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The Last Movie(s) You Watched... (quick one or two sentence reviews)

Moe_Syzlak

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There Will Be Blood. The first of my American Dream Triple Feature (Godfather, Citizen Kane). This is probably Anderson’s best film, though I feel it isn’t as quite as ambitious as others. My favorite Anderson movie is Magnolia in the same way that my favorite Coen movie is Raising Arizona. Favorite isn’t always best. There Will Be Blood shows that the success takes work and sacrifice. But it also shows that has costs. It expertly weaves this A story of capitalism in America with the B story of religion in America in what is ultimately an allegory. A masterpiece, pure and simple.
 

TM2YC

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^ I really must revisit that one some time. I don't remember thinking it was particularly remarkable at the time but everybody in the human race since then seems to think it was a masterpiece... so I'm sure I'm wrong :D .
 

Moe_Syzlak

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TM2YC said:
^ I really must revisit that one some time. I don't remember thinking it was particularly remarkable at the time but everybody in the human race since then seems to think it was a masterpiece... so I'm sure I'm wrong :D .

It is way more straightforward than other Anderson films. Which is not to say it is simple—it has rich subtext—it just doesn’t have anything as crazy as raining frogs. Though, of course, it still does have a jarring conclusion, an Anderson hallmark. As I said above, it is a parable that works on many levels: capitalism, America, religion, oil itself, even masculinity. It, more than a few times, invites you to draw parallels between oil and blood, and what lies just below the surface—of earth and men. That said, I’m an unabashed Anderson fanboy and the movie may not be as powerful to non-Americans.

FYI: it’s on Netflix at the moment (many Anderson Films are), though I know that availability can vary country to country.
 

mnkykungfu

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^I'm an American and it's not powerful to me.  Like many critical darlings, I think PTA is over-rated.  I'm not into so-called "magical realism" or story suddenly turning into pure allegory, so the ending to TWBB really turns me off.  Aside from the fact that (though well-made) it's a thoroughly unenjoyable watch.  So, I'm with you, TM2YC.  Go ahead everyone else, bring the hate.  ;)
 

Moe_Syzlak

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mnkykungfu said:
^I'm an American and it's not powerful to me.  Like many critical darlings, I think PTA is over-rated.  I'm not into so-called "magical realism" or story suddenly turning into pure allegory, so the ending to TWBB really turns me off.  Aside from the fact that (though well-made) it's a thoroughly unenjoyable watch.  So, I'm with you, TM2YC.  Go ahead everyone else, bring the hate.  ;)

giphy-facebook_s.jpg


:p

Seriously though, I think you and I are about as close to opposite in our views on movies as can be. But that’s what makes movies great. Cheers!

But can you be specific about what you feel is pure allegory in the ending. It’s shocking and the fact that it’s become a meme has lessened its impact, but I see the story’s conclusion working perfectly fine without the allegory.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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The Godfather. Next up in my American Dream triple feature. I’ve only seen this film about a million times. It’s my favorite movie of all time. Not very original, I know; but it is. As such, this isn’t so much a review as a rumination. One thing that struck me while watching it this time with the express intent to view it in terms of the American Dream is that I can no longer view this movie in isolation. My feelings toward it are inextricably tied to my knowledge of Godfather II, which I view to be equally as good. Godfather II is probably the better movie specifically about the American Dream and I may have to make my triple feature a quadruple feature.
 

mnkykungfu

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Moe_Syzlak said:
But can you be specific about what you feel is pure allegory in the ending.
I appreciate the craft of the film, and the precision of all DDL's choices.  So that when he is finally on top of the world and has everything he could want, I'm not sold that he would throw it all away for petty revenge, brazenly murdering a man in such a way that he could lose everything.  He's too smart, too restrained, too careful.  It only makes sense if you look at it as a thematic conclusion to the overall story rather than that character's particular action.  So then you have to evaluate TWBB based on the allegory it is, which is really what it's all about.  And all that is well and good, but to me it's too simple and obvious.  It's just not very interesting, and certainly not enjoyable.

This particular forum is all about brevity, so rather than explaining here, I'll just throw up a couple links.  It's all been said before elsewhere.  The "dumbed down" version: https://worldclassstupid.blogspot.com/2008/01/symbolism-allusions-and-imagery-in.html
Commentary: https://collider.com/there-will-be-blood-ending-explained/
Point by point: https://www.gradesaver.com/there-will-be-blood/study-guide/symbols-allegory-motifs
Line by line: https://thescriptlab.com/features/s...ed/1010-know-your-ending-there-will-be-blood/
 

Moe_Syzlak

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Who says

he threw it all away?! To me, he knows he can kill this down and out preacher and not be held accountable. That’s the station in life he’s achieved, the station in America.

We’ll have to, as usual, agree to disagree. I feel the movie works very well and realistically on the surface level but also has many layers of allegory. If you’re not a fan of allegory, I can see it not being an enjoyable watch.
 

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Logan's Run (1976)

Jenny Agutter's legs & butt. Quoth the Kool-Aid Man, "Oh yeah!"

7/10
 

Moe_Syzlak

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The Godfather Part II. A sequel/prequel that works so well on both counts that it improves its predecessor immeasurably. As I mentioned in my Godfather review, I can’t watch that movie without the knowledge of GF2, and why would you want to. At some point I saw Godfather without knowledge of GF2 and I loved it. But this is the rare sequel (let alone prequel) that not only adds to the story, it makes subsequent viewing of the original much much stronger. This is really where the American Dream themes become realized. It’s still more of a story about family than mafia, but in Part II we really get the American Dream themes full force that were hinted at in the original. It’s rare that a prequel or a sequel justifies its own existence. Godfather II manages to pull off both simultaneously. It’s not as neat narratively as the first one, but it doesn’t have to be. And it doesn’t stand on its own; the first Godfather is required viewing. But in a way, this one becomes required viewing for the first one.
 

mnkykungfu

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Moe_Syzlak said:
I feel the movie works very well and realistically on the surface level but also has many layers of allegory. If you’re not a fan of allegory, I can see it not being an enjoyable watch.
I'll collapse this for brevity here:
I actually do like the allegory, but I want to see more than just an obvious (to me) metaphor.  I had the same issue with Mother!.  Probably there's a version of that last scene that would work for me, but maybe it was the jarring experience of a subtle film suddenly going so over-the-top.  Not to get political, but I keep thinking how Trump told that reporter "I could shoot someone in the street and (the government) wouldn't do anything."  But he doesn't.  He doesn't need to, like Plainview as a man doesn't need to.  It's only needed for the metaphor to be complete.
I guess here's my deal: I like films that are purely poetic metaphor, and films that establish real characters.  What I don't like is when a film can't explain something as a character motivation without leaning on the metaphor.  (I'm very conflicted about Birdman for this reason, because I love the film right up to those last few seconds.) 
I know you see it differently, though, not trying to change your mind.  Was just chiming in that I too am not overwhelmed by that particular film.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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mnkykungfu said:
Moe_Syzlak said:
I feel the movie works very well and realistically on the surface level but also has many layers of allegory. If you’re not a fan of allegory, I can see it not being an enjoyable watch.
I'll collapse this for brevity here:
I actually do like the allegory, but I want to see more than just an obvious (to me) metaphor.  I had the same issue with Mother!.  Probably there's a version of that last scene that would work for me, but maybe it was the jarring experience of a subtle film suddenly going so over-the-top.  Not to get political, but I keep thinking how Trump told that reporter "I could shoot someone in the street and (the government) wouldn't do anything."  But he doesn't.  He doesn't need to, like Plainview as a man doesn't need to.  It's only needed for the metaphor to be complete.
I guess here's my deal: I like films that are purely poetic metaphor, and films that establish real characters.  What I don't like is when a film can't explain something as a character motivation without leaning on the metaphor.  (I'm very conflicted about Birdman for this reason, because I love the film right up to those last few seconds.) 
I know you see it differently, though, not trying to change your mind.  Was just chiming in that I too am not overwhelmed by that particular film.

I just don’t see it the way you do at all. I think it is perfectly in keeping with his character. For the whole film he is petty and spiteful. And to him he suffered his greatest indignities at the hands of Eli. We had just seen him cast off his son in the most heinous way and he loved his son, despite his claims. It doesn’t seem at all out of character to me for him to lose it with Eli, a man he despises. But I didn’t care for mother! or Birdman at all and many others did. That’s the beauty of movies; two people can view something totally differently and one doesn’t have to be wrong. Cheers.
 

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Moe_Syzlak said:
But I didn’t care for mother! or Birdman at all and many others did. That’s the beauty of movies; two people can view something totally differently and one doesn’t have to be wrong.

You can't say that here! This is the Internet!
 

Moe_Syzlak

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The Gentlemen. The wife wasn’t up for Citizen Kane so we watched this. This is definitely a Guy Ritchie movie and if you like his signature movies you’ll like this. I did. It’s entertaining for what it is. I’ve no interest in ever seeing it again, though. But seriously wtf is the English obsession with f*cking pigs!? I could’ve done without that scene. Also, does anyone else just love supporting role Colin Farrell way more than lead Colin Farrell? He’s so great when he isn’t the lead.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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Citizen Kane. I won’t go on about the technical influence this movie had; I’ll keep it to the themes I’ve been exploring of the American Dream. This movie is strangely the most timely of the three American Dream stories I’ve watched (There Will Be Blood, The Godfather I & II). Xanadu/Mar a Lago. The difference between Charles Foster Kane and President Tiny Hands is the former has intelligence and at least started with a modicum of compassion and decnecy. Of course Kane never did gain elected office. The voters nearly a century ago were obviously wiser than those of today. Don’t get me wrong, it’s almost insulting to Kane to compare him to President Cheeto Face. Kane starts his adult life with a silver spoon and a mission to make the world a better place. He stands up for his principles in the face of loss and embarrassment. But Kane’s motives don’t feel altruistic. Rather, they seem a desire to curry favor, to have people like him.

Ultimately, he’s alone. He’s abandoned his morals and all that he truly cares about to hold onto his wealth and power. He dies a legend, but also completely unfulfilled. We’re left wondering what is better: to be an idealist uncorrupted, but also without much influence, or to have the power and have that corrosion.

“If I hadn’t been very rich, I might’ve been a really great man.” I think Kane would’ve been a better man without the wealth, but he couldn’t have been as influential. Such is the dark side of the American Dream.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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Moe_Syzlak said:
There Will Be Blood. The first of my American Dream Triple Feature (Godfather, Citizen Kane). This is probably Anderson’s best film, though I feel it isn’t as quite as ambitious as others. My favorite Anderson movie is Magnolia in the same way that my favorite Coen movie is Raising Arizona. Favorite isn’t always best. There Will Be Blood shows that the success takes work and sacrifice. But it also shows that has costs. It expertly weaves this A story of capitalism in America with the B story of religion in America in what is ultimately an allegory. A masterpiece, pure and simple.

Moe_Syzlak said:
The Godfather. Next up in my American Dream triple feature. I’ve only seen this film about a million times. It’s my favorite movie of all time. Not very original, I know; but it is. As such, this isn’t so much a review as a rumination. One thing that struck me while watching it this time with the express intent to view it in terms of the American Dream is that I can no longer view this movie in isolation. My feelings toward it are inextricably tied to my knowledge of Godfather II, which I view to be equally as good. Godfather II is probably the better movie specifically about the American Dream and I may have to make my triple feature a quadruple feature.

Moe_Syzlak said:
The Godfather Part II. A sequel/prequel that works so well on both counts that it improves its predecessor immeasurably. As I mentioned in my Godfather review, I can’t watch that movie without the knowledge of GF2, and why would you want to. At some point I saw Godfather without knowledge of GF2 and I loved it. But this is the rare sequel (let alone prequel) that not only adds to the story, it makes subsequent viewing of the original much much stronger. This is really where the American Dream themes become realized. It’s still more of a story about family than mafia, but in Part II we really get the American Dream themes full force that were hinted at in the original. It’s rare that a prequel or a sequel justifies its own existence. Godfather II manages to pull off both simultaneously. It’s not as neat narratively as the first one, but it doesn’t have to be. And it doesn’t stand on its own; the first Godfather is required viewing. But in a way, this one becomes required viewing for the first one.

Moe_Syzlak said:
Citizen Kane. I won’t go on about the technical influence this movie had; I’ll keep it to the themes I’ve been exploring of the American Dream. This movie is strangely the most timely of the three American Dream stories I’ve watched (There Will Be Blood, The Godfather I & II). Xanadu/Mar a Lago. The difference between Charles Foster Kane and President Tiny Hands is the former has intelligence and at least started with a modicum of compassion and decnecy. Of course Kane never did gain elected office. The voters nearly a century ago were obviously wiser than those of today. Don’t get me wrong, it’s almost insulting to Kane to compare him to President Cheeto Face. Kane starts his adult life with a silver spoon and a mission to make the world a better place. He stands up for his principles in the face of loss and embarrassment. But Kane’s motives don’t feel altruistic. Rather, they seem a desire to curry favor, to have people like him.

Ultimately, he’s alone. He’s abandoned his morals and all that he truly cares about to hold onto his wealth and power. He dies a legend, but also completely unfulfilled. We’re left wondering what is better: to be an idealist uncorrupted, but also without much influence, or to have the power and have that corrosion.

“If I hadn’t been very rich, I might’ve been a really great man.” I think Kane would’ve been a better man without the wealth, but he couldn’t have been as influential. Such is the dark side of the American Dream.

Ultimately it seems the common themes of all of my American Dream movies are the quest for wealth and power even if it results in an emptiness, a sacrifice of that which originally inspired the Dream.

The thing these rags to riches American Dream stories have in common is something which I think America itself shares; an insecure upstart with good intentions loses itself in a spiral of arrogance. Wealth and power don’t equal fulfillment. Even a fortune can’t fill a hole in your heart. And as we strive, arrogantly, for more and more we allow that which is truly important to us to be forgotten and ultimately incinerated. Rosebud.
 

mnkykungfu

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Moe_Syzlak said:
The thing these rags to riches American Dream stories have in common is something which I think America itself shares; an insecure upstart with good intentions loses itself in a spiral of arrogance. Wealth and power don’t equal fulfillment. 
 Sadly, it sounds so pithy when you put it that way.  Almost self-evident.  I guess the power of the films though is that they make us pay attention to what we should already know, and thus we feel it even more truly.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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mnkykungfu said:
Moe_Syzlak said:
The thing these rags to riches American Dream stories have in common is something which I think America itself shares; an insecure upstart with good intentions loses itself in a spiral of arrogance. Wealth and power don’t equal fulfillment. 

 Sadly, it sounds so pithy when you put it that way.  Almost self-evident.  I guess the power of the films though is that they make us pay attention to what we should already know, and thus we feel it even more truly.

I love to like all of those films (Godfathers first, then TWBB, then CK), but watching with an eye towards the American Dream themes and how interconnected these movies really are despite being separated—by both actual years and setting years—by decades, really was an enjoyable experience. It really added to my overall appreciation of all three stories, particularly CK.
 
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