• Most new users don't bother reading our rules. Here's the one that is ignored almost immediately upon signup: DO NOT ASK FOR FANEDIT LINKS PUBLICLY. First, read the FAQ. Seriously. What you want is there. You can also send a message to the editor. If that doesn't work THEN post in the Trade & Request forum. Anywhere else and it will be deleted and an infraction will be issued.
  • If this is your first time here please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot, especially our Own the Source rule. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.
  • Please read our Rules & Guidelines

The ARROWVERSE (Flash, Arrow, Supergirl, Legends,etc)

MusicEd921

Well-known member
Donor
Messages
1,985
Reaction score
701
Trophy Points
143
Nothing sets the tone for a wedding like Diggle puke lol  ;)
 

gazza

Well-known member
Messages
509
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
18
one thing i liked about this crossover was how much it didnt feel like 4 separate stories like the last crossover ,this one felt like one movie cut into 4 parts which made the story flow a lot smoother.the fight scenes were well choreography was fantastic and at times there was so much action happening on the screen at once that demanded a re-watch. 

my only problem i had while watching is that flash just let Eobard Thawne walk away mid battle also i wish they could have found a way to banish overgirl and dark arrow instead of the outcome we received(would love to see them return maybe some point later)
 

Gaith

Well-known member
Faneditor
Messages
5,785
Reaction score
291
Trophy Points
123
Nic said:
Bringing back Thawne was cheap. I get that he's come back in comics before using Speed Force magic, but this was the wrong place to try and do that. Which is a shame, because I thought I just preferred Tom Cavanaugh over Matt Letscher (even though Letscher was still very good), but no, Thawne just being alive and evil despite being erased from history TWICE was just too much.  Having an evil-for-the-sake-of-evil Barry (different from Savitar) would have been a ot more fun. If they had to bring in Thawne (with or without Wells' face), he could have had his speed drained by Barry X like what happened with Zoom. Also, be vague on whether this is Earth-1 Thawne or Earth X-Thawne.

Couldn't agree more.


Sorry, folks: though there were some good moments, I found the overall event to be bad.

- Biggest problem: after a promising first part, it got pretty darn dull, and never recovered. When the Legends are criss-crossing all of history and the world on a weekly basis, getting stuck for most of the event's remaining two hours in and around STAR Labs was a big letdown, and the final battle under the freeway wasn't even as cool as the rooftop Dominator battle. Worse yet was the trite script and heavy focus on relationship melodrama, with each damn conversation a near-replay of the last. And if our heroes' melodrama wasn't bad enough, we had to get X-Ollie and X-Kara's endless melodrama, besides! Ugh.

- The lack of a single, dominating (no pun intended) villain was a big problem. Thawne, X-Kara or X-Quentin Lance would have made great baddies, but diffusing their power and having all the villains endlessly bicker like Klingons on in a lesser TNG ep severely drained the tension.

- Speaking of Earth 1-Thawne, after seeing him erased from existence twice, to resurrect him with zero explanation was incredibly lame, as was his out-of-nowhere well-established alliance withe the X-Nazis. And why was he taking orders from X-Ollie, anway? If he was afraid of Kara, and more taking orders from her, that might have been one thing, but in that case he should have taken the opportunity to kill her, and seize control of Earth-X and the operation for himself.

- Which reminds me, the X-team's refusal to kill the Team Arrow members or the rest of the gang was pointless and stupid. Why lock them away, and then send the others to Earth-X instead of summarily executing them, especially when that's to be their Earth-X fate anyway? It made the X-Nazis look both incompetent and not entirely vicious, both of which sucked.

- Our "heroes" gave outrageously zero fucks about Earth-X and its civilians in general, and, when the Resistance sheltered them (in a shameless re-use of the Arrowcave set, which would have been fine if somebody didn't uselessly speculate aloud that they were therefore in X-Star City), they were nothing but total assholes to their hosts. Barely a word of empathy, encouragement, and zero promises to help later; they instead instantly demand the Resistance bend over backwards for them and their world, and then Alex harangued X-Winn when he didn't leap to do so. (That actor/character is still the worst, but the way, but that's another series.) Then the team tried to make us think that Nazis' breaching device was their only opportunity to ever get home, which is completely absurd, given that interdimensional hopping is routinely portrayed as a cinch across the shows. In short: "What a bunch of a-holes."

- Large battles in which speedsters are zipping around, and yet not making everyone else redundant, strains my credulity. Add multiple Kryptonians to the mix, and things just get absurd. Also, the visual trope of Kryptonians perfectly evenly eye-beaming each other for seconds on end, with zero result, starts out dumb and gets dumber each time they do it.

- Okay, time for some positives. Despite finding him one of the worst actors I'd ever seen in LoT S1, Franz Drameh was pretty good in Part Four, and I loved Leo Snart. And there were some cute lines and moments here and there.

- But, alas, it must always be noted: Barry/Iris is still gross. Also gross: letting your marriage be officiated with a guy who just vomited. Never mind that Barry literally kidnapped Diggle; he couldn't have spent a few more seconds zooming off to get him a soda to wash out his mouth and throat? And couldn't they move more than five feet away from his grass-stained puke?

- And, finally... I found the Earth-X Nazi thing problematic. Part of the villainy of Nazis, both WW2 and contemporary, is that, with only a few exceptions (say, the youngest of the Third Reich citizens), they grew up in a world with democracy and freedom, and no Nazism. Ergo, they should have, and did, know better. The Earth-X Nazis, however, are third- or fourth-generation Nazis, making their culpability all kinds of murky; they're more like contemporary North Koreans than Nazis as we know them. (Iron Sky runs into the same problem, but The Man in the High Castle has the time and depth to really explore such issues, and give us strange but credible things like second/third generation Nazi hippies.) This event ran much closer to exploitation and cheapening of the issues at hand, IMO.

Conclusion: the best Arrowverse crossovers so far have been the lower-key ones: "All-Star Team Up", "Flash vs. Arrow"/"The Brave and The Bold", LoT's Grodd episode immediately prior to this... hell, all of LoT, if one can call an entire series a "low-key" crossover, which is bananas, but, I just did. I'm sure these huge events must be incredibly difficult to pull off, but if "Invasion!" and this are the best they can do, I'd frankly rather they not do them at all.

Overall Grade: C-. After the first part, I'm afraid I really didn't enjoy it - way too much loud and meaningless automatic weapons fire - and I certainly won't be rewatching.
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
Some nice analysis about the differences between between DC TV and DC Movies...

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuE75ij3ezg[/video]
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
For all those you felt Felicity hijacked Barry and Iris's wedding, it seems Iris may share your feelings....

At the 1 minute mark... 

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bbi8rUD1dA[/video]

I thought this was hilarious and makes me wonder what was going in the writer's room.
 

MusicEd921

Well-known member
Donor
Messages
1,985
Reaction score
701
Trophy Points
143
bionicbob said:
For all those you felt Felicity hijacked Barry and Iris's wedding, it seems Iris may share your feelings....

AND Oliver and Felicity gave them a gift that WASN'T on the registry and made it's way to the returns pile.  It definitely seems that the writers from Flash were annoyed that the West/Allen wedding was tainted by Olicity nonsense.

And yet, Guggenheim still keeps his job despite having a terrible track record.  He must have dirt on someone.
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
In the tradition of Fight Club and Fight Club 2.0, another fun Arrowverse promo....

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGsfpJzgVKA[/video]
 

Gaith

Well-known member
Faneditor
Messages
5,785
Reaction score
291
Trophy Points
123
^ Ugh. Kid Flash is still around? I thought we'd agreed to keep him mostly off-screen from now on? I really hope he doesn't join the Legends, as they've got enough characters as is, and adding a full-time speedster would severely upset the powers balance...
 

gazza

Well-known member
Messages
509
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
18
Gaith said:
^ Ugh. Kid Flash is still around? I thought we'd agreed to keep him mostly off-screen from now on? I really hope he doesn't join the Legends, as they've got enough characters as is, and adding a full-time speedster would severely upset the powers balance...

apparently kid flash is supposed to be limiting screentime to star as a season regular  show coming soon called titans(looking forward to see which direction and how much budget they will sink into this live-action version of teen titans)
 

DSM2337

Well-known member
Faneditor
Messages
266
Reaction score
8
Trophy Points
28
Interesting comment from Marc Guggenheim on Twitter regarding Crisis On Earth X:
I tried to get this released as a single, seamless -- no act breaks -- "movie."  Maybe even with new material. What stopped us?  Ironically, union rules regarding credit.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
104
Trophy Points
68
I know it's not officially part of the Arrowverse (yet), but given that it has the same producer and airs on the same channel. I really want to talk about Black Lightning.

For me, this is the type of show that Like Cage should be, getting deeper into the issues that the black community faces. Obviously, as a white person, I can't claim that as an absolute fact, but this show made me feel more uncomfortable in its Pilot alone than Luke Cage did in it's entire first season (and took until The Defenders to get to, and that was only in one episode for 5 minutes).

Plus, since there are at least three scenes focusing on the pain Black Lightning's body takes (the cuts/scars he has and the blood washed away by the water), this show also does a more meatier martyr complex than Daredevil.

Also, it does a really efficient job of world-building, establishing where Jefferson was and where he is now, why he started, why he quit, setting up supporting cast as well as his enemies, and further proves why "done-in-one" tv episode models feel more satisfying than Netflix's "stretch out plot and story points longer than they have to go in order to fill an episode quota" model.

I didn't mean for this to sound like a diatribe against Netflix, but Jessica Jones was the only one of those that felt wholly satisfying (aside from the Punisher parts in Daredevil season 2, haven't seen the Punisher series yet), but even that show stretched itself out more than it needed too, even though you could argue the never-ending cat and mouse game was part of the point.

My only complaint with Black Lightning is that the beginning narration tells the audience he's back, but that assuredness gets undercut by still having to see him get to that point. Then again, that's just a nitpick.

Overall, beyond satisfied with Black Lightning, hope it gets even better.
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
I totally agree @"Nic" the Black Lightning premiere was exceptionally strong.  And like you, I enjoyed it significantly more than Luke Cage.   But then again, I enjoy all the Arrowverse shows more than the Netflix ones.

It also clearly shows, their is still unlimited story potential in superhero franchises, and the claims of superhero fatigue is more of an issue poor writing/production than the genre having been mined out.   

As for whether Black Lightning exists in the Arrowverse proper or not.... they clearly stated in the background news broadcast that superheroes exist in other cities.   So he could exist next door to Ollie and Barry or on an alternate Earth.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
104
Trophy Points
68
Whether Black Lightning will ever crossover with the other Arrowverse shows, that’s actually kinda tricky. During its production, Black Lightning was originally intended to air on Fox (because lord knows, they need a different comic book show to save them from the sinking ship that is Gotham), only for that deal to fall through and for the show to wind up on the CW. The other big reason that Black Lightning wasn’t originally meant to be part of the Arrowverse is because of shooting location. Flash, Arrow, Supergirl, and Legends are all shot in Vancouver Canada, but Black Lightning is being shot in Atlanta, Georgia (no doubt due to Atlanta being a predominantly black city). However, Greg Berlanti HAS said that whether Black Lightning does ultimately belong to the Arrowverse is up to the higher ups at the CW.

Personally, even though it’s shot like the other shows that started on the CW and didn’t just switch channels to save the budget, I hope they reveal that the Black Lightning takes place in the same world as Supergirl, since originally the creators decided to set everything in Freeland (which was created for the show) because they planned it as a stand alone series and couldn’t set it in the southern area of Metropolis, like in the comics. Granted, National City in Supergirl seems like it’s supposed to be Los Angeles, but it would be nice for Black Lightning to name drop Superman,
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
Funny and so true.... 

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeBM2-yXElk[/video]
 

Gaith

Well-known member
Faneditor
Messages
5,785
Reaction score
291
Trophy Points
123
^ Excellent. :D

Also worth noting: especially in her courtroom scenes, The Flash's current co-Big Bad Kim Engelbrecht looks a lot like Rachel Weisz. Obviously, I am totally okay with this.

tumblr_p2q7rjqiq81wjdgyxo2_1280.jpg

my-cousin-rachel.jpg

I've been enjoying this season of The Flash more than the last, but almost halfway through the season, we still have virtually no clue what The Thinker's big scheme is. Which again raises the question: why must this series (as well as all the other Arrowverse shows?) insist upon one Big Bad/overall storyline per season? Why not do several mini-arcs, as Agents of SHIELD has done its past few years? Is it just laziness on the writers' part?
 

bionicbob

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
8,265
Reaction score
2,389
Trophy Points
168
RANT  :mad:

While not directly related to the Arrowverse... but sorta....

Super Hero Fatigue.

I believe there is still and always will be unlimited storytelling potential in the Super Hero genre, just as there is in Cop Shows, Medical shows, Legal shows, Soaps, etc....   It is all comes down to quality people telling quality stories.

But when Studios simply cash in and flood the market with crap, it is inevitable the bottom will fall out for audiences.

I am looking at you my beloved DC Comics.

So we got SUPERGIRL.  A quality show that captures the magic and spirit of the comics.

And rather than cultivate and build upon the Superman Franchise, the studio has decided to dilute it.

We got TWO PREQUELS in the works.....
KRYPTON by David Goyer (this guy really needs to retire from Superheroes) on Sci-fi

and now word has come downs that the new DC streaming service will also have a Superman prequel titled...
METROPOLIS... its from the same producers as GOTHAM (an insane and pure crap Batman show) and the premise is this....  
Lois Lane teams up with Lex Luthor to investigate paranormal activity.... wtf?!?!   
Who at DC thought this was a good idea?

Futhermore, none of these show are connected to each other.  To me, this causes Brand Confusion for the casual audience and frustration for the hardcore audience.  No one wins in my opinion.

But who knows, maybe in this shotgun approach, there might be something interesting....?  :blush:
 

gazza

Well-known member
Messages
509
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
18
^^^ wouldnt surprise me if they bring out a gotham spinoff show later on down the line called alfred pennyworth
 

Nic

Well-known member
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
104
Trophy Points
68
I only just saw last week's Arrow, All For Nothing, today, and I actually had something to say about it that I wanted to get out before it becomes dated in an hour.

So, this season of Arrow so far hasn’t been one that has really inspired me to write anything about it up to this point. It really feels like as soon as Team Arrow was done with Adrian Chase, that the show’s tension dropped when the showrunners decided to put Team Arrow up against a black hat hacker (which seems to be turning around, since it turns out Cayden James is being played like everyone else, but will still be disappointing if it’s not Anatoly being the master planner). But, now, there’s finally something of note to talk about. Unfortunately, much like Laurel Lance’s death in season 1, it’s quite controversial.

The plot of the episode involves Vincent Soble, secret identity of Vigilante and boyfriend of Dinah Drake, aka, Black Canary, reveals his double agent status to Team Arrow so as to figure out where Cayden’s bomb is being hidden. He gets the information, but is outed and winds up tortured by Cayden and Anatoly. Oliver thinks they should go after the bomb since Vincent knew what he was signing up for, but Dinah doesn’t want to lose Vincent again. Unfortunately, it goes poorly on both ends: Oliver and Diggle fail to get the bomb, and Dinah and The Outsiders fail to save Vincent, who ends up being killed by Black Siren/ Earth 2 Laurel Lance, who actually seemed shook up at the act due to her father’s attempts to reach out to her. Consumed by grief, Dinah states her intention to kill all of Cayden’s associates, starting with Laurel.

I’ve really been giving this episode the mental once-over since I saw it. On the one hand, Dinah does bring up a good point near the episode’s climax; that if either Oliver or John’s wives, Felicity or Lyla, were put in the position Vincent was, there would be no debate over putting their loved ones above the city’s needs. In fact, Felicity did just that in the Season 3 finale, “My Name is Oliver Queen.” When she’s given the choice between spreading the cure to a virus that threatens to kill Star City’s population or saving Oliver, she finds a way to do both by piloting the A.T.O.M. suit. However, that was a situation where the ability to achieve both goals were set up by the both the episode and the season (Felicity had Ray Palmer guiding her through radio, and Felicity had also helped build the A.T.O.M. suit). Compared to an episode from this current season, “Irreconcilable Differences,” after being let back on to Team Arrow after having outed Oliver’s identity to the FBI, Rene, aka, Wild Dog, opts to directly disobey Oliver on the next mission by not staying in his position and going on his own in order to save a captive Quentin Lance. Yes, he was successful, but there was no guarantee that Wild Dog’s actions would have been successful, and Oliver was right to kick him off the team (even if he was a jerk about it).

Up until the midseason finale, I didn’t have a problem with The Outsiders (still don’t with Curtis), and I even respect to a degree the decision to not just undo Laurel’s death by just replacing her with Black Siren and give death some meaning in Oliver’s corner of the Arrowverse. Oliver, John, Laurel, Thea, and Felicity had too much faith that John’s brother Andy would not betray them, but he did, and Laurel died as a result and Damien Dhark gained his power granting tidol (let’s just ignore that Team Arrow put the idol back together after it was smashed for no adequately explained reason).  And, regardless of how one feels about the way she died, the fallout did exactly that, as it forced at least Oliver and John to do what was necessary to keep their loved ones safe, even if it meant killing Dhark and Andy. But now, we’re having history repeat with The Outsiders, with Curtis and Wild Dog supporting Dinah and had faith that they would be able to save Vincent. Except, not only did they fall into Cayden’s trap (he had turned Vincent’s comm links on to divide attention from the bomb), Oliver and Diggle lose track of the bomb and Vincent dies anyway. What’s worse, the episodes flashback story explaining how Dinah and Vincent fall in love revealed that he wanted to pull out of their undercover case, but she was adamant that they make sure that money was exchanged in a shady deal, resulting in Vincent dying for the first time. So, not only was Dinah responsible for Vincent’s first death, she’s also responsible for Cayden’s terror over Star City. However, I do not blame her for that. As much as I lauded Felicity’s feat in the season 3 finale, if she hadn’t found a third option, it sounded like she would have put Oliver over Star City. Fortunately, I don’t need to know the answer to that question, because Felicity has matured in three years.

Throughout the first half of this season, Oliver has taken care of his son William after his mother, Samantha, had died. However, since then, Olive has struggled between fighting for the city on the streets and promising his son to stop being the Green Arrow because William can’t lose both of his parents. In “We Fall,” when William learns that Oliver is still the Green Arrow, Felicity is able to talk to him and say to him that, yes, what his father does is scary, but the fact heroes don’t always make it home is something she has accepted, and that William has to believe his father will come home because it’s the only way to rationalize it. William forgives his father, and takes solace in the fact that even if Oliver dies, due to their being married at this point in the series, Felicity will still be the boys legal guardian. It shows that even if the show appears to be running out of steam, it still has the capability of conjuring a moment that tugs at the heartstrings.

Sadly, this seems to be lost on The Outsiders, especially Dinah. Granted, they did survive the complete immolation of Lian Yu, so that event is likely to create delusions of grandeur, but the point is that Dinah is not handling this in a mature way. That sounds harsh, because, obviously, her boyfriend just died for real, and people deal with grief in different ways, but there is still a madman with a bomb in the city, but rather than this being a moment of growth where she realizes that millions of people could die, she instead aims to go about this in a way that only plays to her selfish desire of revenge, not caring who gets caught up in her wake. But I could just be jumping the gun, since the most recent episode hasn’t come out yet, so I don’t know if Dinah is going to lash out at her fellow Outsiders or hurts fellow cops in her attempts to kill Black Siren. But I will say this: I still don’t have strong feelings if Black Siren lives or dies, but if she doesn’t get a heroic sacrifice and just gets beaten to death by Dinah, then I really will be on the side of Laurel’s fans who think Arrow’s writers are just trolling the fanbase.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
104
Trophy Points
68
Wound up writing something about last night's Legend's so I could get a concrete reaction on my Stardust App, and I found what I wrote was worth talking about.


My main takeaway from this episode is that it was dripping with lore. Aside from learning what happened to Nora Darhk after her father died, we learn that what appears to be a psychotic nurse just happens to be one who helps Nora utilize the power of Mallus within her. Also, between this episode, Nora's adult appearance, and her appearances between, I do hope that Nora gets to be a character in her own right, rather than just a vessel for Mallus or a Daddy's Girl to her father. Then again, you can't really fault the writers for utilizing the rules of their world, otherwise people would complain if Nora didn't try to resurrect her father. Really, I wish that she would take leadership of the Legion of Doom from her father, which might not happen since Damien is still too fun of a villain three seasons later.



Also in lore bits, there are six totems that can harm Mallus, but Amaya has only heard of three: the Animal Totem she has, the Water Totem from her granddaughter Kuasa, Sari's Wind Totem, and also Earth and Fire, with sixth unknown totem. As far as her subplot, I'm not sure if the writers needed to make Kuasa sympathetic, but I'm glad that they did, allowing her to care for her grandmother while still not hesitating to drown Nate if she feels she has to.
I get the feeling I would have enjoyed Sara's side of the story had I watched Constantine (which I want to, since it's on CW Seed), but there was still some good psychological and haunted house scares in the episode, and I loved Constantine's line of "there's always scrap to endure," as it's so true. Kudos on the writers also for remembering Sara is a bisexual, not a lesbian, and having her and Constantine trying to get into each other's pants. Also, while I haven't seen Constantine, I know there was a fiasco on his show because NBC didn't want the main character smoking, so that running gag was fun.

Aside from wondering where Ray's anti-magic gun will go (it was great to see them not just discard it), that's all I have to say about the episode. Looking forward to the time loop next week (glad they waited this long to get the writing down before taking a stab at this concept).
 

gazza

Well-known member
Messages
509
Reaction score
2
Trophy Points
18
Marvel’s Jessica Jones - Season 2 | Official Trailer 
released on netflix on march 8th . anyone else looking forward to season 2 or are you more excited for luke cage season 2
 
Top Bottom