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H264 Bluray encode has bad video quality

emanswfan

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So i just exported the video (.m4v) (with audio being separately exported), and I watched the video to check the quality and looks significantly worse than the original bluray. I know that I am compressing it more than the original, as the movie was from a BD-50 and I'm going to a BD-25, but I don't see any artifacting. I have heard about this problem before, but I have absolutely no idea how to fix it (unless it's something I can't ignore due to the re-encoding of the video). The video in general seems to have almost no contrast.
 

booshman

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You could export to lagarith avi, then use another encoder to create your m4v file.
 

geminigod

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emanswfan said:
So i just exported the video (.m4v) (with audio being separately exported), and I watched the video to check the quality and looks significantly worse than the original bluray. I know that I am compressing it more than the original, as the movie was from a BD-50 and I'm going to a BD-25, but I don't see any artifacting. I have heard about this problem before, but I have absolutely no idea how to fix it (unless it's something I can't ignore due to the re-encoding of the video). The video in general seems to have almost no contrast.

It is impossible to comment based on what you have shared. M4v is just a container format, and not a very good one at that. It is apple proprietary bullshit. We know nothing of what your video format inside the container is or the method of how you ripped and presumably re-rendered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4v

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_14
 

Q2

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I assume you're using Adobe Encoder. Are you encoding Bluray H.264 or Blu-Ray MPEG2? I do the first.

A couple things to try: set the frame rate and field order instead of auto. Use Maximum Render. And depending on how long the edit is and what extras you're adding to the disc manually set the bitrate. For my Fall of the Jedi edits I managed to do a CBR at 27-30 Mbps since each film was between 90 and 100 min. For ROTJ I went with 19 Mbps since that film was 135 min.
 

emanswfan

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Here are my settings:
2m6q41u.jpg

EDIT: I started my project directly from the .m2ts files (copied by ANYDVD HD).
 

Q2

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I'll compare with my settings this afternoon and get back to you.
 

Q2

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The only differences I see between yours and mine is that your Profile is set to High whereas mine is set to Main, and that you're using VBR 2-pass w/ Bitrate Level Low. You could try changing it to CBR with a Target Bitrate of 20.5 and a Max of 24 and see what happens.

But hearing your editing the M2TS file I suspect that's the problem. M2TS is a delivery codec, not an editing one, and even though Adobe claims it can edit M2TS files they also say you can edit MP4 files. I tried that and it looked terrible. You might want to do a test and convert that M2TS file to an editing codec like Lagarith and see what happens. Just do a 5 min clip or something and see what happens.
 

geminigod

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^

The VBR low pass and editing off a H.264 file are your problems. Depending on the deal, main vs. high profile may not make a difference, but with HD video high 4.1 profile is what you should use.
 

Q2

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geminigod said:
Depending on the deal, main vs. high profile may not make a difference, but with HD video high 4.1 profile is what you should use.

Dammit! Does this mean I have to re-release my HD edits again?! ;)
 

emanswfan

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Okay, so i tried adjusting the h264 settings several times (CBR, main profile, not maximum bit depth, etc.), according to the advice above, but nothing seemed to work. I used the lagarith codec and it looks perfect, except of course the file is huge and I doubt I have the space to export that and convert it afterwards.
 

geminigod

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Q2 said:
Dammit! Does this mean I have to re-release my HD edits again?! ;)

Lol, yes. And can you totally remove Hayden Christiansen this time please? But put a little more Jar Jar back in. Love that guy.

emanswfan said:
Okay, so i tried adjusting the h264 settings several times (CBR, main profile, not maximum bit depth, etc.), according to the advice above, but nothing seemed to work. I used the lagarith codec and it looks perfect, except of course the file is huge and I doubt I have the space to export that and convert it afterwards.

Welcome to the world of high definition editing. Solution: Work in SD or buy a bigger hard drive.
 

emanswfan

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so apparently, CS6 has a different h264 codec than previous versions...I'm going to export from media encoder instead, and compare the old and new codecs and see what happens.
EDIT: Ok, so I discovered Premiere Pro CS6 still uses the old codec, and when I rendered from Media Encoder CS6 (with the new codec), the video quality was identical to the original bluray! It was a great thing I stumbled across this!
 

Q2

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emanswfan said:
so apparently, CS6 has a different h264 codec than previous versions...I'm going to export from media encoder instead, and compare the old and new codecs and see what happens.

EDIT: Ok, so I discovered Premiere Pro CS6 still uses the old codec, and when I rendered from Media Encoder CS6 (with the new codec), the video quality was identical to the original bluray! It was a great thing I stumbled across this!

:? Yeah... you lost me. LOL But I'm happy you got it figured out! :thumb:
 

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The adobe/mainconcepts encoders are second rate compared to x264. You can use x264 with adobe software but it takes some manual work.

First install x264vfw - http://sourceforge.net/projects/x264vfw/
Output your video as avi, and set the codec to x264. Open the Config and get all your settings right so it is bluray/avchd compatible. If you set it to 2 pass, you have to run the encoding twice. Save the second file over the first, and make sure to change your pass settings in the x264 config. This part is a little complicated and takes trial and error.

Once you have an outputted avi file, it wont play anywhere. Open it in virtualdub and save as an avi file. Now you will be able to use mp4box to extract the streams from the avi file. Use tsmuxer and put them back into a .m2ts file. Now you will have a bluray compliant file using x264 instead of the adobe crap encoders, and there is no need for intermediate uncompressed avis.
 

emanswfan

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wabid said:
The adobe/mainconcepts encoders are second rate compared to x264. You can use x264 with adobe software but it takes some manual work.

First install x264vfw - http://sourceforge.net/projects/x264vfw/
Output your video as avi, and set the codec to x264. Open the Config and get all your settings right so it is bluray/avchd compatible. If you set it to 2 pass, you have to run the encoding twice. Save the second file over the first, and make sure to change your pass settings in the x264 config. This part is a little complicated and takes trial and error.

Once you have an outputted avi file, it wont play anywhere. Open it in virtualdub and save as an avi file. Now you will be able to use mp4box to extract the streams from the avi file. Use tsmuxer and put them back into a .m2ts file. Now you will have a bluray compliant file using x264 instead of the adobe crap encoders, and there is no need for intermediate uncompressed avis.
Well, see I would have done that (I already have x264), except for the fact my har drive at the moment, is filled with hundreds of gig's of pictures. I viewed the finished BD-25 on my plasma, and it looked really good, except two weird rendering errors near the end where two random frames, respectively, from other parts in the movie appear, otherwise no compression artifacts appear. When I get my new 3tb external drive, I'll probably do this if I plan to put the edit up on fanedit.org. Not sure, if there'd be any real interest though.
 

wabid

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emanswfan said:
Well, see I would have done that (I already have x264), except for the fact my har drive at the moment, is filled with hundreds of gig's of pictures. I viewed the finished BD-25 on my plasma, and it looked really good, except two weird rendering errors near the end where two random frames, respectively, from other parts in the movie appear, otherwise no compression artifacts appear. When I get my new 3tb external drive, I'll probably do this if I plan to put the edit up on fanedit.org. Not sure, if there'd be any real interest though.


Yea if your video is 20 gb, you will need 40 free. Make sure you have x264 VFW (Video for Windows) installed. The regular one won't cut it.

These might come in handy.

MP4Box -aviraw video movie.avi

x264 --bitrate XXXXX --preset veryslow --tune film --bluray-compat --vbv-maxrate 40000 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --level 4.1 --keyint 24 --open-gop --slices 4 --colorprim "bt709" --transfer "bt709" --colormatrix "bt709" --sar 1:1 --pass 1 -o out.264 input.file

x264 --bitrate XXXXX --preset veryslow --tune film --bluray-compat --vbv-maxrate 40000 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --level 4.1 --keyint 24 --open-gop --slices 4 --colorprim "bt709" --transfer "bt709" --colormatrix "bt709" --sar 1:1 --pass 2 -o out.264 input.file
 

geminigod

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emanswfan said:
and it looked really good, except two weird rendering errors near the end where two random frames, respectively, from other parts in the movie appear, otherwise no compression artifacts appear.

That is because you are editing off of a compressed H.264 file, which is a big no-no as discussed.
 

emanswfan

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wabid said:
Yea if your video is 20 gb, you will need 40 free. Make sure you have x264 VFW (Video for Windows) installed. The regular one won't cut it.

These might come in handy.

MP4Box -aviraw video movie.avi

x264 --bitrate XXXXX --preset veryslow --tune film --bluray-compat --vbv-maxrate 40000 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --level 4.1 --keyint 24 --open-gop --slices 4 --colorprim "bt709" --transfer "bt709" --colormatrix "bt709" --sar 1:1 --pass 1 -o out.264 input.file

x264 --bitrate XXXXX --preset veryslow --tune film --bluray-compat --vbv-maxrate 40000 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --level 4.1 --keyint 24 --open-gop --slices 4 --colorprim "bt709" --transfer "bt709" --colormatrix "bt709" --sar 1:1 --pass 2 -o out.264 input.file
Ok, I misread what you were saying earlier, I do have like 96 gb free at the moment, everything should be fine. I'll try that.
 
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