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The Avengers

Uncanny Antman

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Spoilers! Just funny to see a thread full of 'empty' posts. :)
No, that's all of them. ;)
 

Sunarep

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yads said:
http://www.deadline.com/2012/05/ave...sunday-with-u-s-canada-russia-china-openings/

The reality that the first $200m opening weekend in history would be written and directed by Joss Whedon will take time to sink in.

not to play devil's advocate or anything I think Whedon is a good writer, but the opening hasn't really much to do with Whedon. I guess if they had hired any other director it would have been the same financial success due to the incredibly well made marketing - note that I am strictly speaking in financial terms
 

yads

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It's more than just the (admittedly fantastic) marketing job - the WOM is sensational, and with Twitter etc, it kicked in almost immediately. In fact I'd argue that after the $18m midnights the Friday night was significantly bigger than expected, thanks to the WOM. And then it snowballed into Saturday.

Whedon making a giant, fun, crowd-pleasing spectacular is at the centre of that WOM.
 

DominicCobb

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$200 million is simply insane. That's more than either the Incredible Hulk, Thor, or Captain America made in their entire runs. I am now, for the first time, starting to doubt whether TDKR will end up with the highest weekend ever come July 22.
 

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DominicCobb said:
$200 million is simply insane. That's more than either the Incredible Hulk, Thor, or Captain America made in their entire runs. I am now, for the first time, starting to doubt whether TDKR will end up with the highest weekend ever come July 22.


i highly doubt it. Avengers is an event movie, the spectacle is much much bigger than Dark Knight Rises could ever be - plus 3D charge
 

yads

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Yeah, without 3D it's gonna be pretty much impossible. The only way is through a DH2-style midnight, something roughly double what TA managed. And since TDK did midnights roughly the same as TA it doesn't make sense.
 

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Saw this last night, and I know opinions I've read have been from "Not bad" to "Awesome". I'm on the 'AWESEOME' side of things.

To put this movie into perspective and how it fits together, and what makes it so damn good.

1. The effects throughout are top-notch. This isn't to say they are the best ever, but the are consistently fantastic. The best thing I can say is that they never took me out of the story except for those moments where I found myself admiring how good they are. If there were fx that were sub-par, I didn't notice/care because I was enjoying the film so much, sort of like say Star Wars where you can tell you're looking at a practical effect, you mind can report that it's a model or matte painting or what-not but you don't care because it is there to visually represent the story.

2. The 3-D is pretty damn good. There are stretches where the 3-D fades into the background. Joss showed tremendous restraint, not feeling the need to force 3-D throughout the movie, but when the action hits, he maximized it. Well done.

3. The above are just the base components, the things you expect/need so that such a movie can succeed. Where this film truly kicks the snot out of most other films of this nature is that masters what is one of the most difficult film-types to pull-off, the ensemble super-force. Joss has balanced the needs of each character just right, the set up of what's at stake, the assembly of the team, the crisis, the moment they come together, and the climax.. each character is afforded depth and growth but never at the expense of slowing the story down. They each have their own demons to overcome and it's handled wonderfully, which makes the moment when they finally overcome their own problems all the more rewarding.

4. Humor. This film has the perfect blend of action and appropriately self-aware humor. Joss plays the audience wonderfully building tension and then providing those moments for a collective sigh/breath with moments of levity which fit the moment, but don't feel forced or take you out of the moment.

5. Hands down, of the modern post Chris Reave Superman movies, this is in my opinion the best comic book movie yet made. It has everything you can want from a movie based on comics. Each character shines while contributing the to greater story, and setting up the Marvel franchise for the next decade, providing that the actors are willing keep at it, as that is part of what makes this all work, every actor fills their rolls perfectly.

Will this movie change your world? No. Will you have a good time? If you don't, you may need to have your heart checked for a pulse.
 

bionicbob

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^ Agreed L8! Wonderful movie!

Now did I miss it, or did they never once say, "AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!" ????

cool cameo by Mrs. Peel on the council!;-)

If you are craving more AVENGERS action, I highly recommend the current cartoon series on Disney XD. I easily put in the top 5 BEST Comic Book Cartoon series EVER Made!

 

Farlander

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I easily put in the top 5 BEST Comic Book Cartoon series EVER Made!

With the absolutely top one being Spectacular Spider-Man :p

I still can't believe Spectacular was cancelled in favour of Ultimate. And Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon isn't BAD, but... but... it's not that good either... Spectacular was so awesome... and Ultimate at times feels like it's simply an Avengers cash-in...
 

DominicCobb

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I'm sorry, but the greatest cartoon, let alone comic book cartoon, of all time is without a doubt Batman: the Animated Series.
 

g1orkatsos

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Batman: the Animated Series is definitively no1.
But Spectacular Spider-man is easily a no2. I was so sad when they canceled it and aired that Ultimate piece of crap. I HATE that show. It Fails in so many levels. I want my Season 3 for Spectacular NOW
:-(
 

njvc

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L8wrtr said:
Saw this last night, and I know opinions I've read have been from "Not bad" to "Awesome". I'm on the 'AWESEOME' side of things.

To put this movie into perspective and how it fits together, and what makes it so damn good.

1. The effects throughout are top-notch. This isn't to say they are the best ever, but the are consistently fantastic. The best thing I can say is that they never took me out of the story except for those moments where I found myself admiring how good they are. If there were fx that were sub-par, I didn't notice/care because I was enjoying the film so much, sort of like say Star Wars where you can tell you're looking at a practical effect, you mind can report that it's a model or matte painting or what-not but you don't care because it is there to visually represent the story.

2. The 3-D is pretty damn good. There are stretches where the 3-D fades into the background. Joss showed tremendous restraint, not feeling the need to force 3-D throughout the movie, but when the action hits, he maximized it. Well done.

3. The above are just the base components, the things you expect/need so that such a movie can succeed. Where this film truly kicks the snot out of most other films of this nature is that masters what is one of the most difficult film-types to pull-off, the ensemble super-force. Joss has balanced the needs of each character just right, the set up of what's at stake, the assembly of the team, the crisis, the moment they come together, and the climax.. each character is afforded depth and growth but never at the expense of slowing the story down. They each have their own demons to overcome and it's handled wonderfully, which makes the moment when they finally overcome their own problems all the more rewarding.

4. Humor. This film has the perfect blend of action and appropriately self-aware humor. Joss plays the audience wonderfully building tension and then providing those moments for a collective sigh/breath with moments of levity which fit the moment, but don't feel forced or take you out of the moment.

5. Hands down, of the modern post Chris Reave Superman movies, this is in my opinion the best comic book movie yet made. It has everything you can want from a movie based on comics. Each character shines while contributing the to greater story, and setting up the Marvel franchise for the next decade, providing that the actors are willing keep at it, as that is part of what makes this all work, every actor fills their rolls perfectly.

Will this movie change your world? No. Will you have a good time? If you don't, you may need to have your heart checked for a pulse.

These are good points l8, the effects were indeed very impressive and the character beats were excellent. My main issue with this film was it felt as shallow as a pancake storywise. Everyone in the world has seen this thing by now, but I guess I'll use spoilers anyway...

Loki attacks, Avengers assemble and bicker amongst themselves, Loki hands himself in (for reasons I am still unsure of), Loki escapes, Army attacks, Avengers fight, Avengers win.

I know that a simple story is sometimes the best platform for a film like this, especially when you have so many characters to juggle. So perhaps that is the reasoning behind it. But to me it felt cynical and underdeveloped from a story point of view. I love these characters, but I want to see them in a story that grabs me. Just seeing them together wasn't enough for me, even though the effects and character work was great within the thin narrative structure they had to work with.

A few thoughts...

1) What exactly was Loki's plan on the ship? I gather it was to lead hawkeye to them so he could blow it up with his super arrows? but why did he shoot just one? why not paste that whole ship with explosive arrows, or perhaps even something more explosive and bring the whole ship down in one go? They caught them by surprise, and then just put a hole in the side, which cap and iron man were able to repair middair. It was also suggested that he wanted the hulk to rage out. So did Loki mastermind Nick Fury getting Bruce Banner to work on the cosmic cube? was he maniuplating all of that to get hulk on the ship? If so, why not make the avengers kill themselves instead.

2) Agent Coulson - I loved his work as the nerdy cap fan, but using his death as the motivator to get the Avengers to care? Really? an agent that not one of them has really had a close relationship with? Sure, they knew him, but the montage of somber moments after coulson goes down as they reflect and think "gee, maybe we should work as a team and save the earth" just didn't work for me at all. This moment felt very forced. And on that topic, Coulson's gun that was created using the Destroyer Technology was about as effective as superman's celophane S. It just knocked Loki over. which brings me to...

3) Did anyone ever feel like any of the Avengers were ever in any real threat? They seemed pretty much invincible to me (this is addmitedly a problem with pretty much all superhero movies), so the whole thing plays out without a huge amount of tension when you know that characters cannot lose, or pretty much even be seriously hurt.

4) lastly, I thought they didn't really know what to do with Loki. He spent most of the movie walking around smirking, having conversations with the people he should be trying to kill. This felt like a plot convenience more than naturally integrated scenes. I also felt Thor was grossly underused, given that the guy is pretty much a god and the equivalent of Superman as far as I know. Case in point - when they realise Iron Man is falling to his death and Thor just stands there watching. I guess that he knew it was Hulks turn for a great moment on screen.

All of that aside, I looked forward to and enjoyed this film. It was a fun, sugary ride and I would go see more Avengers movies in the future. I just see it as more like a throwback to the cartoons of the 80's like He-man, Transformers and Voltron where the plot was "bad guys attack, good guys fight, good guys win, everyone buys toys and a lunch box". And sometimes that's just fine. But I wanted a little more... unrealistic? Probably. oh well.
 

Uncanny Antman

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bionicbob said:
cool cameo by Mrs. Peel on the council!;-)
That was Jenny Agutter as a council member, not Diana Rigg. Unless I'm misunderstanding you...?
 

bionicbob

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Farlander said:
With the absolutely top one being Spectacular Spider-Man :p

I still can't believe Spectacular was cancelled in favour of Ultimate. And Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon isn't BAD, but... but... it's not that good either... Spectacular was so awesome... and Ultimate at times feels like it's simply an Avengers cash-in...

Lots people told me Spectacular was really great, but for some reason I could not get past the chosen animation style. I just could not connect with it.


And gee Antman, EVERYONE KNOWS Batman The Animated Series is the GREATEST COMIC BOOK CARTOON EVER!!!;-)
 

bionicbob

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Uncanny Antman said:
That was Jenny Agutter as a council member, not Diana Rigg. Unless I'm misunderstanding you...?


Really??? Jeepers, I am so embarrassed. I could have sworn that was Diana Rigg. I feel very foolish now. oh well, it would have been a cool idea...:-D
 

DominicCobb

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njvc said:
Loki attacks, Avengers assemble and bicker amongst themselves, Loki hands himself in (for reasons I am still unsure of), Loki escapes, Army attacks, Avengers fight, Avengers win.

I know that a simple story is sometimes the best platform for a film like this, especially when you have so many characters to juggle. So perhaps that is the reasoning behind it. But to me it felt cynical and underdeveloped from a story point of view. I love these characters, but I want to see them in a story that grabs me. Just seeing them together wasn't enough for me, even though the effects and character work was great within the thin narrative structure they had to work with.

A few thoughts...

1) What exactly was Loki's plan on the ship? I gather it was to lead hawkeye to them so he could blow it up with his super arrows? but why did he shoot just one? why not paste that whole ship with explosive arrows, or perhaps even something more explosive and bring the whole ship down in one go? They caught them by surprise, and then just put a hole in the side, which cap and iron man were able to repair middair. It was also suggested that he wanted the hulk to rage out. So did Loki mastermind Nick Fury getting Bruce Banner to work on the cosmic cube? was he maniuplating all of that to get hulk on the ship? If so, why not make the avengers kill themselves instead.

2) Agent Coulson - I loved his work as the nerdy cap fan, but using his death as the motivator to get the Avengers to care? Really? an agent that not one of them has really had a close relationship with? Sure, they knew him, but the montage of somber moments after coulson goes down as they reflect and think "gee, maybe we should work as a team and save the earth" just didn't work for me at all. This moment felt very forced. And on that topic, Coulson's gun that was created using the Destroyer Technology was about as effective as superman's celophane S. It just knocked Loki over. which brings me to...

3) Did anyone ever feel like any of the Avengers were ever in any real threat? They seemed pretty much invincible to me (this is addmitedly a problem with pretty much all superhero movies), so the whole thing plays out without a huge amount of tension when you know that characters cannot lose, or pretty much even be seriously hurt.

4) lastly, I thought they didn't really know what to do with Loki. He spent most of the movie walking around smirking, having conversations with the people he should be trying to kill. This felt like a plot convenience more than naturally integrated scenes. I also felt Thor was grossly underused, given that the guy is pretty much a god and the equivalent of Superman as far as I know. Case in point - when they realise Iron Man is falling to his death and Thor just stands there watching. I guess that he knew it was Hulks turn for a great moment on screen.

All of that aside, I looked forward to and enjoyed this film. It was a fun, sugary ride and I would go see more Avengers movies in the future. I just see it as more like a throwback to the cartoons of the 80's like He-man, Transformers and Voltron where the plot was "bad guys attack, good guys fight, good guys win, everyone buys toys and a lunch box". And sometimes that's just fine. But I wanted a little more... unrealistic? Probably. oh well.
Loki wanted to be captured so he would be put in the Hulk's chamber, so that when Hawkeye created the explosion, the Hulk would be unleashed and presumably tear the group apart. Also when Iron Man is falling to his death Thor starts swinging his hammer to, uh, do something that will save him, but Hulk gets to him first.
 

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I agree that Batman:TAS is great, but I never got overly excited watching it, so to me it never will be #1 comic book animated series. Maybe has something to do with the fact that I didn't actually grow up with it. :noidea: And without any kind of nostalgic factor, I prefer Spectacular S-M.

EDIT: Which reminds me... I rewatched a few episodes of the 1994 Spider-Man: The Animated Series... to think that I loved that show when I was a kid... its... uhh... bleh. I can't stand watching it! The acting is SO bad that it's impossible to focus on the story or anything! I'm like 'I don't care what's going on, just stop talking... please... stop... shit... *turn off the show*'

EDIT 2: Hm... actually, when I was a kid, I was watching it with a Russian translation. Maybe the Russian translation is a lot better than the original English voice acting, I have to check that. I have the same problem with the Real Ghostbusters, I can't watch it in English, only in Russian (Russian voice acting was absolutely stellar though... too bad that the studio didn't translate ALL the episodes... the missing GB episodes were translated later by another studio, but they really weren't good)
 

L8wrtr

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njvc said:
These are good points l8, the effects were indeed very impressive and the character beats were excellent. My main issue with this film was it felt as shallow as a pancake storywise. Everyone in the world has seen this thing by now, but I guess I'll use spoilers anyway...

Loki attacks, Avengers assemble and bicker amongst themselves, Loki hands himself in (for reasons I am still unsure of), Loki escapes, Army attacks, Avengers fight, Avengers win.

I know that a simple story is sometimes the best platform for a film like this, especially when you have so many characters to juggle. So perhaps that is the reasoning behind it. But to me it felt cynical and underdeveloped from a story point of view. I love these characters, but I want to see them in a story that grabs me. Just seeing them together wasn't enough for me, even though the effects and character work was great within the thin narrative structure they had to work with.

A few thoughts...

1) What exactly was Loki's plan on the ship? I gather it was to lead hawkeye to them so he could blow it up with his super arrows? but why did he shoot just one? why not paste that whole ship with explosive arrows, or perhaps even something more explosive and bring the whole ship down in one go? They caught them by surprise, and then just put a hole in the side, which cap and iron man were able to repair middair. It was also suggested that he wanted the hulk to rage out. So did Loki mastermind Nick Fury getting Bruce Banner to work on the cosmic cube? was he maniuplating all of that to get hulk on the ship? If so, why not make the avengers kill themselves instead.

2) Agent Coulson - I loved his work as the nerdy cap fan, but using his death as the motivator to get the Avengers to care? Really? an agent that not one of them has really had a close relationship with? Sure, they knew him, but the montage of somber moments after coulson goes down as they reflect and think "gee, maybe we should work as a team and save the earth" just didn't work for me at all. This moment felt very forced. And on that topic, Coulson's gun that was created using the Destroyer Technology was about as effective as superman's celophane S. It just knocked Loki over. which brings me to...

3) Did anyone ever feel like any of the Avengers were ever in any real threat? They seemed pretty much invincible to me (this is addmitedly a problem with pretty much all superhero movies), so the whole thing plays out without a huge amount of tension when you know that characters cannot lose, or pretty much even be seriously hurt.

4) lastly, I thought they didn't really know what to do with Loki. He spent most of the movie walking around smirking, having conversations with the people he should be trying to kill. This felt like a plot convenience more than naturally integrated scenes. I also felt Thor was grossly underused, given that the guy is pretty much a god and the equivalent of Superman as far as I know. Case in point - when they realise Iron Man is falling to his death and Thor just stands there watching. I guess that he knew it was Hulks turn for a great moment on screen.

All of that aside, I looked forward to and enjoyed this film. It was a fun, sugary ride and I would go see more Avengers movies in the future. I just see it as more like a throwback to the cartoons of the 80's like He-man, Transformers and Voltron where the plot was "bad guys attack, good guys fight, good guys win, everyone buys toys and a lunch box". And sometimes that's just fine. But I wanted a little more... unrealistic? Probably. oh well.

All things are subjective so don't actually think I'll persuade you on this one, but merely offer why I disagree ;)

I'll agree that the conflict/what's at stake itself wasn't deeply-layered or complex, but it's a delicate balance and I think he chose the right path (simple over complex) and I think it was as complex as it needed to be, and if you stayed through the credits, this was obviously just the set-up for something greater.

In terms of Loki, I was actually impressed by how he was handled. Just as Dom stated, Loki's actions were very logical and I thought quite clear. He knew that in order to conquer the Earth he needed Earth's best (the Avengers) to be at best, destroyed, at minimum so completely dysfunctional as to not be able to mount an effective defense against his pending invasion. And yes, like the Emperor pulling the strings in Jedi, Loki purposefully manipulated the situation to have Banner and company aboard the giant carrier so that he could instigate their fragmentation. His entire game was biding time to get the portal built and at the same time destroy the Avengers from within, before they can really become the Avengers.

In the mean time, I felt that the interplay between the characters was truly enjoyable and what gave the story itself depth. Captain America's eyes being opened-wide beyond his blind patriotism and sense of duty. Stark's acceptance that there is something greater than himself and that like it or not, he has a moral sense of duty to help (the same thing that caused him to change Stark Industries). The structure of the story allowed those elements of the story just enough time to breath, but not take too long to become boring.

And also, Hulk Fun.
 
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