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Politics

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Zamros

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Voting for the French Presidential elections ends at 20:00 CEST. Emmanuel Macron, the Liberal (En Marche) Candidate and the former Minister for the Economy has ran a Pro-Europe, Pro-Immigration campaign. As a self-described liberal, he supports the free market and hopes to transcend the left-right divide by being a centrist.

Marine Le Penn is proof that hate speech can't melt dank memes

xkJHNMo.gif


Don't be stupid France, you can see what stupid is doing to the US and UK :/

EDIT:

When somebody tells you Le Penn is going to win

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Rogue-theX

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Not sure it's that necessary to say it over here, but, everyone be nice to each other in this thread!
 

TM2YC

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Rogue-theX said:
everyone be nice to each other

Rogue-theX. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party? :D
 

Zamros

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Rogue-theX said:
everyone be nice to each other

RfbRM7c.gif


SMASH THE DIRTY SJW THAT WANTS US TO BE NICE REEEEEEE /s
 

Rogue-theX

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Not a Communist, not a SJW either. ♫DONT BOX ME IN!♫
Humor scanner operating at 74%. ;)
I just think the politics thread at OT is enough of a soap opera for one internet and wouldn't want that happening here, though I tend to doubt it actually would happen here but you never know.
 

TV's Frink

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It won't happen here...we have much quicker trigger fingers.
 

beezo

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Just curious, has anybody ever changed their minds on politics to a significant degree?  If so, what was the cause?
 

addiesin

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I just dislike the American two party system. In the extreme the two big sides are treated more like sports teams than political parties. 

This has a generally negative effect on the mainstream population in that it invokes prejudgements and prejudices toward people that wouldn't have been there otherwise, and it has a generally negative effect on progress, no matter what side you're on. Example: "Oh, you're a (conservative/liberal)."

As a result I find discussing politics displeasing in general, and only insightful on occasion. People have usually chosen their side before you meet them, and taking about issues becomes either talking to a brick wall or preaching to the choir.

Thus, I will respectfully take this opportunity to bow out of this thread probably for good.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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"Oh, king eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers. By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. Listening, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."
 

beezo

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Moe_Syzlak said:
"Oh, king eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers. By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. Listening, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."

I order you to be quiet.
 

matrixgrindhouse

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TM2YC said:
Rogue-theX said:
everyone be nice to each other

Rogue-theX. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party? :D

We need a hero to carry out this witch hunt - nay, a super hero!  Someone above corruption, with a sense of justice.  I appoint The Orange Ranger.  Surely he will be able to sniff out these Communist subversives!


20110411132805
 

Gaith

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addiesin said:
I just dislike the American two party system.

I honestly love the two-party system, which is essentially (IMO) an unofficial multi-party system, with intraparty rivalries in primaries, and general elections serving as runoffs. The Supreme Court's absurd "corporate money is free speech" dogma, the Electoral College, and the Senate, however... those are my dislikes. The majority of Americans live in the nine most populous states, which are of course represented by less than a fifth of the Senate, which strikes me as mind-bogglingly back-asswards.

... And the British/parliamentary system in which chief executives can be swapped out and replaced pretty much anytime and for a wide variety of reasons is certainly looking mighty attractive about now, isn't it? :mad:
 

Zamros

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Gaith said:
addiesin said:
I just dislike the American two party system.

I honestly love the two-party system, which is essentially (IMO) an unofficial multi-party system, with intraparty rivalries in primaries, and general elections serving as runoffs. The Supreme Court's absurd "corporate money is free speech" dogma, the Electoral College, and the Senate, however... those are my dislikes. The majority of Americans live in the nine most populous states, which are of course represented by less than a fifth of the Senate, which strikes me as mind-bogglingly back-asswards.

... And the British/parliamentary system in which chief executives can be swapped out and replaced pretty much anytime and for a wide variety of reasons is certainly looking mighty attractive about now, isn't it? :mad:

See this is why I dislike the two-party system. It results in the same thing everywhere it's used, where the big two are just loose coalitions with vague political motives usually shaped by whomever their leader happens to be. This creates a great deal of confusion any time a leader with opinions different from the party center is elected (A la Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn).

Or even worse, you get a leader of one party that is so unpopular it guarantees the victory of the other (A la Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn).

Under proportional representation these big tent parties would break up into ones with clearly defined stances, and give people an actual voice instead of a binary choice between crap and less-smelly crap.

But the Parliamentary system is still serving us better than the American way of doing things. The Nordic and Kiwi Parliamentary Systems are the ideal, but the unicameral nature of them may put off many as the House of Lords is a key historic part of our Parliament. Any new system would have to retain the upper house in some form. I'd like to see what the Irish, Canadians and Australians do with a Senate as the upper house.

1200px-Electoral_systems_map.svg.png


The map of states that retain First Past the Post isn't exactly encouraging, it allows you to see the stain of the British Empire remaining on the world. In our case, I'd ideally like to see Single Transferable Vote like in Ireland, however I'd be happy to compromise on Mixed-Member proportional representation like in New Zealand which combines Party list PR with FPTP.


The Liberal Democrats almost changed the system to Instant Run-off voting, like in Australia, but while a better system it wasn't PR, hence why it failed. But now the Conservatives are using it as an excuse saying "See, we tried PR and it didn't work". FPTP with a Tory government is akin to having a democratically elected one party state.
 

Gaith

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Zamros said:
See this is why I dislike the two-party system. It results in the same thing everywhere it's used, where the big two are just loose coalitions with vague political motives usually shaped by whomever their leader happens to be. This creates a great deal of confusion any time a leader with opinions different from the party center is elected (A la Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn).

Eh? You Brits don't have a two-party system, you have a three-party one, what with the Lib Dems. In 2010, the won almost a quarter of the national vote, and in 2015, they and the SNP got 13% - whereas we Yanks haven't had a third party crack 10% nationally since Perot in '92. Had you not split your leftist vote 29/23% in 2010, and not had that nonsensical Lib Dems/Conservative Party coalition, the past few years might have gone very differently.

(Full disclosure: I know very little about UK politics. :p)
 

Zamros

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Gaith said:
Zamros said:
See this is why I dislike the two-party system. It results in the same thing everywhere it's used, where the big two are just loose coalitions with vague political motives usually shaped by whomever their leader happens to be. This creates a great deal of confusion any time a leader with opinions different from the party center is elected (A la Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn).

Eh? You Brits don't have a two-party system, you have a three-party one, what with the Lib Dems. In 2010, the won almost a quarter of the national vote, and in 2015, they and the SNP got 13% - whereas we Yanks haven't had a third party crack 10% nationally since Perot in '92. Had you not split your leftist vote 29/23% in 2010, and not had that nonsensical Lib Dems/Conservative Party coalition, the past few years might have gone very differently.

(Full disclosure: I know very little about UK politics. :p)

CGP Grey did a good video on why the UK's Electoral system is terrible:


In England, it's essentially a two party system in most except a couple seats, between Labour and Conservatives. In Scotland, it's usually between SNP and everyone else.

25% of the electorate's votes were essentially meaningless underneath our system. While it may not look like a two party system, it is far from proportional.
 

dangermouse

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Churchill said it best "democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the other forms we've tried".
The problem is that people suck, and when you give them power, they suck even more.... so our government is built on the principle of distributed power. Great, no oppression. Bad, no-one gets things done. And, unintended consequence, the most powerful people are the bureaucrats (see "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister". :) )
And don't look to us in Norway. All that happens is the tiny parties have the swing vote and then call the shots over the big parties who everyone actually voted for. Gaah!
 

Gaith

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Zamros said:
CGP Grey did a good video on why the UK's Electoral system is terrible:  [snip]

In England, it's essentially a two party system in most except a couple seats, between Labour and Conservatives.

That may be true, but it's not what your linked video says. It says "most [parliamentary districts] look like The Wrekin", with this graphic:

Untitled.png


That's a three-party district, with change. And while the US no doubt has a few Congressional districts that look like that, the vast majority are indeed essentially two-party districts.


dangermouse said:
And don't look to us in Norway. All that happens is the tiny parties have the swing vote and then call the shots over the big parties who everyone actually voted for. Gaah!

Yeah, that really doesn't sound like an improvement. I'll keep my 'Murican! two-party system, thanks.  :D
 

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The next person to say "watch this video" to make their point gets a permanent ban.

I'm kidding.

Mostly.
 

Moe_Syzlak

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dangermouse said:
Churchill said it best "democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the other forms we've tried".
The problem is that people suck, and when you give them power, they suck even more.... so our government is built on the principle of distributed power. Great, no oppression. Bad, no-one gets things done. And, unintended consequence, the most powerful people are the bureaucrats (see "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister". :) )
And don't look to us in Norway. All that happens is the tiny parties have the swing vote and then call the shots over the big parties who everyone actually voted for. Gaah!
Churchill also said, "the best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
 
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