Quick question about aspect ratios

This is a very basic question, I've read through the related threads but I'm still confused.

I'm working from Star Wars Blu Ray in Sony Vegas, project settings resolution is 1920x1080. When I Match Media Settings with the source .avi, the Pixel Aspect Ratio is changed to 1.3333 (HDV 1080). But this setting seems to make the screen too thin and squash the image. I've looked for online image demonstrating the 2.35:1 resolution, which I believe is how the blu ray should be viewed, and the screen is much smaller by comparison.

I wondered if somebody could tell me which setting I am supposed to be working with?

Here are some caps:

Pixel Aspect Rratio 1.0000 square, Maintain Aspect Ratio turned on
http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/gugliemo/media/10squaremaintainaspectratio.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Pixel Aspect Rratio 1.0000 square, Maintain Aspect Ratio turned off
http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/gugliemo/media/10squarenoaspectratio.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Pixel Aspect Ratio 1.3333 ("maintain aspect ratio" seems to make no difference)
http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/gugliemo/media/131080anakin.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Am I supposed to be maintaining the aspect ratio, is the image supposed to be that thin, and does the image look squashed to anyone else?

Unless I'm mistaken you cannot have ripped/prepared this correctly. If you had, then 1920x1080 with a square ratio should result in the image looking correct, with the letterboxing intact. As that is what the source was. If your project setting is 1920x1080, having "maintain aspect ratio" on or off should make no difference, if you think about it.

I always like to edit without the letterboxing though (If possible). So I'd have my project settings as 1920x818, or 1280x545 (Or whatever the exact framing is on TPM) and have no black bars.

I think I've made some progress. When I render using a Pixel Aspect Ratio of 1.0000 and turn off Maintain Aspect Ratio I seem to get the right sized image. I gather HD uses a PAR of 1.0000 and not 1.3333 (Vegas was just importing the wrong settings when matching Media?) but why is it that the screen appears as 16:9 when I don't maintain aspect ratio and becomes massively letterboxed when I do; the source avi plays as 16:9. It seems to be doing the opposite of what it says it will. Can anybody explain.

The second screen cap with 1.0 square and AR turned off is the correct one. This image has not been squashed like the others.

A video of 720p or 1080p already has enough horizontal pixels for 16:9 and hence you do not need to "stretch" the image which is was setting an AR of anything other than 1.0 will do. If the source was something like PAL (720 x 576) then it is natively 4:3 and hence needs to be stretched to make it appear like 16:9

TM2YC said:

I always like to edit without the letterboxing though (If possible). So I'd have my project settings as 1920x818, or 1280x545 (Or whatever the exact framing is on TPM) and have no black bars.

Click to expand...

Does this have an impact on hard-encoded subtitles? (Do they still appear under the screen, or do you write an external subs file)

Avid4D said:

The second screen cap with 1.0 square and AR turned off is the correct one. This image has not been squashed like the others.

Click to expand...

True but there is still something wrong with the source file. If the source is 1920 pixels by 1080 pixels then "Maintain Aspect Ratio" should not alter the image in any way.

Avid4D said:

The second screen cap with 1.0 square and AR turned off is the correct one. This image has not been squashed like the others.

A video of 720p or 1080p already has enough horizontal pixels for 16:9 and hence you do not need to "stretch" the image which is was setting an AR of anything other than 1.0 will do. If the source was something like PAL (720 x 576) then it is natively 4:3 and hence needs to be stretched to make it appear like 16:9

Click to expand...

I see, thanks. Could you explain why 'Maintain Aspect Ratio' actually squashes the image in this case?

FoolsFollowing said:

Does this have an impact on hard-encoded subtitles? (Do they still appear under the screen, or do you write an external subs file)

Click to expand...

I've never tackled a foreign language film, until now I've just written my own hardcoded subs within Vegas, for the few scenes I've needed them. But in answer to your question, if you hardcoded them on top of the blackbars, then deleeting the blackbars would naturally delete the subtitles.

TM2YC said:

I've never tackled a foreign language film, until now I've just written my own hardcoded subs within Vegas, for the few scenes I've needed them. But in answer to your question, if you hardcoded them on top of the blackbars, then deleeting the blackbars would naturally delete the subtitles.

Click to expand...

What I mean is, if you remove the horizontal blackbars can you still create embedded subtitles that will appear under the screen, or do you have to overlay the subs on top of the image? From what you've said I assume it's the latter.

TM2YC said:

True but there is still something wrong with the source file. If the source is 1920 pixels by 1080 pixels then "Maintain Aspect Ratio" should not alter the image in any way.

Click to expand...

Ah, I managed to find the difference. I had changed the source media's properties to 1.3, now that I have set everything to 1.0000 Maintain Aspect Ratio no longer makes any difference. Thank you very much for your help.

Quick question regarding this matter... Isn't it true that some Blurays that are listed as 1920x1080 are still letterboxed and that some of the encoded information is in the black bars? (even though it doesn't need to be,obviously)

Yes, for movies that have a 2.35:1 aspect ratio, the frame size of the actual movie would be around 1920x800.