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Star Wars VIII - The Last Jedi
(04-11-2019, 01:06 AM)Gaith Wrote:
(04-10-2019, 01:50 AM)theforce Wrote: Hackfraud Media’s “Fake Mr. Plinkettl review of The Last Jedi.

Hilarious review which The real mr plinkett from Red Letter Media should have done. 

Star Wars The Last Straw Part 1

Star Wars The Last Straw Part 2

Because this kind of sh*t is catnip to me, I watched just over an hour of the first part. It's pretty mediocre. There are some good insights, but only a few, and not nearly enough to justify the runtime. For TLJ criticism, I think I'll stick with RLM's splendid Half in the Bag review, and the "Unbridled Rage" review.

Actually, part 2 is way better and more insightful...I found RLM prequel bashing far more insulting and degrading.....to each their own
Never let anybody impose limits on your creativity, because they are the true fools - May the Force be with You
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I had some ramblings about Wisecrack's video about "What Went Wrong With The Last Jedi". Obviously I disagreed. But this is a complicated issue about a great complicated movie that makes you think like this. But my opinion might slightly change later. I put it in spoiler tags simply because it is long.


You missed something very important about the finale: Kylo Ren at the end does not become the Johnson/Jung balance he seems to offer to Rey. He seems to believe that by tearing down everything from his past he will achieve this perfect balance. But perfect balance in Star Wars is extremely difficult, and Ren definitely does not reach that balance. In fact, he lets the darkness completely consume him, whether he realizes it or not.

In Star Wars, the Dark Side is the corruption of the Force. However, the history of the galaxy far far away shows that this corruption is less of a spectrum and far more of a circle. As seen in the Prequels, extreme light where the dark is surpressed like in Jung's model leads to arrogance. Extreme light, in this way, corrupts itself through the arrogance of the Jedi. All this brings everything back to Darkness, hidden beneath the light. Therefore, prophecy of the Chosen One is definitely true, in that before Anakin, the Force is unbalanced. Not in a sense that the light has surpressed the darkness, but the darkness has creeped in. The shroud of the dark side, as Yoda puts it. The state of the Jedi Order in the Prequels is what led to Palpatine's arrival, and destruction of the Republic and the Jedi Order. Anakin, following the prophecy, must reset everything by destroying the arrogant Jedi, then destroying the completely evil Sith. This happens through all 6 initial Star Wars films.

Following this, what needed to be done was for Luke to bring a synthesis. And that is what was implied at the end of Return of the Jedi: Luke's darkness within does not define him. He is still a Jedi. It was implied that Luke accepted the darkness within him but did not allow himself to completely turn. What The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi implied, however, was that when the light returned, everything returned back to how things were in the Prequels: Suppression of the darkness. That is what happened to Luke: Though he seemed to accept his darkness, he merely surpressed it. He thought the Jedi of the past, romanticized by many, held the truth about how to truly rid one's self of darkness. His new order followed the same flawed principles of the Jedi of the past: Suppression instead of learning how to control it. That is exactly why his darkness crept back to haunt him and ruined everything when he sensed the darkness within Ren. He doesn't know how to control it, he only suppresses it, but obviously, not enough. It backfires, and in turn, the suppressed darkness returns once again, and we're back to how things were in the original trilogy.

BUT, this all does not mean that the past is completely worthless. That threshold of darkness is where Luke was almost about to fall, and Kylo most certainly fell into. Back to arrogance, back to thinking all the answers are within yourself. Kylo Ren represents the rejection of everything, yet falling into the same trap of the system. DJ realizes this, he's inevitably part of the system, belongs to no one and everyone, and he is content with using this to his advantage as much as possible. In fact, this is his own twisted way of balance. Kylo Ren doesn't realize this. He thinks he has reached true balance and yet he has fallen into darkness.

So what does Rey represent? Rey always believed that the Jedi were good. When Luke said otherwise, Rey still didn't give up hope. Rey represents the exact synthesis that the past suppression always couldn't reach. So when Kylo offers freedom from the past shackles, the system, Rey knows this is a trap. She knows that true freedom comes when bringing a synthesis of the strengths of the past and strengths of the future: Accepting the darkness, learning to conform it, and using it for the best.

Here's the video I disagreed with:



In fact the video made me love the movie even more.
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My kids (seven years old) have decided they want to see Episode 9 in the theatre. My only requirement for them was that they watch episodes 7 and 8 so I wouldn’t be answering questions all through the movie. So tonight was Last Jedi time.

I played them my own edit. Now, if you know me you know I’m not an editor. I took a few edits and stitched them together and then made a few slight trims of my own. Some of the edits I used never got Academy approval here. But basically this was an edit that focuses almost exclusively on the Rey/Ben/Luke/Snoke storylines. Gone are the slow speed chase, the Leia spacewalk, the Canto Bight subplot, and a lot of humor I felt didn’t work.

First, my kids loved it. And, to be honest, so did I. I had watched any version in well over a year and I really enjoyed it, partly because my kids were so into it. They were cheering, cuddling up to me when scared, and yelling at the screen. It was great. My wife, who is not a Star Wars fan and who has only seen the movie in the theater with me, said, “that was much better than I remembered.”

Now, the seven year olds didn’t notice any problems, but I did. With the B plot all but eliminated, Finn, Poe, and Leia don’t do much and Rose and Holdo are unnamed supporting characters. That’s fine for Rose except she’ll undoubtedly have a large role in the next movie. For Holdo, since she pilots the light speed assault it kind of comes of out of nowhere. Since we don’t see the bridge assault that sends Leia on her spacewalk, we also don’t see Ackbar’s fate. If someone could create a plausible version of Ackbar subbing for Holdo, I think it could really work. To be clear, I don’t hate Holdo but I don’t think the B storyline is necessary nor very well executed. So that character would just be a casualty of tightening up the film.

Overall, I think the movie’s themes and ideas are excellent. Luke is brave and strong by doing what he couldn’t in Empire. He knows that the Jedi must die and that dogma is not what the Force is about. I hope the new movie doesn’t try to unwrite that.
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(11-24-2019, 01:35 PM)Moe_Syzlak Wrote: Luke is brave and strong by doing what he couldn’t in Empire. He knows that the Jedi must die and that dogma is not what the Force is about. I hope the new movie doesn’t try to unwrite that.

Er, he literally says with righteous confidence that he will not be the last Jedi by the end.
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(11-24-2019, 02:35 PM)Gaith Wrote:
(11-24-2019, 01:35 PM)Moe_Syzlak Wrote: Luke is brave and strong by doing what he couldn’t in Empire. He knows that the Jedi must die and that dogma is not what the Force is about. I hope the new movie doesn’t try to unwrite that.

Er, he literally says with righteous confidence that he will not be the last Jedi by the end.

Yeah I get that. I actually hope the title “Rise of Skywalker” is a rebranding, if you will, of those that are Force sensitive, thereby symbolically eschewing the dogma of the Jedi. But there’s no doubt in my mind that the intent was to have Luke (and Yoda) acknowledge that the dogma of the Jedi needed to end. Whether or not you call those non-Dark side force sensitive people Jedis or not is not the point.

Do you know anyone that says they are spiritual but not religious? ‘Cause I certainly do.

Anyway, the point is that I didn’t like the TLJ, though I didn’t hate it as much as many fans did. Getting an edit that eliminated a lot of my issues with the theatrical version and then having a good deal of time away from the movie left me with a viewing that really helped to clarify that intent of the movie. This is reinforced by the TLJ extra called “Balance of the Force.” I’m left with little doubt that the story Johnson was gong for is something I can totally endorse. The execution, however, was not up to snuff. I feel much the same way with the prequels.
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(11-24-2019, 02:49 PM)Moe_Syzlak Wrote: there’s no doubt in my mind that the intent was to have Luke (and Yoda) acknowledge that the dogma of the Jedi needed to end.

Sure, but the problem is we never saw to what extent Luke tried to incorporate PT-era dogma into his temple, if at all. And surely not all dogma - such as the general frowning upon mass murder on a planetary scale - is worth discarding? Or are we to assume that Luke drove Kylo to the Dark Side by imposing a vow of celibacy on him? Tongue
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(11-24-2019, 03:21 PM)Gaith Wrote:
(11-24-2019, 02:49 PM)Moe_Syzlak Wrote: there’s no doubt in my mind that the intent was to have Luke (and Yoda) acknowledge that the dogma of the Jedi needed to end.

Sure, but the problem is we never saw to what extent Luke tried to incorporate PT-era dogma into his temple, if at all. And surely not all dogma - such as the general frowning upon mass murder on a planetary scale - is worth discarding? Or are we to assume that Luke drove Kylo to the Dark Side by imposing a vow of celibacy on him? Tongue
Fine point. I’m not inclined to have to have every single thing shown. And a troubled boy with baggage who reads too deeply into dogma is not unprecedented in history. It doesn’t need to be Jedi dogma exclusively that corrupts Ben. I prefer my Star Wars to be broad stroke myth rather than over-explained EU nonsense.

And is opposition to genocide generally considered dogma?! Does one have to be an adherent to a religious dogma to find that abhorrent?
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^ Eh, don't mind moi, I'm just being a smartass. Wink
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