Laptop recommendations?

I wasn't sure what forum to post this on, so i hope i get some responses!

So I spilled milk on my laptop keyboard this past week. Waited til tonight to turn it on. Luckily it is working (at least for now). Ive backed up everything to my external hard drive. But i need to start looking into a new laptop Everyone is telling me get a Macbook. But im resistant to change and they are expensive as fuck. Im only looking to spend 750-800 at most.

Any suggestions, brand/model, specs etc. would be greatly appreciated!

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf

this doesn't reflect my personal experience with brands, but the generalized information seems correct.

i like small, simple computers. no bells or whistles. for that i use ibm/lenovo thinkpads. otherwise, i like asus and sony.

do NOT get a mac unless you care about never using FOSS software ever again. terrible. you want BSD? grab FreeBSD. want a real computer? grab Debian. want a computer for multimedia editing? grab Windows Whatever^tm.

joebshmoe said:

do NOT get a mac unless you care about never using FOSS software ever again. terrible.

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I agree 100%. Funnily enough I was thinking about buying a new laptop soon to edit on. Mine just doesn't cut it.

I'm quite fond of the Asus laptops that Micro Center is carrying.

reave said:

I'm quite fond of the Asus laptops that Micro Center is carrying.

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micro center doesnt carry asus.... they do however carry Acer. And reave was with me when I recently picked up one of those. though I like that dandy little machine, I wouldnt use it for editing. I swapped out the HDD with a SSD and put ubuntu on it. its zippy! i have less than $300 in it. if you want an edit, you should do it on a desktop. my 2 cents

ThrowgnCpr said:

micro center doesnt carry asus.... they do however carry Acer.

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-COUGH- http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.phtml?Ntt=asus&N=0&submit.x=0&submit.y=0
I didn't see them at your MC, but there were some at the one near me. Either way, Asus makes a nice little laptop, from what I've seen.

ThrowgnCpr said:

And reave was with me when I recently picked up one of those. though I like that dandy little machine, I wouldnt use it for editing. I swapped out the HDD with a SSD and put ubuntu on it. its zippy! i have less than $300 in it. if you want an edit, you should do it on a desktop. my 2 cents

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Fully agreed. I have a decently fast laptop at home right now, and it's not worth a crap for editing.

do NOT get a mac unless you care about never using FOSS software ever again.

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Although I don't really feel the need to defend Apple - I'm a Linux fanboy (currently I like Crunchbang/Debian) - this statement is only really true when it comes to video editing/tools. Most open source software come in OSX versions. (Some great projects are even OSX-only.)

Some software/tools I use a lot on my macbook:

Graphics:
Gimp, Inkscape, RawTherapee (for raw camera files), Scribus (with Ghostscript)

Documents:
Bean, OpenOffice, Celtx, Skim

Media playing/ripping/converting etc:
MPlayer, VLC, XLD, Cog, Songbird, Perian, HandBrake, Ffmpeg (command line AND gui versions), Foobar2000 (through Wine)

Other:
Thunderbird, Firefox, KeepassX, Adium, Growl, Fluid

Sound editing:
Audacity, Traverso, Ardour

Video editing:
Avidemux

(Also note that of bundled closed-source OS software, you can do a lot worse than GarageBand, iMovie and iPhoto. GarageBand is especially useful, and iPhoto's raw support out of the box is pretty impressive. it's not Lightroom, but it's solid.)

There are two main problems with FOSS on OSX:
- No fully-featured music player that's working properly. (I hate iTunes with a passion.) Songbird is buggy. Cog is great, but lightweight. I solve this by using Cog for playing and a combo of XLD and Foobar2000 through Wine for conversion tools and ripping. It works well when you get the hang of it.
- Limited video editing capabilities. iMovie is a lot better than Windows Movie Maker, but it's still not pro-level. Avidemux is a great tool, but limited in scope. Handbrake and ffmpegX (or better: ffmpeg command line) handle conversions well. Final Cut Express is probably your best bet. (I wish there was a version of Vegas.) Also missed: Avisynth/VirtualDub. You could run some functions through Wine, though.

Also note that Avisynth, a good inexpensive NLE, and Foobar2000 will be equally missed on Linux.

Addendum: I didn't mean to just list software. I mean to say that even on a mac it's perfectly possible to ONLY use open source and none of Apple's bundled products or purchased products (apart from os-specific quicktime libraries and the like). The only application (apart from the bundled iLife package) I've actually bought for my mac is RipIt (quality DVD ripper), and I got that cheap in a MacHeist bundle with the first season of Monkey Island.

If you truly care about open source, Linux is still your best option. But I do think the statement about FOSS and Macs is blatantly untrue. Except for video, and the video problems are even more substantial for Linux (Cinelerra be damned). Btw, you can dual boot into Windows on a macbook if you want.

reave said:

-COUGH- http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.phtml?Ntt=asus&N=0&submit.x=0&submit.y=0
I didn't see them at your MC, but there were some at the one near me. Either way, Asus makes a nice little laptop, from what I've seen.

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well damn. Yeah, I have the micro center webpage set to search my local store, and Asus products never come up. I was actually originally looking for an Asus Eee PC as I've heard really nice things about them. Either way, I'm pretty happy with that little Acer that I bought.

So Gatos, what exactly do you want to use this laptop for? If you give us some tasks, we can probably make some better recommendations.

I am also a fan of ASUS. been very pleased w/ my laptop for the past few months. nothin too fancy but gets the job done in every task i have handed it - even photoshop/editing/encoding. think it ran me around $850 a few months ago. I was more interested in battery life and portability than raw power.

elbarto1 said:

. nothin too fancy but gets the job done in every task i have handed it - even photoshop/editing/encoding.

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Do you run Vegas on it, elbarto? How much RAM does it have?

theslime said:

But I do think the statement about FOSS and Macs is blatantly untrue.

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it is way harder to use FOSS on OSX than it is on GNU/Linux and BSD (obviously), or Windows. sure, you have fink, and there are several mac-only FOSS projects out there, but from a development and usability aspect, OSX is frustrating with FOSS if what you want isn't on the ordained list of precompiled binaries.

i don't think this reflects negatively on apple at all - OSX (and all apple products) target a low common denominator of users (you iphone/ipad/ipod users know who you are) and they provide really great, but spendy, software. the target isn't for super nerds (thanks GNU/Linux and BSD) and you only run into trouble when you attempt to use it for something it is not.

that's why i'm putting Debian on my recently acquired powerbook

...imho

What are you talking about? Like I said, I have not ever bought (except one application) or pirated a piece of software, and I use open source software for every task on my macbook. Comparing OSX and ipods/pads/phones (which I hate) make no sense. They've been two worlds from day one, and the gap is widening to the extent that people theorize if OSX and the macbook will be gone in a few years to make room for more self-sufficient Apple gadgets. "Lowest common denominator" my foot - plenty of developers use Macs for the reason that OSX is a solid and efficient OS.

I use a lot of different applications (the above list was only a sample), all open source, and I haven't used Fink once because I never needed to. I have used MacPorts, but I found it's not really worth the hassle, as all of the software I used it for (Ghostscript, Wine, Inkscape, Gimp) comes in good, unofficial precompiled binaries (like the Lisanet Gimp). I'm not sure what list you're referring to, but I'm curious as to what specific task (except the ones I mentioned above; most of which Linux is also riddled with) you can't do on OSX.

I forgot the MacTex project and LyX. I also forgot Quicksilver. Linux users wish they had an open source application launcher/etc this good. I sure do, 'cause I'm two-thirds a Crunchbang/Debian user and a Linux fanboy through and through.

*gets popcorn* opcorn:
This is a total nerd battle: "Is OSX suitable for FOSS or not?"
FIGHT!!!

(tone is difficult to detect in text - I'm actually interested in the discussion, just see the humour in it!)

theslime said:

I haven't used Fink once because I never needed to.

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TV's Fink? :smile:

theslime said:

"Lowest common denominator" my foot - plenty of developers use Macs for the reason that OSX is a solid and efficient OS.

I use a lot of different applications (the above list was only a sample), all open source, and I haven't used Fink once because I never needed to. I have used MacPorts, but I found it's not really worth the hassle, as all of the software I used it for (Ghostscript, Wine, Inkscape, Gimp) comes in good, unofficial precompiled binaries (like the Lisanet Gimp). I'm not sure what list you're referring to, but I'm curious as to what specific task (except the ones I mentioned above; most of which Linux is also riddled with) you can't do on OSX.

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i said low (not lowest) and i mean low. not as in idiotic, but as in generalized... mac users use their computers for what most everyone else uses them for (music, media, editing, net browsing, etc.). the problem is there is less FOSS development targeted specifically for mac than most other OSes simply because the FOSS world develops on linux/BSD, and the bulk of the proprietary world develops for Windows and there is a good base of cross pollination there.

also, this is not an attack on osx - it is a solid, efficient OS on a BSD kernel and is absolutely fantastic if you have the reason and $$$ to spend on media editing software. professionally speaking, way better to design on mac.

i don't understand how this is a testy subject as it seems incredibly obvious to me... how often do you work with or compile code? also, fink is actually a great resource, too. you should check that out.

what is osx missing? choice. there is very little of it around apple products and always have been. it is a purposeful mindset and they have successfully accomplished this goal. people turn to mac for simplicity and convenience from windows. i reference ipod/iphone/ipad because it is a similar ideology in hardware and devices. you have 1 program offered to accomplish any one task.

hell, it's hard to provide anamorphic video or AC3 audio in mac-rendered fanedits around here.


also, it doesn't matter what developers are developing ON. it matters what they are developing FOR.

what is osx missing? choice. there is very little of it around apple products and always have been. it is a purposeful mindset and they have successfully accomplished this goal.

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Well, I listed quite a few applications I use. I don't have to use QuickTime player or iTunes - I have a choice between VLC and Miro and two different flavours of MPlayer (in addition to command line) and whatnot. OpenOffice is available in two flavours, and there's the great opensource word processor Bean (OSX-only). There are at least three burning applications that are better than any of the free ones on Windows. The list could go on (and it does above). I have more choice than I need - with two exceptions (Avisynth/Virtualdub and a Foobar2000/Amarok-quality music player). Don't mistake the nazi policies of the iOS app world for lack of choice on OSX - like I said they're worlds apart.

Apple are c*nts. But they've made a solid computer (the macbook isn't even bad value for money if you count sound and video and build quality) and a solid OS. But what stops me from just installing Linux or Windows on it is actually the great open source development on the platform you seem to pretend don't exist.

What I really responded to was this:

do NOT get a mac unless you care about never using FOSS software ever again.

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I disprove this statement daily. I'm doing it now when checking my e-mails, I did it yesterday when encoding video and burning cds, and I'll do it tonight when I'll watch a movie. I never use the iLife package, and I'll probably never buy a piece of OSX software. How do you reconcile this with your statement? Using FOSS software isn't just about compiling, it's also about using it.

i reference ipod/iphone/ipad because it is a similar ideology in hardware and devices. you have 1 program offered to accomplish any one task.

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Like I said: blatantly untrue. For burning, I could use the Finder tool. Or I could use LiquidCD, SimplyBurn, BurnOSX (all opensource, I believe) or buy Toast.

For most people, using FOSS isn't just abut compiling code. I do it when I have to, but since I'm not a programmer, it's a chore to me, and I prefer precompiled binaries. There's a binary of the next-to-last version of Wine? Then I'll get that (not the newest one) instead. How often do you compile code on Windows? My experience is that it's much harder than on OSX. There are also often ports of Linux software to OSX since it's often simpler to do than a Windows port. Like KdenLive (which I didn't know about until recently, and still haven't tried). Maybe that's the simple free NLE OSX users have been waiting for?

Like I said, I'm actually a Linux fanboy. But being untruthful about OSX and pretending most of the open source software we love on Linux isn't available for OSX isn't really helping anyone.

EDIT: Interestingly, the reason you give for choosing OSX (design work etc.) isn't really a point with me. In my last job I used Adobe Design Premium CS4 for Windows. Perfectly alright. I'm also a big fan of using Gimp and Scribus on Debian. It just works!

theslime said:

I disprove this statement daily. I'm doing it now when checking my e-mails, I did it yesterday when encoding video and burning cds, and I'll do it tonight when I'll watch a movie. I never use the iLife package, and I'll probably never buy a piece of OSX software. How do you reconcile this with your statement? Using FOSS software isn't just about compiling, it's also about using it.

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in best Mortal Kombat voice: "theslime WINS!....fatality"

theslime said:

How do you reconcile this with your statement? Using FOSS software isn't just about compiling, it's also about using it.

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oh yeah. out of the 30,000+ FOSS packages (at least... available in Debian), you've identified a few dozen projects where you've found unofficially provided precompiled binaries. you've also found it useless to use MacPorts and fink, and don't work with code at all.

we aren't talking about the same things here... i agree that saying "FOSS is impossible in OSX" is ridiculous. that isn't a point i have tried to make at all.

i work with Windows, GNU/Linux, BSD, OSX and several unices... i mostly work with code in GNU/Linux for the reasons i've explained above.

elbarto1 said:

I am also a fan of ASUS. been very pleased w/ my laptop for the past few months. nothin too fancy but gets the job done in every task i have handed it - even photoshop/editing/encoding. think it ran me around $850 a few months ago. I was more interested in battery life and portability than raw power.

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Asus tends to have great battery life.