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SW - Star Wars

DigModiFicaTion said:
That's an interesting thought and seems to be what has happened. I think I'm Star Wars fatigued. Hearing some of the complaining about the Ahsoka trailer and the other shows I'm realizing I just don't care enough to get riled up about it. It's all fake anyway. If it tells a good story then I'm fine with the new direction. I never cared for Heir to the Empire, thought it was boring. If they can use it as a reference and spruce it up a bit I'm fine with it. Disney is writing new stories and borrowing heavily from the Legends stuff. They seem to be trying to at least pull in the stories the purists want, but they can't unless they are willing to retcon and introduce new actors for Luke, Han and Leia. Personally I think they could easily do a Legends universe with new actors and keep doing what they already are and be fine. Sure it would confuse some, but they already do it with comics If I understand correctly. Cast Sebastian Stan as Luke, that girl who I hope is Leia from Andor as Leia and reprise Ehrenreich and Glover as Han and Lando respectively and have them drive the Legends timeline OR just have them jump in to the current storyline, then bring us up to the tragedy of the New Jedi Order that causes Luke to cut himself off from the force. If they could show that storyline in a compelling way that outlines why Luke would do what he has done I'd be ok with the way things have panned out. I've never cared for the idea that one family is the royalty in the force and the galaxy. The universe is too large for a microcosmic amount of people to have that much influence on it without them being some form of deity incarnate. Ahsoka looks like it's moving in a direction that I'm at least interested to see. With Kenobi being cancelled it also looks like Disney has also planned to focus on tangible aesthetics that mirror the Mandalorian and Andor. That alone is a positive step. Anyway, that's a lot of typing for something I said I didn't care about 😅
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Obviously Star Wars is bigger than any one set of fans so I’m happy they are seemingly trying to do stories for all. My kids like the sequels and many people like the prequels and the stuff that comes from the animated world. For me, though I acknowledge that Star Wars is fundamentally silly, I want it done straight. It works best when treats the Galaxy and its characters seriously while still giving us that mythology. For me, this is what worked in Star Wars and Empire and, more recently, Andor and early Mandalorian. It looks like Acolyte might go that direction as well as Mangold’s movie. If they keep that up, I’ll have no issues with them doing other types of Star Wars for other types of fans.
 
I too am Star Wars fatigued, can't say anything excites me too much from the franchise anymore. That said, I think the latest announcements have done a pretty good job at casting a wide net to appeal to the various factions of the fanbase. Mangold's Jedi origin film could be interesting. He's a solid filmmaker and it is a unique take. I liked 7 & 8 and liked Rey in them, so a future project with her has some potential as well. A Filoni film will no doubt make plenty of fans happy but I've gotta say I don't care at all as I don't think much of his work. Ahsoka trailer gave me Obi-Wan vibes so I'll skip that like I have most of the TV projects.
 
I've pictured Captain Pellaeon in my mind while reading Zahn's books for years, but while Xander Berkeley looks exactly as I imagined him, I never guessed that Thrawn's Watson would be John Connor's foster father! :p

Pellaeon.jpg
 
Gaith said:
Re: this weekend's announcements, it occurs to me there may be a kind of grand irony at play here: when Filoni was starting out, and even getting into the Rebels timeline, he was doubtless barred from doing series/stories about Luke, Leia, and Han because those characters were too important for mere animation. (Yes, I know that there's a Rebels episode featuring Leia.) So instead, he worked with his characters Ahsoka and Ezra, and kept working with them... with the result being that not only do they have far more total canon screen time than Luke/Leia/Han, Ahsoka is now poised to eclipse their screen time in live action, too. As for Luke/Leia/Han, when the franchise did use them again, they did so only to discard them fairly quickly.

So, we've got a case where the classic, "important" characters are limited to books and comics, while the "secondary" characters are starting to not only dominate the Disney+ series, but they're heading for the big screen themselves. It's... kinda wild. :oops:
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I feel like I had this thought in the back of my mind, but didn't know how to fully form it. Very well said, Gaith!

As others have pointed out, it's not necessarily bad to focus on other folks besides the Skywalker/Solo family. But how we got here is kind of weird, and it's not just that we're following others' stories in general, but it's a very specific group of characters that keep getting moved to the forefront. They're fine enough characters, but I don't think most fans demand so many stories about these folks the new way they wanted more live-action stories with the OT group.

And it's a shame that Disney squandered the one opportunity they had to bring the whole gang back together. (I'm not as mad about the sequels as some people, but they didn't come together as a satisfying whole.) Now with Carrie Fisher gone, we'll never get more movies with all of them...unless we get a CGI monstrosity that deepfakes every single OT character as main cast members, which is a whole other ethical rabbit hole unto itself.
 
TomH1138 said:
unless we get a CGI monstrosity that deepfakes every single OT character as main cast members, which is a whole other ethical rabbit hole unto itself.
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I would say there's a 99% chance that Filoni's movie will have deepfaked LukeHan/Leia in there. I can't see him resisting that urge.
 
henzINNIT said:
I would say there's a 99% chance that Filoni's movie will have deepfaked LukeHan/Leia in there. I can't see him resisting that urge.
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Fair enough. I don't think we'll get a whole movie of deepfaked OT characters (which is probably for the best), but I don't doubt you're right that we'll get cameos.
 
The rumorville is saying that Filoni is recasting Leia in his movie and Alden Ehrenreich will reprise Han.
 
DigModiFicaTion said:
The rumorville is saying that Filoni is recasting Leia in his movie and Alden Ehrenreich will reprise Han.
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Hmm. Alden E. is a good actor, but one of the biggest complaints about "Solo" was that he didn't look or sound very much like Harrison Ford. I was able to put aside my reservations fairly quickly, but would the studio take a chance on him again? Would the audience embrace him the second time around (perhaps nostalgic for the earlier film when it's released in 2027 or whenever)?

Of course, if Filoni is outright recasting, that suggests more than just quick cameos, and again, deepfakes will only take us so far.

Interesting that the most commonly tossed-about name - Sebastian Stan as Luke Skywalker - isn't mentioned in this rumor.

Well, to paraphrase ol' Senator Palps, we shall continue to watch this film's development with great interest!
 
I don't believe a single thing that comes out of the Star Wars rumor mill. Hell, I only believe 20% of what comes out of their official announcements at this point.
 
A channel I've been following who uploads scans of 35mm trailers he's made just added 'Return of the Jedi'! (obviously best viewed in fullscreen 4K):


The colours look amazing and the FX look so real on 35mm. The trailer is so good I might have to go watch a fan scan of RotJ right now! :LOL:
 
There’s a lot of discussion in the Ashoka thread that probably belongs here as it’s more generally Star Wars than specifically Ahsoka. In the interest of steering that conversation over here I thought I’d do a quick ranking of SW storytelling as I see it:

- Star Wars: A — a pretty great self-contained story that captured the imagination of generations.
- Empire: A+ — a sequel that didn’t have any right being as good as it was.
RotJ: B — a mostly unnecessary sequel. If the Throne Room scenes are omitted this is a D movie.
- Prequels: D — I don’t hate the over arching Outline of an idea for the prequels but they are just about as poorly executed as I can imagine.
- Force Awakens: B- — if the prequels are a good idea poorly executed, this is zero creativity (mostly) well-executed.
Last Jedi: C — I give it credit for taking a big swing. Star Wars, especially after TFA, was stale. Again, I felt the execution lacked.
Last Skywalker: F+ — it gets a plus because my kids liked it at the time though, now 11, they don’t. Just a mess.
Rogue One: B+ — I actually think the this is an A movie with a fan edit. Suffers from the SW problem of feeling like every throwaway line needs to be dramatized on screen.
Solo: C — It’s fine but again do we really need to see on screen the origin of every.single.thing?
Mandalorian: s1: B, s2: C, s3: D — great initial concept that has had diminishing returns as it has tried to connect to the Filoni-verse.
Book of Boba Fett: D — Not a good show. Almost completely unnecessary and forgettable fan service.
Obi Wan Kenobi: D — Not a good show. Almost completely unnecessary and forgettable fan service.
Andor: B+ — Best Disney+ show by a stretch. Also suffers as R1 did from its setting as a prequel.
Ahsoka: C+ — it’s early but so far it’s not bad but it’s that Filoni-verse that I just can’t make myself care about much. Here’s hoping!
 
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I can't argue too much with your rankings. Here are mine:
  • A New Hope: A — A great start to the series. It has its weaknesses (Lucas can't write dialogue, for example), but still really fun
  • The Holiday Special: F — Seriously, what even is this?
  • The Empire Strikes Back: A+ — Perfect.
  • Return of the Jedi: A- — A step down in quality, and kind of a rehash of Episode IV, but I still really like it and I think it makes sense to give the whole OT a grade in the A range.
  • Caravan of Courage: D+ — It's cheap and pointless, but I liked it as a kid so whatever.
  • Ewoks: The Battle for Endor: D+ — More of the same, but nostalgia is strong so it's also getting a better grade than it probably deserves.
  • Ewoks (animated series): D- — Pointless crap, made for children but unlikeable even for them.
  • Droids (animated series): D- — More unlikeable, boring crap.
  • The Phantom Menace: C — Like many of us, I was so pumped for this movie and felt really let down by it. Over the years, I've come to stop hating it, but I still can't really call it good. So I'll put it as a middle-of-the-pack C.
  • Attack of the Clones: C- — So few clones attacking. So much walking around the blindingly white halls of Kamino. It has good production values, but it's just so boring. Still, better than the Ewoks/Droids crap from the 80s so I guess it gets a C-.
  • Revenge of the Sith: C+ — Almost an interesting story. Too bad we skipped over all of the actually interesting stuff of the Clone Wars, which seems like the obvious next thing after the end of Episode II. With some better acting a a less over-the-top finale this maybe could have moved up to a B for me. But it didn't.
  • Clone Wars (animated series): A — Short and exciting. It makes me wish we got more like this, but maybe it's for the best to be left wanting.
  • The Clone Wars (CGI film): D+ — It really doesn't have too much to do with the clone wars, and the CGI looks awful. Had it just been 3 episodes of the subsequent series, it would have just been the worst three episodes. Instead, it gets its own terrible ranking down with the Ewok movies.
  • The Clone Wars (CGI series): A- — Not quite as good as the brief animated series, but much better than the movie it spun off from, and it finally tells the Clone Wars story we should have gotten as Episode III. But having a long TV format instead of a movie gave us time to really get invested in the story.
  • Rebels (CGI series): B+ — In the same vein as as The Clone Wars. I never quite got into this series as much, but that's more personal preference.
  • The Force Awakens: B — Like the original movie, this sets up a great new chapter in the story, but unlike the original it didn't deliver at all. It is too interested in setting up the next movies, and in paying "homage" (aka ripping off) the original trilogy in an even more brazen way than ROTJ did with ANH.
  • The Last Jedi: B+ — This one is divisive. I love with Rian Johnson did with his turn at the helm, with the exception of the superfluous Canto Bight side quest. I especially liked his message that that Force isn't all about the Skywalkers. Anyway...
  • The Rise of Skywalker: D — I guess it is all about being a Skywalker. This absolute trainwreck of a movie completely undoes TLJ, and moves back into copying from previous entries in the series. People fell asleep in the cinema at the showing I attended.
  • Rogue One: B+ — I generally don't like prequels, and I really expected to hate this movie. But I was pleasantly surprised! I still felt like there was some heavy studio interference, but it turned out about as well as it could have, and some of the fanedits here bring it up to its full potential.
  • Solo: C+ — I also thought I would hate this, and was just happy that it wasn't as bad as I thought it might be. This one definitely shows its studio interference, and I would have much rather seen the original Lord & Miller version, or an entirely Ron Howard version instead of the strange mix we ended up with.
  • Resistance: D- — Pointless crap, made for children but unlikeable even for them.
  • The Bad Batch: C- — A continuation of the story of The Clone Wars, focusing on characters shoehorned into the final season as a backdoor pilot. I'm not really sure what this show is about. I guess the clones are trying to find their way in the galaxy after the war, and seem to be in financial troubles so they're working for Wanda Sykes and also they have a little girl clone for some reason? About on par with the worst of the prequel trilogy, but not as bad as the 80s animated series or TROS.
  • Tales of the Jedi: B+ — Also a continuation of The Clone Wars, but with characters I like. It's totally unnecessary, but fun to watch.
  • The Mandalorian: B — Like Moe said, it starts out strong but kind of looses its way. I'm not really sure why they're still making it.
  • Boba Fett: D — All the worst parts of The Mandalorian with none of the good, except for the two episodes that feature Din Djarin instead of Boba, which makes me wonder why they were part of this show and not just the first two of his own series.
  • Andor: A+ — Although it's a prequel to Rogue One, this is the first live-action series that really feels like it knows what it's doing, and has an interesting story to tell.
  • Obi-Wan: C- — What was the point of that? Thankfully krausfadr made a trimmed down version if you really feel like slogging through this.
  • Ahsoka: TBD — I've only seen two episodes so far, and it's a real mixed bag. The acting is pretty bad, but a lot of the physical sets look great. Too bad there's also some janky CGI mixed in with it most of the time. It's also pretty hard to follow if you haven't seen Rebels. They're leaning on people being excited to see those characters without explaining at all who they are for new audiences, or showing the returning viewers why we are bothering with more stories for them. I'll wait until the end of the season to judge whether it's worthwhile.
 
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I think my point with this was, aside from the first two films, which were so good and so iconic that it launched this whole thing, it’s always been a mixed bag for Star Wars. Disney has been about on par with pre-Disney to me. Each era has some really good stuff that I like, some absolute dogshit, and a lot of stuff that just sort of exists to sell shit. Everyone has something to complain about, but I’m happier that it seems most everyone has some things to enjoy.
 
Star Wars - A - The perfect blend of age-old archetypes and modern effects. Simple story, simple characters, in a world that was pure imagination fuel.
Empire - A+ - Basically improves on everything. Industry leading creatives expanding on their craft in all aspects.
Jedi - B+ - A drop off from what came before. It was evident that it was made to get things over with. The writing is less sharp, the directing more pedestrian. Though everyone else is kind of redundant, Luke's story is still handled well which keeps the whole thing afloat and closes the trilogy well enough.

Prequel Trilogy - D - It has the imagination and world building, and designers still working at the top of their game. The story and characters are dead on arrival. It starts in the wrong place, treads water, then back-loads all the interesting material into a rushed part 3.

The Clone Wars - C - In all honesty, I haven't seen every episode, but certainly over 50%. This is a big fan favourite, and I can see why in some of these episodes. That does not tell the full story however; as there is truckloads of goofy, worthless filler in the show too. It can be good fun, and spending so much time with the characters allows for decent development in some of them. The high praise I see for it is kind of baffling though.

Force Awakens - B - It shamelessly repeats the formula, but is a pretty enjoyable imitation. It 'felt' authentic, with some nice dramatic moments and likable new characters; and moved fast enough to obscure the rotten foundations this trilogy was built on.
Last Jedi - B - Flawed flim but built on decent character arcs and the myths that under-pinned the series from the start. Script needed another pass to iron out a few issues, and it continues from the same world-building deficits TFA had.
Rise of Skywalker - D - A miserable product of so many talented people working hard to deliver a film that is creatively bankrupt and downright cowardly. More palettable than the PT, but with none of the storytelling ambitions.

Rogue One - C - A narrative mess, built around a 'plot hole'/meme, with massively under-developed characters. It has some nice visuals, and is watchable enough.
Solo - C- - A big nothing burger. A character defined by his actor, recast for a prequel set before his defining character arc, almost entirely reshot out of the fear of doing something interesting.

Mandalorian - C- - Minimalistic fan service, kinda like Star Tours from your couch. It's impressive how much charm can be squeezed out of a puppet and a suit of armour. That is all there is though. Quit after 2, I hear it got worse.
Andor - B - A bumpy start that gives way to a genuinely involving slow-burner. The most lived-in and human the galaxy has ever felt. Not for everyone but very rewarding for those who invest.

I've skipped a lot of the D+ shows by now. I can just tell they're going to bore or annoy me haha. I'd agree with the broader point that quality storytelling in Star Wars hasn't changed as dramatically under Disney's ownership as some would suggest. I do think something changed with their approach to releasing content more frequently and dissolving the line between the movies and EU material.

Shoutout to Knights of the Old Republic 1 and especially 2, which are still some of my favourite Star Wars stories in any medium.
 
Fun lists! My favorite comments so far: Moe pointing out that not every single thing needs to be dramatized on-screen; Asterixsmeagol saying that either a full Lord/Miller Solo or a full Ron Howard Solo would have been better than the mixed bag; and henzINNIT giving props to KotOR and also saying about the prequel films: "It starts in the wrong place, treads water, then back-loads all the interesting material into a rushed part 3." Yes, yes, yes! That's so true, and an aspect that people don't talk about as much.

Here are my rankings, for what they're worth. I skipped things if I haven't seen them or haven't seen enough of them.

Star Wars - A+ - While Empire would manage to be even better, the original film was so great that we're still talking about the franchise 46 years later.
Holiday Special - F - It's not so bad it's good. It's so bad it's bad.
Empire - A+ - Of course!
Jedi - A- - Loses a couple of points for rehashing some stuff, but the tone, the pacing, the dialogue and the acting are still overall top-notch. If Jedi had been on the same level as Superman III and Jaws 3-D (both released the summer as Jedi), again, we might not be talking about this franchise 40-plus years later.
Droids - C - I love Threepio and Artoo so much that they elevate the dry material for me.
Ewoks - C - While I enjoy the Ewoks in Jedi, I never felt the need to watch that much more of them.
Prequels - D - I have a bit more appreciation for these after watching multiple fan edits. And I feel bad for Ahmad Best and Jake Lloyd, who never deserved the abuse they received. (I'm glad Best is doing better and I pray for Lloyd to recover one day.) I even acknowledge that Lucas didn't make the films as a lazy cynical cash-in; he genuinely made the movies he wanted to see. But the series as a whole still needed better direction and acting, and someone to rein in the ideas that didn't work. There are some underlying ideas that could have led to an amazing story, but we mostly got missed opportunities.
Clone Wars (2003) - B+ - I honestly would have preferred a series of this instead of the 2008 version.
Clone Wars theatrical movie - D - When I saw this movie in the theater at the time, my highest compliment was that it was the only Star Wars film in the prequel era that didn't leave me with a terrible pit in my stomach when it was over. It was just "Yeah, that was fine, I guess." On a recent re-watch, though, I agree that the Stinky the Hutt movie is as bad as everyone says it is.
Clone Wars (2008-2020 series) - C+ - I've only seen about 20 or 30 episodes. It gets such praise from other Star Wars fans, I keep hoping I'll like it better. Also, the four-episode "Siege of Mandalore" arc is amazing, and tonally what the rest of the series should have felt like. But I feel like the series wants me to cheer for the Jedi unironically, yet I don't really root for anybody in a puppet war manipulated on both sides by the same person. A movie or short arc is one thing, but over 100 episodes of that? Also, the blocky art style (i.e. Obi-Wan's wooden-looking hair) doesn't do much for me. All that said, the voice work is terrific, with James Arnold Taylor particularly shining as Obi-Wan.
Force Awakens - B+ - A bit derivative, but there are signs of new ideas. (A defecting stormtrooper with a conscience is a great idea, for one.) It seemed like the franchise was going somewhere, but this turned out to be the best film in the sequel trilogy.
Last Jedi - B- - I couldn't stand the movie when I first saw it, but a number of well-reasoned posts and videos have helped me to appreciate it more. I still don't have much fun watching it, but I respect what it's trying to do.
Rise of Skywalker - C- - I confess that I had fun watching this in the theater. It was an exciting thrill ride on first watch even though it isn't good cinema and none of the plot points hold up to scrutiny after the film. While Rey and Kylo and the Emperor go through cliched motions, Finn and Poe have their character arcs completely destroyed. Still, I didn't nearly fall asleep like I did during the theatrical prequels; JJ Abrams knows how to keep things moving more than that. And bonus points for Threepio finally getting something useful to do and having some actually funny lines for the first time in a Star Wars movie since 1983.
Rogue One - A - One of the best things Disney has done with the franchise, and extra points for making Vader a scary villain again.
Solo - B- - I like this film probably more than it deserves. We didn't need all this backstory, and Alden E. is a good actor who nonetheless can't live up to Harrison Ford (could anyone?). Still, it has the right tone and pacing; I liked the new characters; and there were some good twists. Lawrence Kasdan is the unsung hero of Star Wars.
Mandalorian - A - Still catching up. The first two seasons were great and ended on the right note. What I've heard about Season 3 makes me very nervous.
Andor (5 episodes in) - B- - Good series and good science-fiction, but so far, not really good at capturing the Star Wars feel and tone. Props for not overdoing the fan service, but paradoxically, this could have just been Star Trek or its own standalone series.
Tales of the Jedi - C - On the same level as Clone Wars. It's fine, I guess.
Book of Boba Fett (6 episodes in) - C+ - Why am I supposed to cheer for one crime lord trying to rule Tattooine over another crime lord? Also, does every single Star Wars production have to visit Tattooine? (The first four episodes never leave the planet once.) The last two episodes have been the best, but they should have been episodes of a different series.

I'm done rambling, I guess. Someone else's turn! :)
 
Here's how I'm feeling currently. Scores out of 10.
OT - ANH 7, ESB 8, RotJ 7
PT - TPM 6.5, AotC 4, RotS 5
Rogue One 9
ST - TFA 6.75, TLJ 5.5, RoS 5.75
TV Animated - TCW 8, CW 5.5, Rebels 5.75, Resistance 4.5, Bad Batch 4
TV Live Action - Mando 6, BoB 3, Andor 9, Ahsoka 6
 
DigModiFicaTion said:
Here's how I'm feeling currently. Scores out of 10.
OT - ANH 7, ESB 8, RotJ 7
PT - TPM 6.5, AotC 4, RotS 5
Rogue One 9
ST - TFA 6.75, TLJ 5.5, RoS 5.75
TV Animated - TCW 8, CW 5.5, Rebels 5.75, Resistance 4.5, Bad Batch 4
TV Live Action - Mando 6, BoB 3, Andor 9, Ahsoka 6
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And...Solo?
 
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