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Doctor Who

bionicbob

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I enjoyed the episode.

I thought it worked better as a series of good to great moments, rather than a fully satisfying whole.

I agree, the ending/resolution was far too rushed and pat.

But I loved all the character beats. Brian confronting the Doctor about his past companions. The introduction of a new Stewart-Lethbridge and UNIT, was marvelous and very sweet. The growing up of Rory and Amy and acknowledging the passage of time (10 years!!!!) and accepting responsibilities.

The comedy aspect verged a couple of times to be almost too much, but the producers seemed to realized this time when to rein it in.

Though the teasers were a bit misleading. The year the Doctor stayed. Not really true, was it? He zipped away for a few months and then returned.

Were there any flickering lights in this one? Can't remember. Will have to watch again later.

All in all, I a solid piece of entertainment.

Next week....

 

hebrides

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Re flickering lights: I think I remember a moment with Rory in front of a Christmas tree that might qualify, but I think the more relevant part about flickering may have come in the dialogue between Amy and the Doctor about his "running away," where he reveals that he is actually running to things before they (I may be paraphrasing here) "flicker and fade." And then, of course, he relates that to why he keeps coming back to Amy and Rory, which is very ominous indeed...I suspect Moffat wrote that exchange, or at least had a very large hand in vetting it...

Oh, and agreed about the new (Lethbridge-)Stewart at UNIT, which is doubly cool because it makes canon a character from the previously-unclear-if-canon Reeltime films Downtime and Daemos Rising (both of which I really must get around to watching fully).

And yes, the ending was rushed, in part, I think, because the episode as a whole felt a lot like a Pertwee story told in a Tennant style, but with an Omega-like villain shoehorned into the last ten minutes or so. I hope he or his kind come back; I suspect they will. The episode itself, though, really should have been a two-parter to allow for more threat development as well as character development.

I also have to say, whatever the quality of the stories each week, Matt Smith has been simply extraordinary this season, and this may have been his best work to date. He's always been good at playing a variety of moods, but here he's as funny, erratic, dangerous, brilliant, warm-hearted, and scary as The Doctor has ever been, and he often plays two or more of those things at the same time. He's not just adept at playing The Doctor anymore; he seems to be finding a way to integrate all the previous Doctors into his performance (including the starts-breezy-but-winds-up-terribly-scarred Eighth), and it's remarkable to behold.
 

hebrides

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bionicbob said:
I wonder, with the story supposedly taking place over a year on Earth (at least I think that is what I read???) if the producers will take the moment to have the Doctor acknowledge the passing of Sarah Jane? I think it would be nice touch, and it would add to the drama of Ponds departure.

Also wanted to add: while they didn't directly address this, I think it was a nice touch when the Doctor talked about the companions who had died. He was referring most directly to Adric and the Brig (and sort-of Rose, I guess, though I have to admit my grasp of her story arc is as yet a bit hazy), of course, but I can't help thinking it was also a way of acknowledging Elisabeth Sladen and Mary Tamm.
 

bionicbob

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I also have to say, whatever the quality of the stories each week, Matt Smith has been simply extraordinary this season, and this may have been his best work to date. He's always been good at playing a variety of moods, but here he's as funny, erratic, dangerous, brilliant, warm-hearted, and scary as The Doctor has ever been, and he often plays two or more of those things at the same time. He's not just adept at playing The Doctor anymore; he seems to be finding a way to integrate all the previous Doctors into his performance (including the starts-breezy-but-winds-up-terribly-scarred Eighth), and it's remarkable to behold.

I agree whole heartedly. And he is pretty good at playing football too! LOL!

Also wanted to add: while they didn't directly address this, I think it was a nice touch when the Doctor talked about the companions who had died. He was referring most directly to Adric and the Brig (and sort-of Rose, I guess, though I have to admit my grasp of her story arc is as yet a bit hazy), of course, but I can't help thinking it was also a way of acknowledging Elisabeth Sladen and Mary Tamm.

That was my feeling too while watching the scene.
 

TomH1138

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This was a fantastic episode. It was funny, it was touching, it was exciting.

I loved the stuff with the Doctor trying to adjust to everyday life. Hilarious. In fact, I was a little disappointed that we had to get back to the alien invasion!

I was thrilled with the Doctor having a mystery that he can't crack. If the aliens just outright invaded, he could handle that. But they're just sitting there, doing nothing and not technically being harmful, and the Doctor can't figure out what they're all about.

I loved Rory's dad again, and his obsessive dutifulness over the squares.

Note how, in 50 years, we've never really seen what life was like for a Companion(s) after the Doctor left. Finally, we do. Amy and Rory get to experience normal life for a while, and find that they actually like it!

So many powerfully, emotionally resonant conversations in this one. Rory's dad asking the Doctor what's happened to all the other Companions he's traveled with. The Doctor telling Amy that he's running to the various parts of the universe. The Doctor further saying that he wants to see Amy and Rory before they "fade from him."

This episode was, at its heart, everything that the series as a whole is about.

And what wonderful callbacks to the classic series! UNIT is finally back, and the Brigadier's daughter is in charge! References to K9 and to the Zygons!

And then that wonderful, heartwarming scene at the end, where Rory's dad points out to the Doctor, "It's you they can't leave behind," and the group goes off for more adventures.

I've read a lot of people on the Internet calling this episode "boring" or "underwhelming" (not just in this forum; I'm speaking in general terms). Honestly, if you don't like this episode, then I have to think you just don't like Doctor Who, period. It's like someone claiming they like Star Wars but then saying that they hated The Empire Strikes Back.

You're more than entitled not to like it, of course. But then why keep watching? There was something for everyone in this episode, and if you weren't satisfied now, I can't imagine you ever will be. It doesn't affect me, but I think you'll be much happier without it.

Anyway. Moffat has his work cut out to top this episode next week!
 

addiesin

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I've been a huge fan Nu Who for a few years, embracing McGann, Eccleston, Tennant, and Smith, but I think the episodes thus far this season have all felt like they were missing something for time. They're trying to show so much that it's leaving out important things that would be really fun for the audience to see. I know it could be seen as a stylistic choice, and a few of my favorite episodes suffer from this, but I keep having the feeling that they're really rushing it with the season arc for the sake of the episode's plot at hand, because every one of them could have been another ten to twenty minutes long, easily, without missing a beat.
 

Zarius

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I enjoyed this week's episode, though I have to say, it's like the script-editor took a big hassan chop to the story, as many things went unexplained and potentially strong ideas werent touched upon
 

bionicbob

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Zarius said:
I enjoyed this week's episode, though I have to say, it's like the script-editor took a big hassan chop to the story, as many things went unexplained and potentially strong ideas werent touched upon


Makes me wonder if the dvd release will have any deleted scenes????
 

lpd

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TomH1138 said:
I've read a lot of people on the Internet calling this episode "boring" or "underwhelming" (not just in this forum; I'm speaking in general terms). Honestly, if you don't like this episode, then I have to think you just don't like Doctor Who, period. It's like someone claiming they like Star Wars but then saying that they hated The Empire Strikes Back.
I love Empire Strikes Back!:-( , I wouldnt call this episode the Empire Strikes Back of Doctor Who episodes not by a long shot.
Sorry double post with extras. Somehow.
 

Uncanny Antman

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hebrides said:
He was referring most directly to Adric and the Brig
The Brigadier? I dunno...I don't think dying peacefully many years later doesn't really count. :)
 

hebrides

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Uncanny Antman said:
The Brigadier? I dunno...I don't think dying peacefully many years later doesn't really count. :)

Fair point, but I don't think it's a stretch at all to think the Brig was on his mind...first time we've seen UNIT since last season's scene where he learns of the Brig's death, which clearly affected him deeply when he was preparing for his own apparently imminent demise. He wanted to have the Brig by his side when he met his end, only to find that he'd missed his chance. That would have to have been one of the Doctor's biggest regrets, especially this Doctor, who has so many of them and who seems to feel worst about how he has treated individual people he's close to.
 

Uncanny Antman

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Very true. Even if not strictly a "lost companion", I agree that The Doctor would have him in mind.

...Certainly more than some of those 'one-trip wonders' that died. ;)
 

bionicbob

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Farewell Ponds.

Mixed reactions over this one. The love story between Rory and Amy was brilliant, wonderful and tear jerking. The Doctor's romance with River never felt more genuine. My heart ached for the Doctor as he pleaded with Amy to come back to the Tardis. So one the emotional side, this episode was a home run for me!

But on the logical side, I am scratching my wibbly-wobbly brain. No one notices the Statue of Liberty stomping through Manhattan? The whole question of what is Fixed Point in Time has me perplexed. Once you know your future you can not stop it??? But the Doctor alters Time on a regular basis does he not? And he knows most of the events he is intervening in? And was not the entire last season about the Doctor altering a Fixed Point in Time -- his own death?

I hope this is the last we see of the Angels for a while, as I feel they are beginning to get over exposed as Who Monsters and losing a wee bit of their scare factor.

But again, a very emotionally satisfying episode. The last scene of little Amy waiting for the Doctor caused me to choke up. I am so going to miss her.

Now we wait til Christmas....
 

white43

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Mixed bag for me as well. I didn't feel any tear-jerking as we watched them exit the show.

There were all kinds of paradoxical problems and I know that was kinda the point at the end, but
Really? One 'survives' to send Rory back? That felt shit. Rory just happened to notice his own grave? Once you know about things you can't change them? Hang on, Amy and Rory did, but then didn't? Amy publishes River's book to leave the afterward? That meant she was always in the past and should have been on the headstone all along. :-o

Another thing that was kinda moot. We all knew they were leaving the show, so tatilising us with, 'they may yet survive' was kinda stupid. This should have been a two-parter. I missed Rose when she went, but here...meh.

I must admit, I'm not as confident with Moffat at the helm as I used to be.
 

Omaru1982

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I don't think the angels have really had a good story since Blink, but they are Moffat's 'baby' so he uses them as he sees fit.This and last season have been a mixed bag for me, though I enjoyed about 80% of the fifth series. Moffat overcomplicates things with oh-so-clever time parallel nonsense that makes little sense to me, back to the future was never this complicated and still had timeto make sense without creating giant wtf moments. Even Futurama has the paradox fixing events that stop thigns from happening. :)

I'll still watch the show but I cringe whenver I see 'written by by Steven Moffat'' his writing is much better suited to Sherlock.
 

TomH1138

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Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree completely again. I loved this episode through and through. Exciting, nail-biting, funny, heartbreaking and heartwarming all at once.

Time travel is inherently contradictory. RTD was just as ready to rewrite the rules as Moffat is. But Moffat always goes for what's best dramatically. And at least in the Moffat era, the Doctor usually has a quick line or two that explains why this time doesn't work according to the same rules as the previous instance. The rules may be stretched, but at least they're acknowledged.

People are seriously losing confidence in Moffat? Need I remind everyone what the RTD era gave us: "Love and Monsters," "Daleks in Manhattan," the ridiculousness of the Master in Season 3 and "The End of Time," etc., etc.?

I also don't think that three appearances ever by the Weeping Angels is somehow too much.

Of course, you're all entitled to think what you want. But sometimes I feel like I'm surrounded by people who hate Christopher Nolan and wish that Joel Schumaker was still making Batman movies. No, sir, I don't get it. :(
 

bionicbob

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TomH1138 said:
Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree completely again. I loved this episode through and through. Exciting, nail-biting, funny, heartbreaking and heartwarming all at once.

Time travel is inherently contradictory. RTD was just as ready to rewrite the rules as Moffat is. But Moffat always goes for what's best dramatically. And at least in the Moffat era, the Doctor usually has a quick line or two that explains why this time doesn't work according to the same rules as the previous instance. The rules may be stretched, but at least they're acknowledged.

People are seriously losing confidence in Moffat? Need I remind everyone what the RTD era gave us: "Love and Monsters," "Daleks in Manhattan," the ridiculousness of the Master in Season 3 and "The End of Time," etc., etc.?

I also don't think that three appearances ever by the Weeping Angels is somehow too much.

Of course, you're all entitled to think what you want. But sometimes I feel like I'm surrounded by people who hate Christopher Nolan and wish that Joel Schumaker was still making Batman movies. No, sir, I don't get it. :(


I enjoy Moffat's work. And I enjoyed RTD's run too. They both made great, good and bad Who episodes.

And even many "bad" Who episodes are better than a lot of the dreck on television.

And as I said, emotionally this final performance of the Ponds really hit me hard. I loved it in that respect.

It is only afterwards when the episode ended, I had some "logical" questions.

For instances, if Amy Pond edited the mystery novel and wrote an afterward for the Doctor, then yes, clearly this whole adventure was a Fixed Point in history, but then shouldn't Amy's name have been on the Tombstone along with Rory's from the beginning?

And while it is was TOTALLY COOL having the Statue of Liberty as a Weeping Angel, it doesn't make any sense.
In a city that never sleeps, there is no way the Statue could have travelled around New York without being seen.
So yes, a very exciting and cool visual, but even by Doctor Who standards and rules, very unbelievable.

I love Doctor Who. Really I do.
In fact, I think most people who post in this thread still love the show on some level or they would not continue to tune in to watch.
But just because we love it, doesn't mean we can't question it or be disappointed or hoped for some other outcome.

But despite my few and occasional nit picks,
the show is immensely entertaining and I always look forward to the next adventure. :)
 

Zarius

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Doctor Who has never made any sense. The fact some people are only now starting to question it's logistics makes me seriously think there just getting too old for the programme.
 

lpd

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It was ok. But yes I didnt feel that the loss of Amy and Rory had the crescendo that it deserved. Yeah maybe a two parter was called for as the Doctor brakes the Time rules again and tries to get them back maybe? But hey ho. I know this will probably sound controversial within Doctor Who fandom but I'm wondering if it may be time for a completely fresh start, another reboot type thing as I'm starting to feel maybe, I said maybe, things are staring to feel a little stale but Who knows, (did you see what I did then?) with the new assistant coming in things may feel fresher.
 
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