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Batman 3 - The Dark Knight Rises

yes to no riddler

would have preferred: THE GODDAMN BATMAN as a title
 
Sunarep said:
would have preferred: THE GODDAMN BATMAN as a title
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Steelio!!! What are you doing using Sunarep's account? :shock:
 
The Dark Knight Rises does seem a bit flushed to me. A little too uninspired.
Good thing not going down the Riddler's path though. That would only remind me of Jim Carrey. I'm hoping Nolan stays true to the gritty, dark and sombre real-life scenario, and doesn't start pulling in people like Killer Croc or other hallucinatory mishaps. Best stick with someone who would be plausible as a real-life criminal. A filthy, more down-to-earth Penguin perhaps? Not a real mutated freak like in Batman Returns, but someone more... yeah well, real. :)
EDIT: Victor Zasz also comes to mind, but he's not a strong enough character to carry a film as the main villain.
And definitely not after Heath Ledger's Joker.
 
The Riddler isn't any more tied to Jim Carrey than The Joker was to Caesar Romero. A good Riddler - I liked the fan suggestion of David Tennant, but you could easily go for a "darker" type as well - can go in all sorts of directions. He doesn't have to be silly. He can just wear a green suit and that's basically it. I liked the suggestion that he could be a detective who finds out that Bruce Wayne is Batman, and maybe fighting a good fight in a completely ruthless way. Or there's the thief angle. It's a good character.

If it's Black Mask I will maim someone. F*ck the "darker, more edgy" school of supervillains and the horse it rode in on. Catwoman isn't a proper villain, and has to be a secondary villain, if at all. Nolan apparently doesn't like The Penguin. The big guns are all used: Scarecrow, Ra's, Falcone/Maroni, The Joker, and Two-Face. I hope it's not Freeze or Ivy.
 
I know it isn't, but I was merely suggesting Jim Carrey left an imprint, and not in a good way. Romero was deliberately funny. Or at least to me he was. I'd rather see the Riddler as an enigmatic thief. That thought already struck me before.
I will maim Nolan himself if he turns to Black Mask. Catwoman is a definite no-go, because there's not enough personality to carry an entire film playing games with Bruce, which pretty much explains why she's always been a second act.
I don't like the Penguin either, but it is starting to look like Nolan's running out of options. Freeze and Ivy aren't plausible in the Batman world Nolan has created. They won't fit in. I just hope that, if any, Scarecrow's screen-time will be severely reduced, because I've just about had it with Cillian Murphy.
 
Actually, I love Murphy's Scarecrow, and I was sad to see so little of him in The Dark Knight. I wanted him to be The Joker's supplier of laughter gas, that would have made perfect sense in the Nolan-verse. (Although I'm also a bit relieved that didn't happen.) I'll bet good money that Scarecrow won't be a major player in the next film, he's a spent force now.

There's really no major villain left. Which is why I was convinced The Riddler would be the next one.
-The league of assassins/shadows are a spent force now that Bruce kicked their collective asses. (And Talia al Ghul will not happen)
-Freeze is too silly
-Catwoman can't work on her own
-Ivy is too silly
-Riddler is out
-Penguin is too silly
-The 80s/90s villains are stupid: Black Mask, Bane, Zsasz, KGBeast, etc all stink to high heaven. They're campy without being fun.
-Killer Croc, Man-Bat and Clayface make no sense in the Nolan-verse
-Harley Quinn is too silly
-Dr. Hugo Strange and Doctor Death are too old-school
-The Mad Hatter is one-note and an uninteresting villain

Can anyone tell me who's left? No really minor villains will fit in such a project. I'd love to see Batman fight The Flamingo and the drug trade, but I doubt that will happen as most people have no idea who that is. And let's face it, 90 percent of Batman villains are cheap gimmicks in search of a character. Although I love The Cavalier of Crime, I wouldn't want to watch a film where he's the villain. Or how about The Monarch of Menace? Or The Snowman (the bastard offspring of a human woman and a male yeti)? Or Zebra Man?

I'm afraid Black Mask is one of the few that would make sense. Ugh.

From the situation Gotham City is in, and the possible non-supernatural villains left, my personal preference would actually be Lex Luthor. But that's not gonna happen since he's too mired in Superman lore.
 
Rupert Thorne? Firefly? I kid, I kid.
Zsaz was already in Batman Begins (bald inmate at Arkham, played by the lead singer of 80's band James)
They could have Maximus Zeus, but instead of a toga wearing joke, he could be a greek-affecionado and strategist.

Croc could actually work, instead of literally being a croc or mutant, he could just be a muscular guy with a skin disorder. But he'd have to be a gun for hire. I haven't read any stories regarding the character so I dunno if he could adapt well to the real world but Hush?
 
Bad idea or not, if anyone could make Black Mask work, it's the Nolan brothers.
 
Croc is pretty much always a supporting character, and for a good reason. Maxie Zeus as a major character in a Batman film would be so beyond laughable I'll see the film at least twice in theatres just to salute the ridiculous.

Hush is a joke. He's a moronic comics fan wet dream come true, the embodiment of darker and edgier "brilliant" supervillain with no spandex and just a bandage on his head to conceal his identity. He's like what Lost would be if Lost sucked. Everything ties into the PAST. Or more to the point, I guess it's closer to reviving the Tim Burton Bats STINK with The Joker killing Bruce's parents. The only reason the character kinda works in Batman: Hush is that the actual suspense lies with the other villains, especially the Riddler. Nolan already wrote Ra's into Bruce's past. We don't need a childhood friend with a badly written grudge.

My problem with Black Mask is that he's so utterly uninteresting that the Nolans could just write a new character from scratch that would be a lot better. Maybe they will. Of course that would be fine. I just wanted to see where they could take the Riddler.

Also, I know a lot of people dislike this idea, but I think Robin would work. Nolan is pretty good at being sentimental and melodramatic. Alfred burning Rachel's letter was actually one of the best scenes of The Dark Knight, imo. When done right, Robin's origin story is a true tearjerker. After Bruce has lost everything, realising he's not alone and finding purpose through being a father figure for an orphaned boy could be nice. But I doubt it would happen.

Stray thought: the title is awful.
 
theslime said:
He's like what Lost would be if Lost sucked.
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Uhh...
theslime said:
Also, I know a lot of people dislike this idea, but I think Robin would work. Nolan is pretty good at being sentimental and melodramatic.
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This only goes to show I'm right about the Nolans. If someone can do it, they can.
 
Yes! People accuse Nolan of being soulless and cold, but both The Dark Knight and Inception are really sentimental stories at heart. (Inception didn't really work all that well for me, though.) That's why I think he's one of the few who could have done Robin justice.

Yeah, sorry for the nonsensical free-associative rant about Hush. I just think he neatly encapsulates everything that's wrong with noughties comics. Everything is DARK. Everything has a PAST. It's emotional torture porn. There's no flair for imagery, there's no vaudeville. I accept that Batman is the gritty, realist superhero, but that's no excuse for making superhero comics BORING. Jeph Loeb (the creator of Hush) isn't the worst at all, it permeates most of the business. (Although I see more interesting and imaginative stories happening now; I think the worst crap is over.) Even the otherwise-trustworthy Grant Morrison went in that direction with Batman: R.I.P - although the sheer imagination overload of that story makes it better than the generic shock value crap.
 
So it's settled then! Someone get Nolan on the phone!
We want a dark, gritty and sombre Dick Grayson!
Although I have to admit, as an alter persona, I like Nightwing more than Robin.
The past remains the same; his parents' death, and all that psycho jiggamacrap, but purely based on the superhero character itself, I prefer Nightwing.
I'm really sorry but Batman Forever and Batman & Robin killed every single ounce of hope I have of Nolan coming up with anything good --if ever--, regarding Robin, Riddler, and/or Freeze. Although, as we agreed on, the latter doesn't fit the Nolan-verse.
I'm not hoping for squat until I'm in the theatre and see the end credits rolling.
 
Nolan has always had an interest in Psychology and how the mind works, I wouldn't be surprised if he covers Scarface & the Ventrilogquist in the next movie, though I can't imagine any scenario where that would be plausible, more like a homage to Psycho.
 
Looking forward to seeing if Scarface and Ventriliquist will be in the next film. I'm hoping that it is. Cause that'd be pretty sweet. Plus Scarface is still a good way of moving things from the mob to the freaks.
 
I still think Nolan was clueless about making that transition from the mob to the freaks. He had the perfect way to do so in Batman Begins, and I actually thought he would use the Scarecrow's gas to justify all those loonies popping up in later films. Clever and plausible solution. But he just did not use it, much to my annoyance.
 
I'm not sure Iike the title, it feels a little lazy.

Nolan has confirmed there will be no Robin whilst he's around. Bale said something similar I believe. I think we may see a completely new villain.
 
Completely new? That would be overkill. At least stick to someone we know.
 
I liked the idea of having the Riddler because that might mean putting the detective angle back into Batman. Let's not forget he first appeared, and still appears, in a magazine called Detective Comics, and he is not only a detective but the world's greatest detective, no less. However, the movies keep ignoring that fact, going instead for the brutal avenger (Burton) or the urban soldier/Ethan Hunt in an armor (Nolan).

I still hope some day, someone will get the character totally right on screen.

Oh, and the title totally sucks. It sounds like a first chapter, not a last one.
 
DwightFry78 said:
he is not only a detective but the world's greatest detective, no less.
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As a Holmes fan, I've always had a slight bitterness about this 'fact' however, Batman has teamed up with Sherlock in an episode of Brave & The Bold. Although it would be nice to see him doing a little more detective work in any medium. Supposedly in Arkham Asylum there were going to be actual clues to analyse, but the programmers felt it was going to slow the pace of the game down, which is why we have the simplified 'follow the trail of DNA' segments instead.
 
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