If this is your first time here please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot. More details on our policies, especially our Own the Source rule are available here. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.

November 2018 FEOTM - Every month we ask the community to vote on their Favorite Fanedit of the Month. To view the nominees and vote visit this thread.

Separating Sound Effects, Dialogue and Music?
(11-17-2018, 06:05 PM)addiesin Wrote: Adobe Audition, which I haven't opened or looked at in years since CS5 or 6, appears to have a sound remover effect that works like noise removal, but with parameters that allow better tweaking and specifically an option to avoid dialogue frequencies. I'll test out on a dirty center channel and see what kind of results I can get. It's in the Adobe CC 2019 release.

https://helpx.adobe.com/audition/using/n...ver_effect


Edit: it also has a spectral editor so no need for Spectra Layers.

https://helpx.adobe.com/audition/how-to/...-reduction

Very curious to see how well that works out!
Completed- Batman: The Man Who Laughs, Halloween Resurrection: Resurrected, Halloween II (The Likable Characters Cut), Halloween: 10 Years of Terror
ITW- Halloween 2007 (The 1978 cut), A Final Scream (Scream 4 edit), Jaws: The Meg, Boondock Saints II: The PC edit. 
Reply
(11-17-2018, 09:45 PM)Ryantology Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 06:05 PM)addiesin Wrote: Adobe Audition, which I haven't opened or looked at in years since CS5 or 6, appears to have a sound remover effect that works like noise removal, but with parameters that allow better tweaking and specifically an option to avoid dialogue frequencies. I'll test out on a dirty center channel and see what kind of results I can get. It's in the Adobe CC 2019 release.

https://helpx.adobe.com/audition/using/n...ver_effect


Edit: it also has a spectral editor so no need for Spectra Layers.

https://helpx.adobe.com/audition/how-to/...-reduction

Very curious to see how well that works out!

I messed with it last night and it certainly isn't a magic bullet.

Here's what I tried:

Noise reduction as a control group. This works about as well as you'd expect. Complete music removal but vocal frequencies are damaged and have a "washy" bitcrush tone/timbre. This is fine if you're just doing something quick and slapdash. It's also fine in most cases that you'll be adding louder music. It's you want to have a quiet scene it's not the best option. Overall quality of the plug-in is better than the free equivalent in Audacity, but not so much better that it's worth getting an Adobe subscription just for this.

Spectrum editing, manually and visually selecting portions of the frequency spectrum and deleting them. Results: good for specific sound removal, bad for noise reduction. Deleting too many frequencies turns voices into Star Wars Stormtroopers. Without being an audio expert and knowing which frequencies are most common to human voices by heart, this is not a viable way to clean music out of a track but works for sound effects and infrequently occurring/sudden noises.

Sound reduction using my own voice and a baby noise machine "heartbeat" sound in the same recorded track. Used the portion of the track without my voice for the sound model. Was able to effectively remove the heartbeat sound and retain my voice. Minor bitcrush/washiness that could probably be reduced with settings tweaks.

Sound reduction using a portion of a movie's center channel (single mono wav WAV file) with music and without dialogue as the sound model. Applied effect to portion of track that used the same music track but with dialogue. This works surprisingly well, with some caveats. I tried default "complexity" settings and high settings and got some different results, though which is better depends situationally. I didn't test each individual setting to see what each did, just tried default then max for all. The portion I used for the sound model was a second or two long.

Sound reduction with the audio CD soundtrack used as a sound model. Applied to movie center channel. First, stereo track had to be converted to two mono tracks. Used entire track as sound model. Results: Didn't work at all. Reduced all audio to weird noises that sounded like shuffling paper. I probably will experiment more with this until I crack it. Maybe the recording was different, or the mastering, or the volumes, or maybe there's too much info in the stereo soundtrack compared to what's in the center channel of the surround track from the film.

Will report back with more findings as I go. Maybe with clips to share. Last night was rather off the cuff.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// IdeasIdea Central //
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Reply
(11-18-2018, 03:23 PM)addiesin Wrote: Here's what I tried:

Noise reduction as a control group. This works about as well as you'd expect. Complete music removal but vocal frequencies are damaged

What about non-complete music removal? Is it possible to significantly reduce (but not eliminate) music and retain (mostly) undamaged dialogue?
Reply
(11-18-2018, 04:02 PM)TM2YC Wrote:
(11-18-2018, 03:23 PM)addiesin Wrote: Here's what I tried:

Noise reduction as a control group. This works about as well as you'd expect. Complete music removal but vocal frequencies are damaged

What about non-complete music removal? Is it possible to significantly reduce (but not eliminate) music and retain (mostly) undamaged dialogue?

Yes, if your plug-in allows you to adjust the amount of reduction.

If you don't have control over little settings and percentage of the effect applied, you could still duplicate your original track and align the two, apply the effect to one copy, and adjust volume between them. Maybe use a medium to heavy application of equalization to the original to reduce the louder frequencies already present in the noise-removed track.

But you shouldn't have to do that, you can absolutely use less aggressive settings and get a lighter result. 

The biggest problem in my opinion is if you're using in-film audio as the sound model (using sound reduction) or as the noise profile (using noise reduction) you're going to lose the room noise. That's why I wanted the CD soundtrack method to work. It might be worth trying to take the damaged audio and lay it over some home-recorded room noise to see if that fills the gaps. Maybe apply a light reverb to the dialogue.

In any case, the Adobe Audition training video for noise reduction suggests doing several light passes instead of one aggressive pass. When I have some time I'll try this with CD audio, with short instrument sounds to see if I can maybe pull the score out piece by piece.

Another thing I just thought of, there's a karaoke style vocal remove effect. In theory if that worked well and removed dialogue perfectly, you could do the track duplication trick, use vocal remove on one track, then invert it. This would, in theory, make a negative out of that track and effectively preserve ONLY what was originally removed.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// IdeasIdea Central //
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)