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The Master

Gatos

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This is Oscar bait right here. Looks interesting. Can't go wrong with Phillip Seymour Hoffman IMO.
 

Q2

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I've never been disappointed with a PT Anderson film. I have high expectations for this one.
 

Gaith

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Here's hoping it really gives Scientology a little what-for.
 

DominicCobb

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PTA never disappoints. Been looking forward to this one for awhile, and I'm really happy they bumped it up a month.

As a side note, since its release is so close, I'm going to refrain from watching any trailers/commercials. Though I'm sure they are excellent.
 

Neglify

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It's already my favorite movie of the year.
 

reave

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Concur.

Wouldn't it be funny if it sucked?
 

njvc

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The trailers are some of the most captivating I have seen. The actors look at the top of their game, the score is again by Jonny Greenwood (There will be blood's score was unbelievable), and Paul Thomas Anderson is driving. What's not to like?
 

Gatos

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njvc said:
The trailers are some of the most captivating I have seen. The actors look at the top of their game, the score is again by Jonny Greenwood (There will be blood's score was unbelievable), and Paul Thomas Anderson is driving. What's not to like?

Agreed:


 

Neglify

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I'm pretty mad at myself for missing the SF advanced screening of this a couple days ago. The moment I learned about it (approx 8 hours after tickets went on sale) it was sold out. And it was a 70mm showing.

And when it gets released proper in SF it won't be 70mm.

:cry:

Guardian Angel said:
guardian-angel.jpg


Have no fear Neg. When it's released in Oakland it'll be 70mm

:madgrin:
 

Neglify

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Sitting in the theater, listening to the organ music, waiting for it to start. This is one of those classic theaters with a big auditorium, balcony seating, grand arch designs all over the place. Once the cell phones are off we'll all be transported back in time.
 

DominicCobb

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Way too lucky. I have no idea when I'll be able to see this.
 

TV's Frink

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When I saw this thread I momentarily confused it with Master Ninja.
 

Neglify

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Wow. I was enthralled walking out of the theater. When my buddy and I discussed it outside I was yelling and screaming and jumping up and down.

A+. 10/10. 100%. Two thumbs up. 5 stars. Atomic Wedgie.

Whatever rating method you prefer, this gets the highest marks.
 

ssj

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so you thought it was ok?

:p
 

Dwight Fry

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TV's Frink said:
When I saw this thread I momentarily confused it with Master Ninja.

I thought it was about this guy:

manos-the-hands-of-fate.jpg
 

DominicCobb

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Just saw it. LOVED it. 10/10.

Got the feeling though that many people who went did not enjoy it. Their loss. I guess they didn't know what they were getting into.
But seriously, though, fuck those people. This movie was exceptional.
 

TMBTM

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Just got back from the movie.

So........

The Master belongs to those kind of movies that my brain says "it's great" and my guts tells me "don't fool yourself, you did not really like it".
I'm not a real connaisseur of PTA's movies. I only watched There Will Be Blood earlier this year. When it was out in theater I just thought "well, there is DD-Lewis in it but it looks boring". How wrong I was. To me TWBB is close to a masterpeace and have the feel of a "Sergio leone meet scorsese" movie. So I was pretty excited to see The Master.

(What will follow is my own interpretation of the movie. I did not read any review yet. So I can be completely wrong about the intention of PTA. It's just the way I saw this movie without any time to think and rethink about it.)

SPOILERS AHEAD:

Now, The Master have all what a movie can ask: great actors at the top of their games, great direction, an interesting subject about... well... about many things in fact. Maybe that's why I simply witnessed this movie without rooting for anybody. The characters are so well pictured that I did like AND hated them all at once. I think that what is great AND why I did not enjoyed the movie as much as I wanted.

So we have the two main characters: one is is broken by his life and is left drunk and brutaly crazy. The other, the Master, have an other kind of crazyness. What I would call a "wealthy" crazyness that leads him to control other people with his charisma and his imagination. There is in fact one scene where it is implied that he just really "imagine" things as he goes. When Laura Dern comes to him and asks him why in his second book he changed a word of a formula from his first book by the word "imagine" and there the master got mad at her. One of the only time of the whole movie where he looses control. Showing that he does not really believe in his writtings and get mad because he got caught on a contradiction.

I saw it as a movie about the "animal" in us versus the "intellectual" in us. And you don't know which one you like or hate the most. The Master is controling other people via a movement that is, without naming it, the Scientology movement. It's hard for the audience to hate the master, and it's hard for the audience to really like Phoenix's character. That's why it's hard for me to really enjoy the movie. My "brain" tells me that it's an interesting watch. But the "animal" audience in me is telling me that the movie is long and that I don't care a lot about what will happen next.
In There Will Be Blood, you start by liking DD Lewis character, then you progressively hate him. It's another and more interesting process to me (and there are other characters to like.)

What is interesting is the ending.
At the end of the day, Phoenix's character IS a "better" man than at the begining. Well, "better man" is maybe not the right word since it implies that there are "lesser men" and that's precisely what this movie is also about: people telling other people that they are weak and lost but better inside and that only THEY could help them. But you got the point. Phoenix is more quiet and more thoughtful in the end. He do what he always wanted to do for years.
So... did the master help him? Did the "scientology" (or in this movie "the Cause") help him? You see... the movie looks like about someone who can enter and leave the movement but it can be also seen as the story of someone saved by the Cause. What do you think? Not sure about that I must say. Or maybe there is something I completely missed in this movie.
 

Neglify

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When I saw this movie the second time (back in October with Mr. and Mrs. njvc) I almost broke down crying multiple times. It spoke to me on many personal levels and it was so well made I felt a strong connection with the story and characters.

TMBTM, I agree about There Will Be Blood. The Master was perfect in my eyes but nowhere near TWBB level of masterpiece.

And you're totally spot on in your interpretation of the movie. Both Freddie and Dodd have their own insanities. Yes, The Cause did help Freddie become a better person.

In terms of the characters, what impressed me the most is how PTA made his anti-hero such an anti. Normally you see "bad" protagonists that have redeeming qualities so the audience can find a reason to like him. There's really nothing about Freddie that's likeable. He's a crazy fucked up alcoholic weirdo who doesn't fit in with the world. It takes balls to make a movie about this guy.

TMBTM said:
What is interesting is the ending.
At the end of the day, Phoenix's character IS a "better" man than at the begining. Well, "better man" is maybe not the right word since it implies that there are "lesser men" and that's precisely what this movie is also about: people telling other people that they are weak and lost but better inside and that only THEY could help them. But you got the point. Phoenix is more quiet and more thoughtful in the end. He do what he always wanted to do for years.

So... did the master help him? Did the "scientology" (or in this movie "the Cause") help him? You see... the movie looks like about someone who can enter and leave the movement but it can be also seen as the story of someone saved by the Cause. What do you think? Not sure about that I must say. Or maybe there is something I completely missed in this movie.

Here's how I see it.

Freddie's reasons for doing The Cause are never explained. You could argue that he was brainwashed by Dodd's charisma or that he found something that he thinks can really help him. I like to take the latter interpretation. Freddie did The Cause because Dodd told him exactly who he is without bullshit. A scoundrel, an animal. Freddie has his demons from his past, whatever they are, and he can't stand who he is so he poisons himself constantly so he doesn't have to remember who he is and the things that he's done or has had happened to him. Freddie sees how well off Dodd is and his charisma and above all else (to me) he's loved by others.

So why did Freddie leave? It's pretty unclear and PTA lets you make your own decisions about it.

In the original script...

after Dodd and Freddie get out of jail Dodd kicks his son Val out of the group, disowning him. Dodd and his wife are stricter on Freddie's drinking and he starts to detox and goes through withdrawals. Later someone breaks into the Phoenix house and it's assumed it was someone (possibly Val) trying to steal Dodd's secret book, locked up in that box they dug up. Freddie was able to get the box and Dodd has Freddie hold onto it for the night. Freddie nearly goes insane with the task he's given. He so badly wants to look in the box but knows he's not supposed to. He hallucinates that he opens it and it explodes, killing him. He becomes paranoid that a government agent is following him because he has the box and is relieved to be rid of it.

So, in the movie...

In Phoenix he's doing a process (Application something-or-other) of walking from wall to wall, touching the wall and describing what he's touching. At the end of the process Freddie says something along the lines of "I'm touching the grass, I'm touching the sky, I'm touching the moon, I can touch anything I want." Dodd recognizes this as the "end phenomena" of that application. Dodd tells him "End of process" and Freddie replies "Nah you're fucking with me" and continues. Freddie doesn't see the change or betterment that Dodd sees.

Then they're at the Phoenix Lecture and Dodd gives a lecture, he talks about having found the source of good and evil, a secret to unlocking one's self. "The secret... is laughter."

At this point in the script Freddie halicunates walking up to Dodd during the lecture and cutting off his head.

The look on Freddie's face after that line says it all though.

"THAT'S IT!? THAT'S THE FUCKING SECRET?" Shortly after he leaves.

I see Freddie leaving because despite the good things about The Cause, he can't put up with the bullshit.

When I saw it the first time I thought Freddie leaving on the motorcycle would be the end. The finale caught me by suprise and after the second time (and reading the script) I got some thoughts about it.

So in the script right after leaving The Cause Freddie picks up drinking again. He finds out Doris got married (just like in the final movie) and is happy for her. He's able to let her go.

In the script, when Dodd calls him in the theater Freddie's drunk off his ass. In the final movie I can't remember if we see his flask, but he looks like shit. After hanging up he falls over the balcony and almost dies. A woman in the theater, named Ellen, helps him to the hospital. Ellen was in an earlier deleted scene as a burlesque stripper that Freddie tried to fuck. Freddie had told her about The Cause and she has since stopped stripping and joined The Cause herself. She talks about how her life has changed and ever since she's been trying to find Freddie because he was her Savior for introducing her to The Cause.

I'm pretty glad PTA cut that out. Too much of a Magnolia type of plot device to fit with this movie.

And what does Freddie see when he goes to England? The Cause has become even stronger than before. The number of Cause members is amazing. And they're all dressed in uniforms, implying that they're all Cause Staff Members.

And he sees Val, in a uniform. Val has been accepted back to the group and he's on board. With the deleted scene of Val getting kicked out, this resonates much stronger. But even without that scene, Val being there was still important.

Dodd sees Freddie and he (along with Peggy) tell Freddie that if he wants to come back to The Cause he needs to devote his entire life to it, everything. It's clear that Freddie decides to not rejoin them.

The deleted scenes with Ellen make it clear that he went back to Dodd because deep down he wants to be a better person. He tells them that he didn't want to rejoin The Cause and he came because maybe he could get some work as a photographer, but that's bullshit.

He leaves Dodd (and it's implied that he's not going to have a relationship with Ellen, since she's devoted to The Cause) and hooks up with this random British woman from the pub. During sex he mixes in some Cause processing and talks about having lived before. He still finds truth in what The Cause has to say but doesn't need to devote himself to it.

He knows The Cause helped him before, but doesn't want to devote his life to it because he doesn't agree with everything they teach and practice.

The most important part of this final scene is how at peace Freddie is. Juxtaposing it with the scene of Freddie and the woman from the mall in the beginning, he is able to be at peace with a woman. He acted like a 13 year old touching a breast for the first time at the beginning of the movie. Now he can just be there with a woman. In the first scene, he was drunk off his potion and was trying to get her drunk. At the end, yeah he was still drunk and she was probably a bit drunk, but they weren't drinking the "potion". They just had some beer at the pub. He didn't "cure" his alcoholism but it's nowhere near how bad it was before. He can have a few beers and not turn into a lunatic.

After that long ramble, here's my final thought.

The Cause helped Freddie let go of his demons. And leaving The Cause helped Freddy rid himself of his "Master" and live his own life and think for himself.

That's how I see it at least.
 
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