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Avengers: Endgame

Hymie

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musiced921 said:
I can't for the life of me understand the problem people have with the girl power scene.  It seems to be men who feel this way, but women, even superheroes over the years, are always out there with their boobs hanging out and short skirts fighting the bad guys until a man of some sort helps.  We're FINALLY in an age where female superheroes are not just eye candy, but can stand on their own without men always helping them.  To be honest, the Marvel franchise has ignored all of the women superheroes until now (and Black Widow is getting a movie NOW after so many years?!?!?!).

Little boys and girls need to see that men and women are equal and that goes with there being super-powered beings.  No one complains of the closeups of the Avengers Assemble charge with it being led by ALL men, so why complain about giving a shout out to all of the super-powered women without calling it a social justice pander or to appease snowflakes?  It's time we had more female representation in the superhero world without it always being damsels in distress.  

Sorry if this is too much of a rant, but I'm just not understanding the hate this short 10-20 second scene gets from men.

I understand complaints saying it felt forced as the way it was staged just felt too in your face and obvious what they were doing.  If they simply had the women assisting without all stopping during the middle of the battle to gather themselves and say what they were doing I don't think you'd get much complaints.  

Watching the deleted scenes on Disney+, there was another scene where everyone kind of stopped and gathered during the battle to collect themselves, so it seems to be something that they realized was an issue but probably couldn't come up with a satisfactory solution.  I think the same version of the scene in Infinity War where Black Widow comes to the rescue was executed much better and its clearly what they were going for and just couldn't find the right way to portray it on screen.
 

macmilln

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Hymie said:
musiced921 said:
I can't for the life of me understand the problem people have with the girl power scene.  It seems to be men who feel this way, but women, even superheroes over the years, are always out there with their boobs hanging out and short skirts fighting the bad guys until a man of some sort helps.  We're FINALLY in an age where female superheroes are not just eye candy, but can stand on their own without men always helping them.  To be honest, the Marvel franchise has ignored all of the women superheroes until now (and Black Widow is getting a movie NOW after so many years?!?!?!).

Little boys and girls need to see that men and women are equal and that goes with there being super-powered beings.  No one complains of the closeups of the Avengers Assemble charge with it being led by ALL men, so why complain about giving a shout out to all of the super-powered women without calling it a social justice pander or to appease snowflakes?  It's time we had more female representation in the superhero world without it always being damsels in distress.  

Sorry if this is too much of a rant, but I'm just not understanding the hate this short 10-20 second scene gets from men.

I understand complaints saying it felt forced as the way it was staged just felt too in your face and obvious what they were doing.  If they simply had the women assisting without all stopping during the middle of the battle to gather themselves and say what they were doing I don't think you'd get much complaints.  

Watching the deleted scenes on Disney+, there was another scene where everyone kind of stopped and gathered during the battle to collect themselves, so it seems to be something that they realized was an issue but probably couldn't come up with a satisfactory solution.  I think the same version of the scene in Infinity War where Black Widow comes to the rescue was executed much better and its clearly what they were going for and just couldn't find the right way to portray it on screen.

That's how I feel about it. I have no problems with the 'girl power' idea/concept or whatever, and I enjoyed the one in Infinity War, because it actually served a purpose, but this one literally made zero sense. Captain Marvel just obliterated Thanos' ship, she is supposedly the most powerful Avenger, and can fly over all the 'traffic' on the battlefield. But all these other, lots objectively weaker, female heroes thinks that she need their help. She doesn't. And if she did in the movie, she shouldn't. Sure, Okoye and Shuri may have a small impact on the overall battle (still not gonna matter to Captain Marvel), but even fucking Mantis is there to "help". It makes zero sense. Same would apply if it was all male characters, or just an ensemble shot in general. I wouldn't expect to see Fury helping out Thor on the battlefield (although he could probably fight better than Mantis), and that is where my problem with that scene lies.
 

kkimble

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musiced921 said:
I can't for the life of me understand the problem people have with the girl power scene.  It seems to be men who feel this way, but women, even superheroes over the years, are always out there with their boobs hanging out and short skirts fighting the bad guys until a man of some sort helps.  We're FINALLY in an age where female superheroes are not just eye candy, but can stand on their own without men always helping them.  To be honest, the Marvel franchise has ignored all of the women superheroes until now (and Black Widow is getting a movie NOW after so many years?!?!?!).

Little boys and girls need to see that men and women are equal and that goes with there being super-powered beings.  No one complains of the closeups of the Avengers Assemble charge with it being led by ALL men, so why complain about giving a shout out to all of the super-powered women without calling it a social justice pander or to appease snowflakes?  It's time we had more female representation in the superhero world without it always being damsels in distress.  

Sorry if this is too much of a rant, but I'm just not understanding the hate this short 10-20 second scene gets from men.

Any scene that explicitly favors one group over another isn’t right. If all the men of marvel did the same thing you can bet there would be a lot of flak. Either we live in a world without sexism or favoritism or we don’t. This was the 10 year climax of super hero movies where the heroes fight the overwhelming odds to save their universe. Taking the time to make this social statement was completely uncalled for and really stealing from the audiences investment in their movies. No one has an issue with women superheroes, this isn’t an anti feminist thing. It isn’t personal if a comic book hero was made as a male.
 

MusicEd921

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@"kkimble" I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

That being said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate or start to get heated. I think we can all agree that no matter what individual scenes we may have had some concerns with, this movie did nothing less than provide a wonderful 10 year payoff that we haven’t seen in a franchise before and probably won’t for a while.
 

macmilln

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musiced921 said:
@"kkimble" I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

That being said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate or start to get heated. I think we can all agree that no matter what individual scenes we may have had some concerns with, this movie did nothing less than provide a wonderful 10 year payoff that we haven’t seen in a franchise before and probably won’t for a while.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using a thread about a movie to respectfully debate about the same movie.

I agree with @"kkimble", for one pretty much undeniable reason: they cut a scene just like that for that very reason.

If you have Disney+, you can view deleted scenes, not just the ones that are available with the home release, but scenes that were deleted from the deleted scenes. Deleted-deleted scenes, with directors commentary as well!

There is one titled “In the Trenches” which has the battle pause for a few minutes where all the characters gather together to regroup/plan their attack. It’s cool seeing this kind of thing in a battle this huge, with all the characters we get to see interacting, but as the Russos themselves point out on the commentary, it makes no sense. There is no reason for it to exist in the narrative, and it seems very contrived.

This is exactly how I feel about the “She’s Got Help” scene (along with the realism element I mentioned previously), and this is how I believe every other rational human who doesn’t like it feels as well.
 

kkimble

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musiced921 said:
@"kkimble" I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

That being said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate or start to get heated. I think we can all agree that no matter what individual scenes we may have had some concerns with, this movie did nothing less than provide a wonderful 10 year payoff that we haven’t seen in a franchise before and probably won’t for a while.

You are right, I never intended to start a debate. We should make a new forum if we want to discuss that. Everyone is entitled to Their feelings about the movie (I simply mentioned mine) but few can deny how epic it was and how great it was to see the 10 year finish done so well.
 

kkimble

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macmilln said:
musiced921 said:
@"kkimble" I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

That being said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate or start to get heated. I think we can all agree that no matter what individual scenes we may have had some concerns with, this movie did nothing less than provide a wonderful 10 year payoff that we haven’t seen in a franchise before and probably won’t for a while.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using a thread about a movie to respectfully debate about the same movie.

I agree with @"kkimble", for one pretty much undeniable reason: they cut a scene just like that for that very reason.

If you have Disney+, you can view deleted scenes, not just the ones that are available with the home release, but scenes that were deleted from the deleted scenes. Deleted-deleted scenes, with directors commentary as well!

There is one titled “In the Trenches” which has the battle pause for a few minutes where all the characters gather together to regroup/plan their attack. It’s cool seeing this kind of thing in a battle this huge, with all the characters we get to see interacting, but as the Russos themselves point out on the commentary, it makes no sense. There is no reason for it to exist in the narrative, and it seems very contrived.

This is exactly how I feel about the “She’s Got Help” scene (along with the realism element I mentioned previously), and this is how I believe every other rational human who doesn’t like it feels as well.

I forgot to mention how it was in this scene that they show captain marvel holding the gauntlet and it really begs the question, "why didnt she just put it on?" seems like tony didn't have to die.
 

Masirimso17

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kkimble said:
macmilln said:
musiced921 said:
@"kkimble" I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

That being said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate or start to get heated. I think we can all agree that no matter what individual scenes we may have had some concerns with, this movie did nothing less than provide a wonderful 10 year payoff that we haven’t seen in a franchise before and probably won’t for a while.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using a thread about a movie to respectfully debate about the same movie.

I agree with @"kkimble", for one pretty much undeniable reason: they cut a scene just like that for that very reason.

If you have Disney+, you can view deleted scenes, not just the ones that are available with the home release, but scenes that were deleted from the deleted scenes. Deleted-deleted scenes, with directors commentary as well!

There is one titled “In the Trenches” which has the battle pause for a few minutes where all the characters gather together to regroup/plan their attack. It’s cool seeing this kind of thing in a battle this huge, with all the characters we get to see interacting, but as the Russos themselves point out on the commentary, it makes no sense. There is no reason for it to exist in the narrative, and it seems very contrived.

This is exactly how I feel about the “She’s Got Help” scene (along with the realism element I mentioned previously), and this is how I believe every other rational human who doesn’t like it feels as well.

I forgot to mention how it was in this scene that they show captain marvel holding the gauntlet and it really begs the question, "why didnt she just put it on?" seems like tony didn't have to die.

They never planned to use it at first, just send it back through the wormhole. It was only after the van was destroyed that they had no choi e but to use the stones.
 

hbenthow

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I figured out what I think would have been the ideal way to end Steve's story.

In the scene in which Steve and Tony went back to the 1970s, they should have only gone to get the Pym particles so that they could make more trips, rather than also getting the Tesseract there. During the scene, it would be established that stealing the Pym particles absolutely requires teamwork (one person cannot do it alone, due to the lab having some sort of special security measures). After getting the Pym particles, they should have made a trip to 1945, to take the Tesseract right after Howard Stark found it in the ocean. On the mission, Tony could interact with the youthful version of his father, and Steve could see Peggy Carter (just as in the actual movie, but in the 1940s instead of the 1970s).

Later, in the final battle, Thanos or his minions would be about to destroy the van, when Captain America comes up with a plan. He will take all of the remaining Pym particles (which happen to be just enough for him to return all of the stones to their corrects moments in time, but not enough to get him back afterward) and go on a one-way trip to return them. Professor Hulk programs the quantum tunnel to send Steve to the right times and places in a pre-programmed order while the other Avengers fight to protect the van from Thanos. Steve goes in, disappearing mere moments before the van is destroyed. It is eventually revealed that Professor Hulk programmed the machine so that Steve's last stop was returning the Tesseract to Howard Stark in 1945. Just as in the actual movie, the ending features Steve and Peggy dancing.
 

Masirimso17

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@"hbenthow" That’s also good, but personally I feel the movie version is tighter with the time travel scenes. As for the ending I love his and Bucky’s interaction before the trip and then old Steve handing he shied to Falcon which was probably a must have (then again they could have still kept it your way, having old Steve attend the funeral in secret and have Falcon notice him etc.)
 

kkimble

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Masirimso17 said:
kkimble said:
macmilln said:
musiced921 said:
@"kkimble" I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

That being said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate or start to get heated. I think we can all agree that no matter what individual scenes we may have had some concerns with, this movie did nothing less than provide a wonderful 10 year payoff that we haven’t seen in a franchise before and probably won’t for a while.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using a thread about a movie to respectfully debate about the same movie.

I agree with @"kkimble", for one pretty much undeniable reason: they cut a scene just like that for that very reason.

If you have Disney+, you can view deleted scenes, not just the ones that are available with the home release, but scenes that were deleted from the deleted scenes. Deleted-deleted scenes, with directors commentary as well!

There is one titled “In the Trenches” which has the battle pause for a few minutes where all the characters gather together to regroup/plan their attack. It’s cool seeing this kind of thing in a battle this huge, with all the characters we get to see interacting, but as the Russos themselves point out on the commentary, it makes no sense. There is no reason for it to exist in the narrative, and it seems very contrived.

This is exactly how I feel about the “She’s Got Help” scene (along with the realism element I mentioned previously), and this is how I believe every other rational human who doesn’t like it feels as well.

I forgot to mention how it was in this scene that they show captain marvel holding the gauntlet and it really begs the question, "why didnt she just put it on?" seems like tony didn't have to die.

They never planned to use it at first, just send it back through the wormhole. It was only after the van was destroyed that they had no choi e but to use the stones.

But their plan to return the stones would have left thanos and his armies there with them. She could have used the stones and then still returned them. This is an issue I can’t get passed.
 

kkimble

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Masirimso17 said:
kkimble said:
macmilln said:
musiced921 said:
@"kkimble" I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

That being said, I don’t want this thread to turn into a debate or start to get heated. I think we can all agree that no matter what individual scenes we may have had some concerns with, this movie did nothing less than provide a wonderful 10 year payoff that we haven’t seen in a franchise before and probably won’t for a while.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using a thread about a movie to respectfully debate about the same movie.

I agree with @"kkimble", for one pretty much undeniable reason: they cut a scene just like that for that very reason.

If you have Disney+, you can view deleted scenes, not just the ones that are available with the home release, but scenes that were deleted from the deleted scenes. Deleted-deleted scenes, with directors commentary as well!

There is one titled “In the Trenches” which has the battle pause for a few minutes where all the characters gather together to regroup/plan their attack. It’s cool seeing this kind of thing in a battle this huge, with all the characters we get to see interacting, but as the Russos themselves point out on the commentary, it makes no sense. There is no reason for it to exist in the narrative, and it seems very contrived.

This is exactly how I feel about the “She’s Got Help” scene (along with the realism element I mentioned previously), and this is how I believe every other rational human who doesn’t like it feels as well.

I forgot to mention how it was in this scene that they show captain marvel holding the gauntlet and it really begs the question, "why didnt she just put it on?" seems like tony didn't have to die.

They never planned to use it at first, just send it back through the wormhole. It was only after the van was destroyed that they had no choi e but to use the stones.

But their plan to return the stones would have left thanos and his armies there with them. She could have used the stones and then still returned them. This is an issue I can’t get passed. Shouldn’t their plan have changed the moment Thanos showed up? They would have taken any opportunity to use the gauntlet and win.
 

addiesin

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They knew it would kill whoever used it. They believed they could resolve the conflict without having to use it.
 

Hymie

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Yeah, once Thanos showed up the goal was to return the stones so he would not have the chance to recapture them and use them.  They knew they had no chance to beat him with the stones, and clearly the idea of sacrifice isn't going to be immediately on the table.
 
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