• Most new users don't bother reading our rules. Here's the one that is ignored almost immediately upon signup: DO NOT ASK FOR FANEDIT LINKS PUBLICLY. First, read the FAQ. Seriously. What you want is there. You can also send a message to the editor. If that doesn't work THEN post in the Trade & Request forum. Anywhere else and it will be deleted and an infraction will be issued.
  • If this is your first time here please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot, especially our Own the Source rule. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.
  • Please read our Rules & Guidelines

Introducing Kids To Star Wars

Moe_Syzlak

Well-known member
Messages
3,452
Reaction score
1,162
Trophy Points
118
Detective said:
ThrowgnCpr said:
Detective said:
ThrowgnCpr said:
I don't want to see any more films, Star Wars or otherwise, with paper thin cliched good guys fighting the baddies.

If so, I'm curious how you view Rey.

I quite like Rey's character. I'm sure you're hinting at the Mary Sue argument, and I hold that this remains a weak and sexist argument. I liken Rey's abilities with the Force to any child or young person that shows incredible talent in something. I also love how her character brings back the gist of the Force from the OT. The bloodline/midichlorian/prophecy stuff from the PT was deflating and uninteresting.

I also feel that Rey's character is very similar to that of a young Luke. She has an inherent, unexplored talent for the Force and is passionate and headstrong (like many young adults). I don't find Luke's behavior or attitude 40 years later surprising or out of character. In fact, I would be shocked if he were the same impassioned leap-first do-gooder he was when he was 19 years old.  I also don't expect or require as a viewer see all of the events that happen in that 40 year span to accept how a character is portrayed. It is a logical progression in my mind.  I expect that the next 40 years of Rey's life, whatever that holds, will be challenging, and it will alter who she is as a person. At ~40 years old myself, I can assure you that I am nothing like my 19 year old self.

To bring this back on topic, I think that Rey is a fantastic character for kids. More than any character before in the saga, it shows that with a combination of natural talent and drive, anyone can do good and be important. No royal bloodlines or prophecies apply.

I'm not hinting at a Mary Sue argument - I'm hinting that she is just as "cliched good guy" and binary as Luke was in the OT.  But I agree and I like that aspect of her character too - someone simply "with a good heart".  Neither of them have any wavering in their sense of doing the right thing, regardless of the horrible things going on around them - that's who they are.

People change over 40 years of life, but how common is it to get to Luke's level of apathy in TLJ from the personality of Luke in the OT - especially after he had succeeded in his goal?  It's a complete 180.  Usually the angry old hermit comes from a cynical life-weary traveller who was mistreated by those they cared about most.  The journey just isn't realistic to me. Great if you all think it is - that's fine - I just don't see it.  Maybe if we were taken on the journey instead of just told about it it would be more believable, but that's not what we got.

I also agree and disliked the midichorlian/prophecy/bloodline stuff of the PT - anyone should be able to train and sense and move with the Force.  Some may find it easier to do so more than others - but all can access the Force on some level, and can improve with practice and hard work - yes - that is a much better foundation for a story for kids.

I think that you need to accept that you don’t see the movie the way many of us do. You didn’t get the Luke you wanted and now no amount of explaining to you the character arc decisions seem to sway you. Not that I think anyone is trying to sway you. But you clearly simply don’t want to listen so this is a pointless discussion (that we’ve had with you countless times). Maybe save your virtual breath for a couple of months for your complaints about Solo.
 

ThrowgnCpr

awol
Staff member
Messages
15,090
Reaction score
36
Trophy Points
133
Moe_Syzlak said:
I think that you need to accept that you don’t see the movie the way many of us do. You didn’t get the Luke you wanted and now no amount of explaining to you the character arc decisions seem to sway you. Not that I think anyone is trying to sway you. But you clearly simply don’t want to listen so this is a pointless discussion (that we’ve had with you countless times). Maybe save your virtual breath for a couple of months for your complaints about Solo.

^ All this. Frankly, Detective, I don't really care that you disliked TLJ or the direction of Luke's character. What gets frustrating, and when I feel the need to respond, is when snide remarks like "Johnson clearly hates Luke" and "The Last Jedi now makes me like the prequels" are peppered into any thread discussing Star Wars. It's nonsensical, hyperbolic, and borderline trolling. I'm really sorry that Luke's character arc isn't what you wanted. But continually interjecting your vitriol for the film isn't going to result in the sequel you wanted.
 

addiesin

Well-known member
Messages
5,889
Reaction score
1,502
Trophy Points
163
Detective said:
Maybe if we were taken on the journey instead of just told about it it would be more believable, but that's not what we got.

Ah ha. I would consider this perfectly valid criticism of the film. They broke the "show, don't tell" rule. That's nothing to do with personal preference or opinion. A reasonable and objective complaint. 

I also agree the new films' themes are better for kids than the prequels' themes.
 

TV's Frink

You Catch On Pretty Quick
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
23,676
Reaction score
406
Trophy Points
193
One thing that didn't get mentioned re: Rey and kids, my daughters love her for many reasons, but a primary one is she's female.  This is something the OT is sorely lacking (Leia aside).

They also like Leia and Holdo in TLJ.
 

reave

Well-known member
Staff member
Messages
4,404
Reaction score
207
Trophy Points
68
XPfydvv.gif


Enough with the TLJ debates. Let's get this back on topic.
 

asterixsmeagol

Well-known member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
2,012
Reaction score
924
Trophy Points
128
addiesin said:
Detective said:
Maybe if we were taken on the journey instead of just told about it it would be more believable, but that's not what we got.

Ah ha. I would consider this perfectly valid criticism of the film. They broke the "show, don't tell" rule. That's nothing to do with personal preference or opinion. A reasonable and objective complaint. 

I also agree the new films' themes are better for kids than the prequels' themes.

Maybe that's something we could have seen if Episodes VII and VIII had come out in the 80s or 90s, but making a movie starring Mark Hamill 35 years older than he was in Return of the Jedi necessitates having a Luke that's 35 years older as well. Maybe we could have had some flashbacks beyond the Kylo scene but I don't know how much a couple of extra flashbacks really could have done and anything more than a glimpse would open the gates to terrible CGI face reconstruction like we got with Tarkin and Leia.
 

Masirimso17

Well-known member
Cover Artist
Messages
2,138
Reaction score
238
Trophy Points
93
TVs Frink said:
Yes, if you're trying to protect your son from seeing Luke "ruined" then I'm gonna roll my eyes at it.

I completely agree with you but, while I don't want to be like a devil's advocate here or something, I'm curious about your opinion on this:

TVs Frink said:
I'm not going to hide the SE of the OT or the originals of the PT forever (in fact, I will explain in great detail what happened to both when the time is right), but I'll be damned if the first exposure they have to SW is the bastardized SE or the crap of the PT.

This was from my Phantom Menace Minimal Politics thread. First, did you explain them what happened, and I wonder how you did so?

Second, how is protecting your children from seeing Luke "ruined" different from protecting your children from seeing "the crap" of the Prequels? I'm assuming the Jar-Jar toilet humor or teen Anakin being creepy are in the "crap" category, in which case I agree with you.

Again I'm young and I don't have children so I probably don't understand, but I'm just curious :D
 

TV's Frink

You Catch On Pretty Quick
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
23,676
Reaction score
406
Trophy Points
193
Have not done so yet, although honestly there's more pressing life issues so I probably won't until it actually comes up organically.

And I'm not rolling my eyes at protecting kids from anything, I'm rolling my eyes at the claim that Luke was ruined.  Which as has been stated, is off-topic, so let's let that part go.
 

Masirimso17

Well-known member
Cover Artist
Messages
2,138
Reaction score
238
Trophy Points
93
TVs Frink said:
Have not done so yet, although honestly there's more pressing life issues so I probably won't until it actually comes up organically.

And I'm not rolling my eyes at protecting kids from anything, I'm rolling my eyes at the claim that Luke was ruined.  Which as has been stated, is off-topic, so let's let that part go.

Yeah agreed with the Luke part. That’s all I’ll say about that :)

Anyway, about introducing kids to Star Wars... if I had kids I’d probably observe when they’re ready according to how they respond to other movies and their possibly sensitive parts. Maybe if they really wanted to see some Star Wars and I felt they were not ready for the films, I’d show them the Clone Wars shows and Rebels, but of course I’d be extra careful about parts that spoil the movies, like the Mortis arc in TCW or later seasons of Rebels.

Once they are ready for the films, I’d probably go Machete Order using the Despecialized OT, not so drastic PT edits, and theatrical ST & Anthology films. Details below.

Star Wars: Despecialized
Empire: Despecialized
Menace: Either not at all, or a faster paced edit with Jar-Jar toilet humor also toned down
Clones: Edit with a more sympathetic Anakin, TPM flashbacks included if Menace was skipped
Sith: Theatrical
Return of the Jedi: Despecialized
Force Awakens: Theatrical
Last Jedi: Extended or edit with certain deleted scenes but Canto Bight plus original finale intact, okay if trimmed (I could do this)
IX: Depends
Rogue One: Theatrical
Solo: Depends
Obi-Wan: Depends

Personally I probably wouldn’t hide different versions of the films, official or fanedited, but I’d be the judge on which version is the one they’d see first.

It’d also be awesome if they were into retro games and loved the Knights of the Old Republic games, or alternatively I’d show them the KotOR fan films by Kevin Smets and DarthYcey on YouTube. They’re kind of like animated movies. Sort of.
 

Dr. Chim Richalds

Well-known member
Messages
108
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
23
Okay, so I'm reviving this thread cause I actually showed my daughter (now 6) Star Wars (77) - despecialized - last night. She definitely liked it and wants to watch more. I think she can handle most of them (ROTS and R1 are in question though)... My main question for parents out there: Did y'all do OT then PT, OT only, machete order, or something different and how did it work out with the kids?

I'm not a PT fan but I keep hearing kids like it. I don't feel I should show a fan edit of the PT first even though I'd prefer them (actually I'd prefer Frinks but maybe on a repeat viewing!). So do I grit my teeth and bear it for the sake of completion or skip it?
 

Jrzag42

Well-known member
Faneditor
Messages
3,998
Reaction score
1,018
Trophy Points
138
Definitely original trilogy first. I grew up with and love the prequels, but I still watched the OT first. Plus, if she already saw the first one, you might as well finish off the trilogy. Children also love the Ewoks, and I think the general consensus is that Jedi is better than the prequels, so it'd be easier for you and good for her. You finish off the Luke story before she forgets the events from the first one due to sidetracking from watching the prequels, and you learn more about Vader to entice the young one with his origins.
 

Dr. Chim Richalds

Well-known member
Messages
108
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
23
Okay so definitely going to go all in then and do prequels and all. Plan is to watch it all with a finale in December in the theater.

My other question though is that I have 0% experience with the animated series. No clone wars, no rebels. For those who have, how worthwhile are they? And do the original clone wars shorts (2003) overlap with the 2008 stories or are they separate things? Also is the clone wars movie the place to start? Oh, and should we watch them between AOTC and ROTS or after the whole PT?

Any input would be much appreciated! (And yeah, life is pretty cool when these are your concerns.)
 

Moe_Syzlak

Well-known member
Messages
3,452
Reaction score
1,162
Trophy Points
118
My kids (turning seven in September) were watching ESB for the first time today. At exactly the moment Luke loses his hand the doorbell rings. It’s one of their neighbor friends asking if they can go to his house to play. So they left. And still don’t know the twist. Ha!
 

Jrzag42

Well-known member
Faneditor
Messages
3,998
Reaction score
1,018
Trophy Points
138
The 2003 Clone Wars is non canon, but for all intents and purposes, it takes place before the 2008 series, I believe. Certain events are retconned in the latter series.
As far as the 2008 series, the movie comes first. It all takes place between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.
You might be best off watching the 2003 series and ignoring the 2008 series for the sake of saving time, there's a whole lot of episodes and only 5 or so months to watch them. The 2003 series in its entirety is around two hours, essentially its own movie. If you can get ahold of the Smudger movie edits of the Clone Wars series, maybe go that route. In the end though, you can watch all of the movies just fine without watching any of the shows.
Now, it's up to you if you want to watch either of the Clone Wars shows in between 2 and 3, or after, but I suggest watching them afterwards, if at all, for the sake of getting the prequel movies out of the way as soon as possible.

As for Rebels, I have no clue, I think you'd have to watch 2008 Clone Wars first for the sake of some plot lines referencing it. I have no idea if it's any good and worth watching though.

The only benefits I can think of to watching the shows, is that they give more to Anakin's character, and to show what happened to Darth Maul for the sake of Solo. I think I heard that one character from Rogue One is from Rebels, but I have no idea who or if it matters.
 

addiesin

Well-known member
Messages
5,889
Reaction score
1,502
Trophy Points
163
Dr. Chim Richalds said:
Okay so definitely going to go all in then and do prequels and all. Plan is to watch it all with a finale in December in the theater.

My other question though is that I have 0% experience with the animated series. No clone wars, no rebels. For those who have, how worthwhile are they? And do the original clone wars shorts (2003) overlap with the 2008 stories or are they separate things? Also is the clone wars movie the place to start? Oh, and should we watch them between AOTC and ROTS or after the whole PT?

Any input would be much appreciated! (And yeah, life is pretty cool when these are your concerns.)

Worth is hard to say. Some die hard fan love all of it, but if you don't have a need to "collect" everything with the Star Wars name on it your mileage may vary. I've seen all of both Clone Wars series, could only get through the first season of Rebels, and haven't watched any Resistance.

2d Clone Wars was originally made in like 2 to 3 minute mini episodes, which makes it feel really oddly paced if you try to watch them all at once, there's little dialogue and the force powers seem inflated from what we see in the films. I love the animation style though, same team as Samurai Jack. There are some retcons like Whag said but basically when Anakin has short hair/the first hour, it's before the 3d series, and when he has long hair/the second hour, it's after.

3d Clone Wars is decent but there's just too much IMO and very young kids might be bored by what is essentially a pretty serious take on silly space soldiers. The show is preceded by a terribly silly movie they actually released in theaters, which introduced, among other things, Jabba's son, who is carried around by other characters. Overall the show is better than the prequels but that's a low bar. Also you should know the story is not chronological, they have lots of 3 and 4 part stories but other than that it jumps around a lot. I watched in the release order, that's how Netflix had it, but people have compiled lists with the chronological order if you care to go through it that way.

Rebels started out very reminiscent of the original trilogy with an analogue of each main cast member, but that got less and less interesting to me over the course of the first season and I stopped. Kids will probably like it more.

Resistance has a really janky animation style IMO and I couldn't get through an episode so I gave up. I'm not much help on that one.

One thing I think all the animated series' does pretty well is fleshing out characters. Really whether it's worth it depends on how much you want to see. If you're in the fence about it, you're not missing anything mind-blowing by skipping it all.
 

Dr. Chim Richalds

Well-known member
Messages
108
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
23
Thanks for the info y'all!

Lots of good suggestions but the gist seems to be that the animated stuff helps add to some of the characters and storyline (especially of the PT) but isn't essential by any means and some (like the clone wars movie) aren't particularly great at all. Maybe we'll do those if there's time as a post script to all the films.

Moe - we're due up for ESB in the next week or so. If some kid comes ringing our doorbell, they're gonna have to wait. Did they ever see the end?
 

TV's Frink

You Catch On Pretty Quick
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
23,676
Reaction score
406
Trophy Points
193
I feel like I've answered this before (esp. since I live blogged them watching ROTS) but we showed them OT first.  Then we showed them @"L8wrtr" 's version of the PT.  We figured they'd see it eventually.
 

lapis molari

Better edits through feedback.
Staff member
Donor
Faneditor
Messages
1,779
Reaction score
1,271
Trophy Points
143
Since my earlier post on page 2, my kids have watched:
- OT, using Q2's ROTJ with both songs in Jabba's Palace, then
- HAL9000's Prequels, then
- Force Awakens, Solo, and ebumms' extended Last Jedi.

They've not yet seen R1. It's the only one where I feel squeamish about letting them watch it (now aged 5 and 8). Once they do it'll be TM2YC's edit.

Smudger's Clone Wars did help them understand Anakin's development from e2 to e3.

They watched Rebels, but that didn't seem to change their joy or understanding of the films.
 

Dr. Chim Richalds

Well-known member
Messages
108
Reaction score
1
Trophy Points
23
So did either of y'all's kids ever see the theatrical cuts of the PT and comment on the edit vs original cut?

I had convinced myself that theatrical cuts were the only way to go here (not wanting to "rob" her off anything) but for my sanity, maybe either of the edits y'all mentioned might be better.

The one edit I had considered was the extended TLJ because I like it a lot and it simply extends the story.
 
Top Bottom