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All Things Related to Widescreen

I think the anamorphic guide at thedigitalbits.com is extremely useful and easy to understand. It also directly addresses the letterbox vs. anamorphic issue that tranzor and Captain K were discussing in bionicbob's Perdition's Flame's thread.

Unfortunately it looks like thedigitalbits.com has been victimized by some type of cyber attack, so it's not suggested to go there right now. Once things are cleared up, I'll post links here to both the general guide and the specific letterbox vs. anamorphic pages.
 
TV's Frink said:
I think the anamorphic guide at thedigitalbits.com is extremely useful and easy to understand. It also directly addresses the letterbox vs. anamorphic issue that tranzor and Captain K were discussing in bionicbob's Perdition's Flame's thread.

Unfortunately it looks like thedigitalbits.com has been victimized by some type of cyber attack, so it's not suggested to go there right now. Once things are cleared up, I'll post links here to both the general guide and the specific letterbox vs. anamorphic pages.
Click to expand...

it should be fine in a few hours
 
tranzor said:
Rubbish??? Then you have no idea what you are trying to say and not fully reading what I am writing.
Click to expand...

Oh, yes I am. You said the issue between anamorphic and non-anamorphich was the presence of black bars, and it isn't.

I hate to burst your bubble once again but depending on what type of brand of set you own, some have a wonderful zoom feature and can rival the full blown image (though naturally of course you get less pic with zoom), especially with some bluray titles]
Click to expand...

My TV has a wonderful zoom feature. It cannot compete with a true anamorphic image.

when one complains about a disc not begin anamporh they are saying they cannot utilize their 16x9 set to get a full picture like normal and as mentioned have more black bar than usual, which is exactly everything I already previously mentioned. SO if this is not the issue with you then please explain what you are complaining about
Click to expand...

I don't actually recall complaining as such. I was offering Bob help to fix the issue and advising him as to what I thought was the best way to release his edit.

It seemed to me from your statements about black bars that you thought we were having an argument about whether or not the bars on the top and bottom should be present. We certainly weren't!
 
tranzor said:
Therefore when one complains about a disc not begin anamporh they are saying they cannot utilize their 16x9 set to get a full picture like normal and as mentioned have more black bar than usual, which is exactly everything I already previously mentioned. SO if this is not the issue with you then please explain what you are complaining about
Click to expand...
The issue is that a letterboxed image on a 16:9 tv will have bars not only on the top and bottom, but also the left and right, which is completely unnecessary.

tranzor, do you have a 16:9 tv?

Damn I wish the examples I linked to were not being reported as unsafe. It's a simple thing to understand when you just look at the posted example.
 
TV's Frink said:
The issue is that a letterboxed image on a 16:9 tv will have bars on both the top and bottom, which is completely unnecessary.
Click to expand...
Crap, I meant top/bottom and left/right!
 
TV's Frink said:
The issue is that a letterboxed image on a 16:9 tv will have bars on both the top and bottom, which is completely unnecessary.
Click to expand...

but that is exactly what I was saying in my posts so why Capt is arguing with me about it is beyond me. It comes down to seeing the black bars on the 16x9 sets and this is why people do not like non anamorphic
 
I edited - see above.
 
tranzor said:
but that is exactly what I was saying in my posts so why Capt is arguing with me about it is beyond me. It comes down to seeing the black bars on the 16x9 sets and this is why people do not like non anamorphic
Click to expand...

You mean the black bars on the left and right? Pillar box?

In that case, that is the issue. It sounded like you were referring to the bars on the top and bottom to me.
 
TV's Frink said:
I edited - see above.
Click to expand...

exactly as I have been saying. People want to see as little black bars as possible on their 16x9 sets.
 
Captain Khajiit said:
tranzor said:
but that is exactly what I was saying in my posts so why Capt is arguing with me about it is beyond me. It comes down to seeing the black bars on the 16x9 sets and this is why people do not like non anamorphic
Click to expand...

You mean the black bars on the left and right? Pillar box?

In that case, that is the issue. It sounded like you were referring to the bars on the top and bottom to me.
Click to expand...


I am also not sure what sets and brands people are using, but I have seen some that had 4:3 (in a 1:85:1) barely have any black side bars at all, almost like as if you were viewing it again on a regular 4:3 set. Some others I have seen center the 4:3 horribly and give a few inches of a pillar box effect
 
tranzor said:
exactly as I have been saying. People want to see as little black bars as possible on their 16x9 sets.
Click to expand...

You are right, but that it really did not come across to me that you were saying that at all. I am sorry if I misread you, but it was not at all clear to me.

I do stand by saying that an anamorphic image looks better on a 16:9 set. That zoom function looks pretty bad, even if you have a good one, if you see what I mean.

tranzor said:
I am also not sure what sets and brands people are using, but I have seen some that had 4:3 (in a 1:85:1) barely have any black side bars at all, almost like as if you were viewing it again on a regular 4:3 set. Some others I have seen center the 4:3 horribly and give a few inches of a pillar box effect
Click to expand...

It's not just about whether you see pillarboxing on the sides. It's about overall image quality.
 
Captain Khajiit said:
tranzor said:
exactly as I have been saying. People want to see as little black bars as possible on their 16x9 sets.
Click to expand...

You are right, but that it really did not come across to me that you were saying that at all. I am sorry if I misread you, but it was not at all clear to me.

I do stand by saying that an anamorphic image looks better on a 16:9 set. That zoom function looks pretty bad, even if you have a good one, if you see what I mean.

tranzor said:
I am also not sure what sets and brands people are using, but I have seen some that had 4:3 (in a 1:85:1) barely have any black side bars at all, almost like as if you were viewing it again on a regular 4:3 set. Some others I have seen center the 4:3 horribly and give a few inches of a pillar box effect
Click to expand...

It's not just about whether you see pillarboxing on the sides. It's about overall image quality.
Click to expand...

And we get to the common ground finally! Yes that is all I was trying to say, people with 16x9 do not want to see any black bars at all (or as little as possible). This is what I was trying to tell you when people complain at whatever being non anamorhopic,it is for the reason of seeing more border than they otherwise would not see if it had been anamorhpic and because of the 4:3 the picture appears a bit smaller

now we just need a mod to delete all are other posts from Bob's topic which we hijacked.
 
I still think there is some clarification needed on this issue. I found another site that has a very similar discussion to what I was trying to show at thedigitalbits.

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/special ... emptor.htm

The important thing is that letterbox and anamorphic look the same on a 4:3 set. But here's letterbox and anamorphic on a 16:9

letterbox:
spartacus_lbx_wide-r2b.jpg

anamorphic:
spartacus_anamorphic_wide-r2b.jpg


And the following text...
Image size is not the only difference. Clarity and detail are substantially better when DVDs are "enhanced for 16:9".

Remember that I mentioned that 16:9 gear can get rid of the black bars on the sides of 4:3 programs? By using the zoom feature we can make the little Spartacus picture the same size as the 16:9 version. I'd give you an example but I just can't convey what happens when you do that. It's an ugly thing to behold, at least if you have a relatively large screen. We're using a 100" screen and it's unlikely that Universal's DVD will ever be displayed on it. But don't take this as an attack on Universal. There are other bonehead transfers that just break your heart. As an example, Fox used 65mm elements of Oklahoma! and South Pacific as well as the 55.625mm negative of The King and I in order to produce high quality transfers, and then they used the cheesy 4:3 letterbox format to make DVDs. They're bloody awful to look at on a big screen system. Is it too late to ask for a refund?
Click to expand...

So when I complain about letterbox, it's not because I don't want to see black bars. It's because I don't want bars on the side as well as the top/bottom, forcing me to zoom in and lose quality.
 
@Tranzor

Yes; I understand you now. I would emphasise that the problem is not just about seeing black border. It is the fact that video encoded letterboxed and blown up looks bad. It really does not use a 16:9 set the way it is meant to be used.
 
TV's Frink said:
I still think there is some clarification needed on this issue. I found another site that has a very similar discussion to what I was trying to show at thedigitalbits.

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/special ... emptor.htm

The important thing is that letterbox and anamorphic look the same on a 4:3 set. But here's letterbox and anamorphic on a 16:9

letterbox:
spartacus_lbx_wide-r2b.jpg

anamorphic:
spartacus_anamorphic_wide-r2b.jpg


And the following text...
Image size is not the only difference. Clarity and detail are substantially better when DVDs are "enhanced for 16:9".

Remember that I mentioned that 16:9 gear can get rid of the black bars on the sides of 4:3 programs? By using the zoom feature we can make the little Spartacus picture the same size as the 16:9 version. I'd give you an example but I just can't convey what happens when you do that. It's an ugly thing to behold, at least if you have a relatively large screen. We're using a 100" screen and it's unlikely that Universal's DVD will ever be displayed on it. But don't take this as an attack on Universal. There are other bonehead transfers that just break your heart. As an example, Fox used 65mm elements of Oklahoma! and South Pacific as well as the 55.625mm negative of The King and I in order to produce high quality transfers, and then they used the cheesy 4:3 letterbox format to make DVDs. They're bloody awful to look at on a big screen system. Is it too late to ask for a refund?
Click to expand...

So when I complain about letterbox, it's not because I don't want to see black bars. It's because I don't want bars on the side as well as the top/bottom, forcing me to zoom in and lose quality.
Click to expand...

Correct.

For my own view it is not so much of an issue (I wouldn't zoom, rather just watch a smaller pic) and why (if it is a step out of the way from whatever edit I am doing) if my sources are non anamorphic, keep it that way. Seeing a smaller pic and bars does not bother me that much at all
 
Ok, I think we're all on the same page now. :)
 
Yes; we'll have to agree to differ here then, guys. :)

I'm glad we have resolved this. I apologize, Tranzor, if that became a little heated for a while!
 
Captain Khajiit said:
@Tranzor

Yes; I understand you now. I would emphasise that the problem is not just about seeing black border. It is the fact that video encoded letterboxed and blown up looks bad. It really does not use a 16:9 set the way it is meant to be used.
Click to expand...



I think some of it might also depend on ratio. If you had a 1:66 or 1:75:1 4:3 dvd and had to zoom, very little would be lost because it is close enough to full screen anyway. I mean zooming in you will loose and then that defeats the purpose as well, but you would prob get a better pic in that situation with a smaller letterboxed ratio
 
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