinary watch, now is it????

Interesting point, particularly since Capaldi has said (and we saw in this episode) that this Doctor
will have a more difficult time remembering his past...

Oh, and re modifications to the control room: they're more apparent than they first appear. If you look closely, there are now
bookshelves on the walls -- a callback to the beautiful control room from the McGann movie? -- and places to write. All that (I think) calculus that The Doctor was writing on the floor of his bedroom may appear again, I suspect...maybe he's working out the math of how to find Gallifrey?
 

TM2YC

Take Me To Your Cinema
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
14,869
Reaction score
2,379
Trophy Points
228
On that note, I liked the new Holmes style armchair on the balcony. I assume Capaldi is going to do much thinking in it.



tumblr_lqf3fm5fmK1qksijlo1_500.jpg
 

MusicEd921

Well-known member
Donor
Messages
1,985
Reaction score
701
Trophy Points
143
Just got back from seeing it for the first time in the local movie theater.

Don't throw rocks at me, but I felt like this was another episode that falls victim to Moffat's constant setup for a lame payoff in his finales. Instead of focusing on a one off story to bring the Doctor in, he (as usual) spends way too much time on building up to nothing all that great in the end. Smith's first episode was excellent because it focused on a one time bad guy, gave Smith a chance to step into the roll, and only slightly hinted at something more to come. Moffat without boundaries is not a fun ride most times (Sherlock is excellent and his writing on Tintin was also awesome so I'm not a Moff hater).

Capaldi was EXCELLENT and his love for the character and role comes through. The next episode is where we will really see him in action. Clara.....still the odd man out in my opinion. Little to no chemistry with Smith, but a little bit more with Capaldi. The fiance and I never understood the Clara appeal.

I'm very excited and relieved now that I have seen Capaldi in the role. Can't wait for the rest of the season, though I just hope we have more stories from others and less Moff ones.
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
Watched DEEP BREATH again last night, and it pretty much reaffirmed my first impression....

The Doctor and Clara were excellent.

Vastra and the gang were good.

The plot/story was mediocre.

But I think I agree with the online theory that

MISSY, the mysterious crazy women dressed all in black at the end of the episode, is....

THE MASTER!
 

steelio2006

Well-known member
Messages
929
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
21
Finally had the chance to watch Deep Breath. While I was left with feeling underwhelmed with Time of the Doctor and the 50th Special, I have to say that Deep Breath left me with a much better feeling. It was a bit of a nice return to feels episode for me.

(Not saying that Time and the 50th were bad, just felt like there was something missing from them. I do wish to see someday an edit that will take the 50th Prequel that set up War Doctor, the 50th Special, and Time of the Doctor and adds them all wonderfully together. Or the very least, would have been nice to have had Night of the Doctor added in to the 50th.)

I was really saddened when Smith's time came to go. And have to say that I have lots of faith in this new Doctor now. Yeah, there were some splashes of Capaldi showing bits of Smith's Doctor shining through. But for the most part, I really enjoyed the way this Doctor's been handled so far. And look forward to seeing him advance and grow as the season goes on.

Also loved the callback to one of favorite episodes of the Tennant era (Girl in the Fireplace). Would definitely be awesome to see more small callbacks such as this again later in the season.

Also enjoyed the tension that was there between Jenny, Vaestra, and Clara. Definitely added some humor to the mix.

And I'd have to agree with Bob bout that fan theory that's been thrown around. It makes an awfully lot of sense. Especially since when first watched the episode it came across that Missy was more
standing in for River. Who knows? There's another theory that it is River just regenerated somehow. But be much cooler to have her be The Master.

I'd rate this episode an 9/10 for me.
 
Top Bottom