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X-Men: Dark Phoenix

baileym43

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Zarius said:
Pray for S'hiar and Starjammer inclusion
:angel:

Starjammers could be Fox's answer to the Galaxy Guardians.
though if they handle that story anything like they did AoA . . . it will be a whole lot of nothing happening.
 

addiesin

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baileym43 said:
Zarius said:
Pray for S'hiar and Starjammer inclusion
:angel:

Starjammers could be Fox's answer to the Galaxy Guardians.
though if they handle that story anything like they did AoA . . . it will be a whole lot of nothing happening.

AoA? 

I think doing another Phoenix movie is a bad idea. But we'll see.
 

Gaith

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^ Age of Adaline. ;)

I think Apocalypse's biggest problem was... well, actually, throwing the X-Men's greatest enemy at the group when there wasn't even an established team, let alone an experienced team, to confront him. But the second-biggest problem was it was split between being a First Class movie, a Second Class movie, and an Apocalypse movie. I'm still totally up for a Second Class movie, and so long as the Phoenix doesn't play second fiddle to another villain, even Magneto, I'm not too concerned about reliving the terrors of The Last Stand. And I assume this means we'll be getting two McAvoy Professor X appearances next year, and that's gotta count for something, right?!
 

wilhelm scream

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I hope Dark Pheonix is better than Apocalypse. Apocalypse was dissapointing.
 

Masirimso17

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I liked Apocalypse. It was flawed, but it was still good. It had good characters, a classic (maybe a bit cliché) good vs. evil story, an intimidating villain... Yeah maybe it got repetitive in certain ways (considering past X-Men films) but it succeeded in what it was trying to do.

Hmm... No Bryan Singer... Simon Kinberg wrote the screenplay... Dark Phoenix... This all sounds so familiar somehow...

X_Men_La_decisi_n_final-356193180-large.jpg


Oh no...

All jokes aside, it really comes down to who's directing it. Since Bryan Singer won't be directing this, a good director with a good vision has to be brought in. I really don't think Simon Kinberg should direct this, since this would be his debut film, and I think it would be too risky for a huge film like this. I vote for Matthew Vaughn to return to the X-Men franchise, who is arguably a better director than Simon Kinberg, Brett Ratner and probably even Bryan Singer.

#VaughnForDarkPhoenix?
 

Gaith

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Masirimso17 said:
All jokes aside, it really comes down to who's directing it. Since Bryan Singer won't be directing this, a good director with a good vision has to be brought in.

Eh, I think in most cases, the screenwriter is more important than the director. If you gave Aaron Sorkin's Social Network script to a competent shooter like Brett Ratner, he probably would've made a good movie, albeit not as good as the one we got. (I think Ratner's Red Dragon is pretty darn good, and it's almost certainly the best script he's directed.) But if David Fincher had been forced to make the Last Stand shooting script, it would almost certainly still have been a bad movie. Of course, depending on when a director comes on, the structure and shape of the screenplay can be due in large part to their control, so it's not black-and-white, but I think the cinematic cult of the director is in many (though not all) cases overblown.

It's easy to blame Kinberg for The Last Stand, and say that he should have dropped the Phoenix storyline when Fox demanded the "Gifted" story feature also, and maybe he should have. But maybe he honestly tried and couldn't find a way to make the Gifted story be sufficiently compelling on its own. (After Xavier almost killed all humanity in X2, after all, it's hard to argue that humans shouldn't have some protection from mutantkind.) And maybe he is a straight-up bad writer; I don't know. But I do know The Last Stand was 11 years ago, and that he's worked a lot since then, so maybe he's improved...
 

baileym43

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Gaith said:
^ Age of Adaline. ;)

I think Apocalypse's biggest problem was... well, actually, throwing the X-Men's greatest enemy at the group when there wasn't even an established team, let alone an experienced team, to confront him.

or as RedLetterMedia put it, Week of Apocalypse.
the biggest problem was it not being a trilogy, or at least a two-parter.
this shows that the writers and suits don't pay attention to the source material.

part 1 would include a nice origin fly-through of Apoco, kinda like what we got, that was pretty good.  then spend the movie with him putting together his horsemen, some low-level mutants he uses.  the fledgling x-men confront them and succeed, but wait, oh no! he had a second more powerful Four Horsemen the whole time, which included the characters we saw in the movie.  so Apoco wins.

part 2 the team regroups but now they're struggling with confidence issues, Jean especially.  Xavier reaches out to a certain group he knows about in Canada for help (a nice insert for Alpha Flight, whom may or may not, depending on Hugh Jackman's willingness, have found a wildman in the Canadian wilderness).  they find out Apoco is destroying Egypt and northern Africa (because if you want collateral damage, go to Africa), they go and Avengers style save whatever city is being destroyed.  this helps Jean unleash the Pheonix force and defeats Apoco much like we got in X2 but Apoco delivers a warning that they unleashed a far greater power than him.  or instead of Apoco saying this, Llandra beams to Earth and chews them out for releasing the Pheonix Force . . . enter the Shi'ar Empire.

part 3 the team now has to deal with intergalactic matters, which puts their small earth problems into perspective for them.  along the way they meet a rag-tag group of mercs called the Starjammers (the Fox answer to the GotG headed by a human man with a strange connection to Scott, whom is proving to be a talanted leader*).  they deal with the Shi'ar empire wanting to kill Jean to destroy the Pheonix force, while the team doesn't want that to happen, yadda yadda, the rest writes itself.

i think the real problem though is Deadpool.  as that caused EVERYONE to go back to the drawing board.





*he's scott's father, for those unfamiliar with the comics.
 

addiesin

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So you're talking about X-Men: Apocalypse. That could have been made less confusing, since AoA is not part of the film's name.
 

Masirimso17

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Gaith said:
Eh, I think in most cases, the screenwriter is more important than the director. If you gave Aaron Sorkin's Social Network script to a competent shooter like Brett Ratner, he probably would've made a good movie, albeit not as good as the one we got. (I think Ratner's Red Dragon is pretty darn good, and it's almost certainly the best script he's directed.) But if David Fincher had been forced to make the Last Stand shooting script, it would almost certainly still have been a bad movie. Of course, depending on when a director comes on, the structure and shape of the screenplay can be due in large part to their control, so it's not black-and-white, but I think the cinematic cult of the director is in many (though not all) cases overblown. 

It's easy to blame Kinberg for The Last Stand, and say that he should have dropped the Phoenix storyline when Fox demanded the "Gifted" story feature also, and maybe he should have. But maybe he honestly tried and couldn't find a way to make the Gifted story be sufficiently compelling on its own. (After Xavier almost killed all humanity in X2, after all, it's hard to argue that humans shouldn't have some protection from mutantkind.) And maybe he is a straight-up bad writer; I don't know. But I do know The Last Stand was 11 years ago, and that he's worked a lot since then, so maybe he's improved...

That is definitely true. The jobs of the screenwriter and the director are equally important to me, a director can make a movie his own and I was just saying that since Kinberg is pretty hit-and-miss, a good director would guide the writer and all together with the co-writers, they would perfect it. But yes, you put it perfectly how the director wouldn't be able to do much if he was just brought in to direct the final shooting script. 

I forgot that "Gifted" was forced into The Last Stand. You're definitely right, time has passed, Kinberg has probably improved and he has more free reign now that nothing is being forced to him (that we're aware of at least). It still would be risky for Kinberg himself to direct it though, I would prefer an experienced director for this movie rather than a directorial debut for Kinberg.

I'm still for #VaughnForDarkPhoenix

I'm not very familiar with the X-Men comics but I heard their importance in the Phoenix Saga, and I played Marvel Ultimate Alliance, so I find the Shi'ar Empire very intruiging. I too hope we get to see them in X-Men: Dark Phoenix. Unless it becomes too rushed? I don't know the whole story.
 

Gaith

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addiesin said:
So you're talking about X-Men: Apocalypse. That could have been made less confusing, since AoA is not part of the film's name.

I actually forgot, when I made the Adaline joke, that the movie's title wasn't "Age of Apocalypse", after the story arc. My bad. :p
 

baileym43

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addiesin said:
So you're talking about X-Men: Apocalypse. That could have been made less confusing, since AoA is not part of the film's name.
Gaith said:
addiesin said:
So you're talking about X-Men: Apocalypse. That could have been made less confusing, since AoA is not part of the film's name.
I actually forgot, when I made the Adaline joke, that the movie's title wasn't "Age of Apocalypse", after the story arc. My bad. :p
HA!  i forgot it was only called Age of Apocalypse too.  im just used to the comic story line.   whoops.

but anyway, Dark Phoenix.  Starjammers, Shi'ar, yeah all that.
 

Nic

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I'm also hoping Matthew Vaughn comes back to direct this film, since it was First Class that made me realize "hey, maybe *none* of the X-Men films were particularly grandstanding," a thought that was confirmed when Signer came back for the two sequels and didn't find them nearly as good. The only hiccup I see is if they studios instead put him on the upcoming Nemesis movie (short version: Nemesis is "Kick-Ass, but with a villain), which wouldn't be so bad. ;)
 

henzINNIT

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No faith in this with Kinberg behind it. Rumours are persisting that he may direct as well. Not excited about Sophie Turner as the central character either. She bored me in Apocalypse.

It may give me some extra fodder for my ongoing X3 fanedit though so I'm curious.
 

Gaith

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Where is the X-Love? On Valentine's Day, apparently: Dark Phoenix pushed to 2/14/19. I'm actually cautiously optimistic about this flick, so I hope the modest delay pays off in terms of quality.
 

hbenthow

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Duragizer said:

Yeah, it's not very exciting. It doesn't look blatantly bad, but there's nothing impressive about it either. I get a lot of "X-Men 3" deja vu while watching it. Both are obviously based on the Dark Phoenix storyline, but this looks like it might be almost a direct remake (minus the cure storyline) rather than a different adaptation of the comics. Since Simon Kinberg (who wrote "X-Men 3") is the director, he might be treating this movie as a second chance to do the same thing over again, but right this time. I don't know if he'll succeed, though. As this is the last Fox X-Men movie, it will be a shame if it's bad and ends the franchise on a sour note.
 

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My hope is still up, but the trailers is not as good as the first one was. 
The dialogue doesn’t convince me.  Visually, the movie  looks great, and if most of the cast returned because they liked the script, we may be in for a treat. 
Yet again, Kinberg’s first direction may be a hit and miss effort. Wish the movie the best.
 
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