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Thunderball: Warhead Edition by ranger613

ranger613

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Hi all, this is an offshoot of a conversation on william--W 's FYEO thread about other potential Bond edits (here's his thread: http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?12329-Bond-12-For-Your-Eyes-Only/page3 )

While tinkering with the much larger House of Cards and Sorcerer edits, I rewatched Thunderball and saw so much potential to make this a better watch. It would also be a less time consuming edit for me as I know the material pretty well-- I have bought Thunderball more than any other Bond film : VHS, VCD, DVD, Blu ray x2 -- but I always remember it being part of a bundle purchase of another, better Bond film. Which is a shame because Thunderball really is Connery's last great (or real, for that matter) performance as 007. Its the last one where he really owns the role-- but the film itself has always stayed shy of greatness due to numerous reason-- lacklustre nemesis in Largo, slow pacing, the overlong underwater sequences, the rather jumbled plot (I never liked having Bond just coincidentally stumble upon the key plot points at the spa), and, the spa..

I see potential for a leaner edit here-- if you loved the original and are a fan of it, you'll probably hate the version I have in mind, but if you're open to watching something different, I have a few ideas of how I might tweak this classic.

Here are a few reviews I read trying to get a sense as to whether what didn't work for me also disappointed others:

Excerpts:
- There is also an extended sequence of Largo’s men hijacking a jet plane, crashing it into the sea, and killing one of their own men. It’s a key scene and needed to be in there, but it seemed to go on forever. It easily could have been trimmed by a few minutes, but it seemed like the director was in love with his own underwater photography, which is impressive, but causes the movie to stop dead in its tracks.
-The second half is definitely better, but still suffers from pacing problems.
-By the time Largo and his men suit up for the big final underwater sequence in the film, there's still something like 30 minutes to go, and it really feels like the film's played all its narrative cards already.
Read more at http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/motion-...-the-first-series-stumble#oVkyyBfFMOZK6kWv.99
-This should have been the best Bond movie. Just look at that poster! All the ingredients are there: Jetpacks, underwater fights, busty chicks, high-speed chases, man-eating sharks, and a hotter-than-ever Sean Connery. But something went wrong along the way from script to screen. It’s simple enough: It’s just plain not a very good movie.
-Approximately half of the action occurs underwater, where the photography is remarkably clear and colorful. The climax is set down there, but at over eight minutes far outstays its welcome.
-A fair amount of time is spent beneath the ocean's surface, and, down in Neptune's realm, the photography (by Lamar Boren) is clear and the action sequences are invigorating (when they don't seem to last forever, that is)
-I’m sure she played menacing very well, but I was so distracted by her impressively enormous bust size that I had trouble noticing.

My idea of a cutlist would be:
-Biggest change: Cutting out the whole spa sequence
---nothing in the spa was remotely exciting, and Bond doesn't make a big deal of the weird things going on there immediately (I mean he doesn't even report the numerous murder attempts; plus, after the briefing, the explanation he gives for going to Nassau could be reinterpreted-- in the original, he decides to go after Derval's sister because he saw Derval dead the previous night-- but this was on a hunch that the sister knows something. It's a hunch, she could be useless for all Bond knows, hence M's line "Do you think she's worth investigating?".
If you removed the ' saw dead Captain in the spa' line, you have Bond examining the dossier on Derval before deciding to go to Nassau after his sister--- why not? He was the pilot of the aircraft after all, investigating his sister might be as good a place as any to start, all the agents were seemingly randomly being assigned-- still operating on a hunch that she may know something, but no different from the previous scenario, except its more realistic, less complicated and gets us into the real story faster.
-Trimming all tourist/idle shots as well as most of the underwater sequences to the essentials
-Most of the rest of the film actually works except for trimming

I'm open to any other major cuts which should be made...
It's a rough idea at this point, what do you guys think?

007-Thunderball-1965-Front-Cover-34366.jpg


Cheers:)
 

matrixgrindhouse

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Should be an interesting project. One thing I'd like to see is the restoration of the original music for the end scene and credits. It's in some versions of the film, but most releases just have the standard James Bond theme. This is much better, I think.

 

ranger613

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matrixgrindhouse said:
Should be an interesting project. One thing I'd like to see is the restoration of the original music for the end scene and credits. It's in some versions of the film, but most releases just have the standard James Bond theme. This is much better, I think.


Absolutely, this is the theme to use! So much better..

I cut all of the spa out , Bond's first appearance is in Moneypenney's office right after the bomb theft... Problem is there's a 15 min gap between the jetpack and this reappearance-- he comes in at 19 min mark (in between are: credits, Specter hub scene, Devall imitator scene, Jet hijack and bomb theft), in a way good as the entire premise is set up by the time we see Bond-- I'll trim more but it flows well at present.. Goal is to get Bond to appear at 15 min mark.

I'll post a preview soon..
 

ranger613

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Need a new title for this.. Temporarily using "Operation Thunderball", based off the French title, but it just sounds a little... lame lol.
thunderball_operation_tonnerre_d5334663h.jpg


Any suggestions? I'd like to keep the word 'Thunderball'.

Here's a very rough sample clip I made (doesn't sync perfectly, will fix it):


I really like how this edit is going. The flow is good and all the little trims add up to shave a lot of time off-- cutting the underwater stuff more rapidly also adds more tension to the scenes. Did not have to significantly change the look at all (so far just color corrected the shark attack to look bloodier).
 

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Not to dissuade you, but I always viewed all the goings on at the spa highly enjoyable.
Bond's taste in breakfast, the banter with the count, his forced attentions on the masseuse.
Connery quite cold and arrogant in Thunderball, especially those sequences.

Thunderball Immersion.
 

ranger613

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Vultural said:
Not to dissuade you, but I always viewed all the goings on at the spa highly enjoyable.
Bond's taste in breakfast, the banter with the count, his forced attentions on the masseuse.
Connery quite cold and arrogant in Thunderball, especially those sequences.

Thunderball Immersion.
Thanks for the feedback. As this edit is progressing, I think I may have to add some of the spa footage back in, because they find the downed plane by 46 mins in my cut.. but that is a good thing in many ways as you get to the core plot faster and the film never slows down.

I like the spa banter too (Thunderball is probably my favorite Connery performance overall actually), but without the spa footage, the element of coincidence is removed from the equation and bonds impetus for taking on the mission is now instinct. However which way you look at it tho, its still random. He either randomly decides to go to Nassau on a suspicion, or is at the right place at the right time at the spa. The spa just slowed the film down a tad much I felt..

I'll have to think about this one....
What do others think?

Ps I like immersion ;) it's in the running for sure
 

Dwight Fry

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This was/is another of my super-secret collaborative efforts to do in the future. But there can be more than one, your direction seems to be a bit different than ours (we were keeping the spa, albeit trimmed).
 

matrixgrindhouse

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ranger613 said:
Any suggestions? I'd like to keep the word 'Thunderball'.

McClory wanted to make a second remake, under the title "Warhead 2000". Perhaps, "Thunderball: Warhead 1965", or some such?
 

ranger613

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Dwight Fry said:
This was/is another of my super-secret collaborative efforts to do in the future. But there can be more than one, your direction seems to be a bit different than ours (we were keeping the spa, albeit trimmed).

Damn, I'm sorry man.. Definitely should have more than one edit out there.. I'm leaning very strongly toward cutting out the spa scenes and including them as a deleted scenes, and I restructured the scenes differently, so I don't think we will have the same film at all. I remember you mentioned Golden Gun before too, which I am not doing anymore.

matrixgrindhouse said:
McClory wanted to make a second remake, under the title "Warhead 2000". Perhaps, "Thunderball: Warhead 1965", or some such?

I like Warhead, sounds good!
Three options so far: Operation Thunderball, Thunderball: Immersion, Thunderball: Warhead

UPDATE;

Whoever did the ADR / dub mix for this film... I don't know what to say.. Here's the ACTUAL film--watch the lips:

My feeble attempt to fix it:

Happens many times, to the point I was wondering if my audio stream was out of sync. Probably didn't have the best equipment back then... SHoulda gotten Q branch:x
 

ranger613

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So final runtime, without the spa is 88 Min (42 min cut from 130 min original). I'm going to watch it through again to see the flow of it--whether it works without the spa sequences. So far I've only gotten feedback on here that the spa scenes were good..

Found and used original end credit theme like matrixgrindhouse suggested, but I wish I could find some "old airplane noise" to foley in the aircraft--sounds weird without it.

Also, here's a sample of the first underwater sequence recut (from minutes to seconds):
 

matrixgrindhouse

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Ranger, can you isolate the original airplane sound effects by splitting the 5.1 mix into six mono waves? Besweet usually does the trick. Likely in center channel, but could be elsewhere.
 

ranger613

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matrixgrindhouse said:
Ranger, can you isolate the original airplane sound effects by splitting the 5.1 mix into six mono waves? Besweet usually does the trick. Likely in center channel, but could be elsewhere.

Thanks, will try this now!
 

Dwight Fry

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Not crazy about the use of the Impact font for the "James Bond Will Return" card. It'd be better to use something closer to the actual credits font. Also, why not "James Bond Will Return in You Only Live Twice"? (Too bad they didn't release a print with the full end credits, even if they announced the wrong follow up - OHMSS. So did The Spy Who Loved Me and they didn't mutilate that one!

Very good job in the underwater sequence!
 

ranger613

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Dwight Fry said:
Not crazy about the use of the Impact font for the "James Bond Will Return" card. It'd be better to use something closer to the actual credits font. Also, why not "James Bond Will Return in You Only Live Twice"? (Too bad they didn't release a print with the full end credits, even if they announced the wrong follow up - OHMSS. So did The Spy Who Loved Me and they didn't mutilate that one!

Very good job in the underwater sequence!

Thanks [MENTION=8734]Dwight Fry[/MENTION] , I finally found the right font, its Franklin Gothic:
http://annyas.com/screenshots/updates/thunderball-1965-sean-connery/

Thanks for the kind words, yes it's incredible how much you could shave off this film by simple trims.
 

Dwight Fry

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A little tip: Add if you can a slight blur to the card to make it look more vintage.
 

Linten1

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How bout a mash up of "Thunderball" and it's re-make "Never Say Never Again?"
 

TV's Frink

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ranger613 said:
Need a new title for this.. Temporarily using "Operation Thunderball", based off the French title, but it just sounds a little... lame lol.
thunderball_operation_tonnerre_d5334663h.jpg


Any suggestions?

Take (007) out of the title. :p
 

ranger613

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Dwight Fry said:
A little tip: Add if you can a slight blur to the card to make it look more vintage.

Thanks man!

Linten1 said:
How bout a mash up of "Thunderball" and it's re-make "Never Say Never Again?"

I can see it-- elder Connery having flashbacks of his younger self in a VERY similar situation ;-)
 
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