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POTC: Heart Of The Maelstrom

DSM2337

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Hi all,

I've been working on a combined cut of Dead Man's Chest and At World's End for a few months now, and I'm happy to show what I've been up to.

Trailer (note the music cuts in loud a few seconds in, so be careful with the volume):
Password: fanedit

I reached a lot of the same conclusions as TM2YC's edits, but I've noted any specific cuts borrowed (stolen?) from him (thanks TM2YC).

Here is the cut list.
- Some trims to the arrest of Elizabeth and Will.- Sparrow escaping the prison is removed.
- Will's acquaintance comment is removed (thanks TM2YC).
- Sparrow and Bootstrap scene is removed, hence all black spot references are removed.
- Sparrow's panic, loss of hat, and subsequent first Kraken attack removed.
- So now we follow Will as he goes in search of Sparrow, Sparrow is first seen on the island of the cannibals.
- Elizabeth's escape moved to after all island scenes.
- Pintel/Ragetti introduction trimmed, the dog is removed.
- Sparrow's first escape removed.
- First part of cage roll is removed.
- Sparrow's fruit skewer/fall scenes are removed.
- Footage from Sparrow's first escape reused for real escape.
- All shots of the dog are removed as are some more of Pintel/Ragetti.
- Talk of going up river removed.
- Shot of Black Pearl repurposed here.
- Sparrow's flowery dialogue cut out when introducing Will to the idea of the key and Davey Jones.
- Elizabeth's escape moved to here.
- Scene of Will and Gibbs talking about the Kraken kept, although trimmed in a few places, and the boat ride isn't going anywhere specific.
- Tia Dalma scene is removed from here, reused later.
- Sweeping shot of The Edinburgh Trader leaving port removed. (This is the ship Elizabeth stows away on).
- No Tia Dalma, so Sparrow takes Will directly to the derelict ship, having told him that was the Flying Dutchman.
- Short trim to remove black spot reference when Davey Jones grabs Sparrow's hand.
- Norrington's introduction trimmed for the essentials.
- Sparrow and Gibbs leaving during the fight is removed after Sparrow says, let's go.
- Fight trimmed to remove harsh cuts (now Gibbs and Sparrow leaving isn't there).
- Mercer removed from Tortuga. (thanks TM2CY).
- Bootstrap removed initially when 'MISTER TURNER' is called for, we find out who he is when Will does. (thanks TM2CY).
- Bootstrap no longer reacts horrified by the idea of lashing his son, only to do it anyway.
- Will's talk about the key and the chest trimmed to keep it simple. 'So the Captain has the key.'
- Beckett's attempt to get Swann onside trimmed once the cuffs are off.
- Dice game removed.
- Sparrow and Elizabeth talks and flirting on the Pearl have been trimmed, but not removed completely.
- Once he has the key, Will no longer leaves the Dutchman. He's clever enough to know Jones will take them all directly to the chest, which is where Sparrow will be waiting for the key. So his conversation with Bootstrap no longer refers to making land.
- Jones still assumes Will escaped and has been picked up by The Edinburgh Trader. Some extended footage added as Jones teases Bootstrap, Will pops his head up from hiding to show he's still on the Dutchman.
- Kraken attack happens, minus Will, and removed some bad effects.
- Jones speech about Sparrow's plan cut, he orders to go straight to Isla Cruza, just as Will predicted.
- Rowboat to Isla Cruza removed.
- Elizabeth and the compass trimmed.
- Elizabeth ranting at the men fighting is shortened, primarily by removing Ragetti explaining the plot to us.
- Fight trimmed to remove bad dialogue.
- Fight no longer stops for them all to re-establish their hatred of each other. Sparrow doesn't fall off mill, into a grave, to be picked up by the wheel.
- Narrative now has Sparrow leaving Norrington and Will to fight, they continue the fight onto the wheel, it breaks free, the key is dropped by one of them into the wheel, the next we see them they are still fighting on top of the wheel with Sparrow chasing the wheel.
- Conch guy trimmed out as much as possible.
- The Pearl's escape from the Dutchman trimmed slightly.
- Sparrow no longer leaves the Pearl.
- No lack of gunpowder, use the rum, distractions. It's a cargo net of gunpowder now.
- Elizabeth doesn't cling to Sparrow's leg as he fires.
- Kraken now seen retreating from the Pearl, they defeated it. (Repurposed footage from lost Kraken attack at the beginning).
- Fade to black. Elizabeth no longer betrays Sparrow, Will no longer sees her kiss him, Sparrow no longer goes down with the Pearl.
- Fade up to song of the brethren. The boy singing at the gallows, intercut with Norrington delivering the heart to Beckett, Jones showing fealty to Beckett (deleted scene), the Dutchman attacking other ships.
- Sparrow, Elizabeth and Will, with the rest of the crew, now go and visit Tia Dalma. The initial scene is the baseline of this, with the odd shot of Elizabeth from the second visit. History of Davey Jones and the key dropped, instead dialogue from the locker is used to establish the new threat. 'Beckett has the heart, controls the Dutchman', 'the song has been sung', 'we need to find the brethren court'. And then 'you need a captain who knows those waters' and in steps Barbossa.
- This means we have no Singapore, and no visit to Davey Jones Locker, and continue in the stateroom of Beckett on the Endeavour. Some small cuts to remove reference to Elizabeth in Singapore.
- Two scenes are kept from the Locker, but are now in the real world.
- Sparrow and Barbossa arguing about who is the captain, Pintel's claim and the telescope gag removed.
- Sea of the dead also kept, where Elizabeth sees her father. She doesn't need to be explicitly told he is dead.
- Return from Locker cut, obviously, along with the mexican standoff.
- Search for water on land using the chart trimmed, second telescope gag cut.
- Dead Kraken cut.
- Betrayal at spring trimmed.
- Will no longer betrayed them, it was all Sao Feng.
- Alternate scene of Sparrow and Beckett on the Endevour, referring to their shared past used. Other parts trimmed, referring to debts settled by death.
- Will losing the Pearl cut.
- Sao Feng losing the Pearl trimmed.
- Will and Elizabeth arguing about going with Sao Feng trimmed to remove reference to Will's betrayal.
- Will being sent to the brig removed.
- Sao Feng assaulting Elizabeth removed.
- Sparrow catching Will dropping bodies has been trimmed to remove reference to Will being in the brig and Elizabeth being a murderess.
- Elizabeth's talk with Bootstrap trimmed.
- Elizabeth's escape from Dutchman trimmed so Norrington's sacrifice makes more sense. (thanks TM2YC).
- Jones reaction to Sparrow's 'regards' trimmed as he no longer has returned from the dead.
- Arrival to the Brethren Court altered. Jokes about names removed, Tia Dalma/Barbossa talk has trims to remove references to Sparrow coming back from the dead.
- Deleted scene entering the Devil's Throat added, but only to the point of entry. No dialogue kept.
- Brethren Court meeting trimmed. Removal of Keith Richards primarily, but also some smaller trims for some of the sillier moments.
- Meeting between Jones and Tia Dalma removed. (thanks TM2CY).
- Parlay meeting trimmed to remove talk of Sparrow coming back from the Locker. Also extended scene included where Sparrow questions his claiming of the prize.
- Barbossa's challenge to Sparrow trimmed.
- Elizabeth and Beckett's parting words trimmed to finish a bit earlier.
- Calypso's release trimmed.
- Elizabeth's speech trimmed. Other pirates' reactions shortened.
- Sparrow in the brig is moved and trimmed, only two figments of his imagination remain.
- Sparrow's escape from brig trimmed.
- Sparrow fetching his gear and the chest cut.
- The 'wedding' has been trimmed to remove all references to a wedding, now it is a declaration of love, and a violent ballet as they try and steal a kiss in the madness.
- Sparrow swinging around the mast is trimmed.
- Will arriving on the Dutchman is trimmed.
- Monkey Jack removed.
- Sparrow and Jones playing 'chase me' is cut.
- Elizabeth shouting 'Fire' is cut.
- Beckett's walk through the explosions cut.
- Celebrations trimmed.
- Will and Bootstrap conversation trimmed.
- Elizabeth saying goodbye to the Pearl cut.
- Close up of Elizabeth on shoreline trimmed.
- Sparrow and Gibbs discovering the Pearl is gone, cut.
- Barbossa on the Pearl started later.
- End credits scene of Elizabeth ten years later moved to mid-credits scene.
Visual edit and colour grading completed (I may post a clip of the latter to get feedback), and I'm now starting the audio mix, so expect to take another month or two.

Here's hoping it finds an audience. :oops:
 
3 Hours? Wow sounds bold. I've given a lot of thought to the problems involved with creating a cut like this so I can't wait to see how you solved them. I can hear the music in my ears already... :)

 
Color me interested, I'd be happy to view the release candidate and give some feedback.
 
Thanks for the interest everyone, glad the trailer went down well.

In regards to getting it below three hours:
Once you remove Jack and the Pearl being taken by the Kraken, you get rid of the need for Singapore and Davey Jones Locker. So effectively you cut almost an hour from the beginning of At World's End, the rest of the cuts aren't far off what you did (TM2YC).

The only tough part is the introduction of Barbossa. So that has involved some trickery and repurposing of dialogue from elsewhere. It's been a tough scene to crack, I'm not entirely happy, but it's okay and I think I've got it as good as I can visually with a temp track. I hope some clever sound mixing will sprinkle some magic over the final product.
 
DSM2337 said:
The only tough part is the introduction of Barbossa... I'm not entirely happy, but it's okay and I think I've got it as good as I can visually with a temp track

Could you upload a rough sample clip?
 
I was thinking on doing a Pirates Hybrid some months ago, but I was not as interested on doing it. I have an idea for Barbossa, but this sticks more to my vision of my (cancelled) hybrid: You can Introduce Barbossa in At World's End, not Dead Man's Chest. After Tia Dalma says that if they want to go to the end of the earth, they need a Captain who knows those waters, you cut to Singapore, Elizabeth in boat and talking to Tai Huang and THEN Barbossa appears, where he says "What makes you think she's alone?". This first appereance can help you because the music is very dramatic and fits to the context of "who is the captain who will help them to get Jack?".

Anyways, this is a project I've decided to not do especially because I like A LOT Pirates of the Caribbean Trilogy. I believe they show a very complex adventure movie, with some awesome and epic moments, and as a Fan, I would not cut anything from it or at least it would be painful to me to cut anything of these movies. Call me a Fan boy but yeah, I like them xD.

However, I'm aware of the problems in Dead Man's Chest. It drags on too much and I believe it's story could have been showed in a shorter length, not almost 3 fucking hours xD. This happens because of two things: 1) The Pelegostos Island scene. This part of the movie is actually very fun to see. It has suspense, it has laughs, it is exciting and has great music. It's Genius. In fact, I believe Pirates 4 should have been like this, I could watch a 2 hours film about the Pelegostos Island without problems. But in the same way, it affects the movie drastically, because if you think about it, this part of the movie is filler, and this causes to start the REAL adventure after 1 hour. That is not right. 2) Isla Cruces fight for the Chest suffers the same problem as The Pelegostos Island. It's exciting and nice to see, but it drags on unnecesarily, making the movie and the scene longer of what it should be.

I Have three proposes on these scenes based on my vision of my (cancelled) Hybrid:

1) Pelegostos Island: You could cut ALL this segment. You can make something like Pintel and Raggeti arriving first to the Island and trying to steal the Black Pearl. After this, Will arrives to the Island precisely at the moment where Jack's Crew (and he himself) are running away from the Pelegostos. By doing this, we can start the Adventure as soon as we can. It is possible. You can save a lot of time.

2) Elizabeth journey to Tortuga: You could cut all the scenes where she is in the ship with men believing the ship is cursed because of the dress. After all, you can use the scene where Will finds Elizabeth's dress in the ship. By doing this, you can give the audience an idea about how she really went to Tortuga by her own.

3) Isla Cruces fight for the Chest: You could cut a lot of these scenes to not make it longer.

Think about it. You could win a lot of time to make it 3 hours long :)
 
TM2YC said:
Could you upload a rough sample clip?
I'll post something at the weekend, would be good to get some opinions.
 
samspider3 said:
1) Pelegostos Island: You could cut ALL this segment. You can make something like Pintel and Raggeti arriving first to the Island and trying to steal the Black Pearl. After this, Will arrives to the Island precisely at the moment where Jack's Crew (and he himself) are running away from the Pelegostos. By doing this, we can start the Adventure as soon as we can. It is possible. You can save a lot of time.

2) Elizabeth journey to Tortuga: You could cut all the scenes where she is in the ship with men believing the ship is cursed because of the dress. After all, you can use the scene where Will finds Elizabeth's dress in the ship. By doing this, you can give the audience an idea about how she really went to Tortuga by her own.

3) Isla Cruces fight for the Chest: You could cut a lot of these scenes to not make it longer.
There is a fair bit of fluff in a lot of scenes that got cut.

Interesting idea for the Pelegostos Island. I've trimmed a lot out of it, including the first escape attempt and the second escape skewer scenes, so we still get a good introduction to Jack and the crew, but the real story begins before the 25 minute mark.

Elizabeth's journey I've kept intact too. Necessary? No, but it shows some character initiative. Will never visits that ship now, he hides on the Dutchman.

A lot of the fight has been trimmed on Isla Cruces, mostly cutting the pointless dialogue where they reaffirm their motives, so it should zip along nicely.

I also have removed Singapore. The introduction of Barbossa himself still works, it is just the second Tia Dalma scene is them moping about the loss of Jack, well that doesn't happen, so I've moved the first Tia Dalma scene to here, chopped a lot of the exposition out because it no longer applies, and cut in a new objective (the brethren court) rather than finding the Flying Dutchman. As I said before, it sort of works, but the pacing could feel a little off as so much was cut. I'll post a clip at the weekend and gain some feedback.
 
Someone has FINALLY figured out how to remove Jack's death from "Dean Man's Chest". Hats off to you, me matey!

I've been thinking along these lines (editing "Dead Man's Chest" and "At World's End" together, cutting out Jack's death) for years, although my ideas were somewhat different. I wanted to cut out as much as possible of "At World's End", preferably finding a way to keep only about 15 minutes of it. I also wanted to cut out the entire "land of the dead" subplot, Barbossa's resurrection, the death of Elizabeth's father, and Will dying and becoming the next captain of the Flying Dutchman.
DSM2337 said:
- The 'wedding' has been trimmed to remove all references to a wedding, now it is a declaration of love, and a violent ballet as they try and steal a kiss in the madness.
Why? They need to be married before they have their honeymoon on the beach. This is the 18th century, after all.
 
Here is the Tia Dalma scene as discussed. At this point, the crew have defeated the Kraken, then a montage of the Song of the Brethren is shown intercut with Norrington delivering the heart and Becket commanding Davey Jones, then we cut to this. Tia Dalma has not been referenced before now.

The sound is the working track, so not so worried about the quality of the sound, but would welcome any thoughts on the edit, the flow, the narrative, and the grading. Thanks.

: fanedit
 
hbenthow said:
Someone has FINALLY figured out how to remove Jack's death from "Dean Man's Chest". Hats off to you, me matey!
Thanks :)
hbenthow said:
I've been thinking along these lines (editing "Dead Man's Chest" and "At World's End" together, cutting out Jack's death) for years, although my ideas were somewhat different. I wanted to cut out as much as possible of "At World's End", preferably finding a way to keep only about 15 minutes of it. I also wanted to cut out the entire "land of the dead" subplot, Barbossa's resurrection, the death of Elizabeth's father, and Will dying and becoming the next captain of the Flying Dutchman.
Wow, if I could have cut out Barbossa, I would have, but he is pretty integral to some of the stuff I did want to keep.
hbenthow said:
Why? They need to be married before they have their honeymoon on the beach. This is the 18th century, after all.
It always seemed ridiculous to me. If they get out of it alive, then sure, get married. But on the boat, then? The fact that after the 'wedding' he effectively dies means the marriage becomes null and void anyway, till death us do part. ;-). And any 18th century puritanical hinderance to them not being married and having a child would be superseded by the fact he is the undead cursed to sail the seas for eternity (the theory that he can return to her properly after his ten years service not withstanding). And in my version, who's to say Sparrow or Barbossa didn't marry them after the battle, if that is what the viewer wants to believe.
 
I don't mean to be harsh, but I honestly don't think trying to mash those two Tia Dalma scenes together really works. I think he new color grade looks fine, but the scene as a whole feels jumpy, and that's without taking in all the dialogue looping.

A primary issue is that we never see Elizabeth on the same boat that brings the crew to Tia Dalma, nor do we see her enter the shack. Then she just appears there with a very teary face that doesn't fit the narrative context, vanishing whenever it cuts to the long shots. This breaks up the visual unity of action.

In addition, the characters' words don't synch up with what see on-screen. I am confused as to why Tia Dalma does her thing with the crab parts while talking about Barbossa or what exactly the characters are now paying Tia Dalma for.
 
Thanks for taking the time to watch it.

The scene is a little jumpy, I can't disagree there. There is a lot in the first scene that has been cut, most of it at this point of the film is redundant. I've actually kept more than my first cut, the whole 'touch of destiny' stuff seemed a bit pointless to me, but I put it back to give the scene a more natural flow. Unfortunately the second scene, post Jack's death, has nothing that can be included except the denouement of Barbossa appearing.

We don't see Elizabeth on the boat, or enter the cabin, but neither do we see Gibbs and the odd couple either. The teary face, not much I can do about that, but three months after the kraken attack and they've been on the run from Beckett and the Dutchman, hence they look a little bedraggled.

And that is why they are there. The Song of the Brethren has been sung (Jack knew this - maybe), and they need to convene the court, but also need to know where it is. Will asks directly. The crab throwing is really a means to lengthen the moment for Barbossa to reveal himself. Prior to doing that the cut seemed very harsh. And she's a witch, in the original scene she does lots of weird stuff for no real reason.

I've looked at this scene a lot, more than any other, and tried numerous methods of getting what I need out of it whilst making it as cohesive as possible. But maybe I'm missing a trick. Any suggestions would be welcome.
 
The scene is a little jumpy, I can't disagree there. There is a lot in the first scene that has been cut, most of it at this point of the film is redundant. I've actually kept more than my first cut, the whole 'touch of destiny' stuff seemed a bit pointless to me, but I put it back to give the scene a more natural flow. Unfortunately the second scene, post Jack's death, has nothing that can be included except the denouement of Barbossa appearing.

Well, the two films are building towards Will Turner's destiny, which is to become the new Davy Jones. His story is essentially a tragedy, and classic tragedy typically involved the hero facing a reversal of fortune and being unable to escape his fate, showing his powerlessness before the machinations of the Gods. So, the moment Tia Dalma states that he has a "touch of destiny" marks him for something very significant and is crucial to his story arc.

We don't see Elizabeth on the boat, or enter the cabin, but neither do we see Gibbs and the odd couple either.
Not true. Even in your version, Gibbs is clearly seen entering the shack right behind Jack while Ragetti appears entering out of focus behind Will during his "touch of destiny" conversation.

And they all appear in the boat in the scene prior, as well as during long shots, while Elizabeth pops up out of nowhere. I'd recommend cutting Elizabeth out of the scene entirely, as that would better maintain spatial continuity, though it might not make a lot of sense plot-wise that she isn't with the group when they go see Tia Dalma.

The teary face, not much I can do about that, but three months after the kraken attack and they've been on the run from Beckett and the Dutchman, hence they look a little bedraggled.
But none of the other characters really look bedraggled or so exhausted. And if Elizabeth seems on the verge of crying just because they've been on the run, then her character is completely diminished/inconsistent with the strong, outspoken woman that she is in the films otherwise.

And that is why they are there. The Song of the Brethren has been sung (Jack knew this - maybe), and they need to convene the court, but also need to know where it is. Will asks directly.
But the way the scene plays out, Will doesn't seem to know anything about the Brethren Court and the song until after Tia Dalma mentions it. So, if they are all aware of the fact that the Song has been sung and the court is to be convened, why all the stuff with Jack saying "maybe" and Will being confused? Why doesn't Will just say directly that they need to find the Brethren Court? Or more than that, why are they going to her in the first place to find the court, given that Jack is a pirate lord who should be aware of the previous conventions' location? This doesn't make sense. It might make more sense if you were to cut directly to Will asking about finding the court after Dalma says: "What service may I do you?"

And she's a witch, in the original scene she does lots of weird stuff for no real reason.
Can you provide an example?

And she's not a witch. She's a voodoo priestess. (Technically, a Greek Goddess within the guise of a voodoo priestess, but that's getting ahead of things.) Voodoo is not witchcraft. It is a religion that originated in Africa and is prominent in the Caribbean.

I've looked at this scene a lot, more than any other, and tried numerous methods of getting what I need out of it whilst making it as cohesive as possible. But maybe I'm missing a trick. Any suggestions would be welcome.

I think it would help if you were to elaborate on why you want to make a hybrid cut in the first place. That is, what is your rationale for cutting out so much of the two films? Is it to experiment? Is it to improve on the plot? And how do you see the story playing out now? Can you provide a synopsis?
 
I think it would help if you were to elaborate on why you want to make a hybrid cut in the first place. That is, what is your rationale for cutting out so much of the two films? Is it to experiment? Is it to improve on the plot? And how do you see the story playing out now? Can you provide a synopsis?

My intentions for the edit are numerous. The first, it is one story split across two films, so I wanted to see if it could be edited in a way that the single story can stand in a reasonable (less than 3 hours) cut. The second is that as much as I enjoyed the two films on original release, on a rewatch they feel overlong and I find some scenes drag. Third, this is my second edit, so I wanted to try something different than a standard cut or extended thing. And finally, which sort of ties this all up, I love the original film, it's in my top ten, so I wanted a sequel that I could also enjoy in one sitting.

The most important plot point I have removed to get the running time down was the death of Jack. He no longer dies. They defeat the Kraken (or at least it swims away), the song is sung (intercut with Beckett gaining the heart and Jones being under his control), then I skip Singapore and the Locker.

You clearly know the films very well and love them. I stand corrected about Gibbs (I posted the clip a while back), but maintain that the occupants of the boat cannot be distinguished and Regatti in the background out of focus is not something I've noticed editing the thing, so on a normal watch it won't be of consequence. I can point out another three continuity errors I'm aware of in the scene, but they are very minor and I think a compromise you have to make when trying something different (at least with my skills).

This scene becomes the lynch pin between the two films. And as I've said the only reason I include it is because it introduces Barbossa, and on his introduction Elizabeth can clearly be seen in the group reaction shot. So she has to be there. Hence the repurposing of her sitting around before that, to establish she is present, and has a small reaction to Tia Dalma flirting with Will.

Any ideas on how to get Barbossa involved without this scene?
 
My intentions for the edit are numerous.
The first, it is one story split across two films, so I wanted to see if it could be edited in a way that the single story can stand in a reasonable (less than 3 hours) cut.

Well, this is an area of debate. I'm not going to argue that there isn't a single overarching plot told over the course of the two films, but the P2 and P3 are as different from one another, as BTTF2 is from BTTF3.

They have very different areas of focus, a different tone and style, a different plot structure. P3 is easily the darkest POTC film and the one that falls fully into the genre of epic fantasy, where the supernatural has become part of the mundane. P2 is more action-oriented, more tighly focused and more in the vein of heroic fantasy.

Trying to place them into a single cut might be unfeasible, especially if you want to take out half of the cumulative running time. I really don't think 3 hours or less is a reasonable running time in this case, as you risk creating huge gaps and incoherences in the plot or rushing various arcs.

This isn't a case of the Matrix sequels, which were both blatantly incoherent and had a cumulative two hours of disconnected filler scenes that had nothing to do with the actual plot.

The second is that as much as I enjoyed the two films on original release, on a rewatch they feel overlong and I find some scenes drag.
i would say the only film that actually drags is the second, a consequence of a super-rushed post-schedule. The third is perfectly paced, for a POTC film anyway, all of which are vastly overlong and "bloated" by the standards of traditional Hollywood blockbuster filmmaking. These films deliberately have scenes and self-reflective moments, which do nothing to advance the plot, but are crucial to understanding its world and its themes, in a manner akin to Tarantino's cinema.

The most important plot point I have removed to get the running time down was the death of Jack. He no longer dies. They defeat the Kraken (or at least it swims away), the song is sung (intercut with Beckett gaining the heart and Jones being under his control), then I skip Singapore and the Locker.
Now, this is I think a mistake. It might be interesting to see if the film can be cut this way, but I highly doubt it would make a lot of sense. This is because Jack's death is the key turning point in the main plot and what the second film is building to. In the third film, his death is key to his motivation, which fuels his decision to stab the heart of Davy Jones and become the new immortal captain of the Dutchman. Without this and his resurrection, I highly doubt anything he does in the third film would make any sense at all.

How, for instance, does Jack learn that killing the captain would make you take his place? Why would he decide to do this? Why does he have those hallucinations?

These threads are not at all inconsequential and removing them might create more problems than it solves duration-wise.

I can point out another three continuity errors I'm aware of in the scene, but they are very minor and I think a compromise you have to make when trying something different (at least with my skills).
I'd say Elizabeth is the real deal breaker and the one that stands out the most, at least visually.

This scene becomes the lynch pin between the two films. And as I've said the only reason I include it is because it introduces Barbossa, and on his introduction Elizabeth can clearly be seen in the group reaction shot. So she has to be there.
That is only if you maintain the group reaction shot - theoretically, you could substitute it for a reaction shot(s) with a similar effect or remove it altogether. I'd suggest combing through the first Dalma scene and seeing if the group reaction shots sans Elizabeth might fit the situation. There is one, for instance, where Tia goes into the back, while Jack starts snatching stuff and then the others look into the room where Barbossa's boots can be briefly seen on a bed.

Any ideas on how to get Barbossa involved without this scene?
Not really, no.
 
Neosmith said:
That is only if you maintain the group reaction shot - theoretically, you could substitute it for a reaction shot(s) with a similar effect or remove it altogether. I'd suggest combing through the first Dalma scene and seeing if the group reaction shots sans Elizabeth might fit the situation. There is one, for instance, where Tia goes into the back, while Jack starts snatching stuff and then the others look into the room where Barbossa's boots can be briefly seen on a bed.
I'll have another look at this, it could be usable, but I don't recall them looking shocked, merely bemused.

Thanks for the comments, I fear this cut won't be to your liking as I've taken a lot out and you have themes and motivations firmly established in your mind, but I have tried to maintain a narrative consistency. The proof will be in the pudding.
 
Hey, I don't know if you're still working on the Tia Dalma scene or if you want to remove Elizabeth from it, but I've discovered a neat little trick for removing characters out of large group shots. You can magnify the specific shot (it might be called the blow up option) and then reorient the image in your timeline window, so the character you want to remove simply remains unseen/out of frame. It's kinda like when the television networks would resize widescreen movies for broadcast.
 
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