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The Lord of the Rings

Captain Khajiit

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Has anyone else noticed the furore that is surrounding this April release?  It's absolutely astounding.  There are currently 1,609 reviews on amazon.com and 160 on amazon.uk - the vast majority of them negative one-star protest reviews.  

People seem convinced that this is some kind of studio-orchestrated rip off.  I don't understand it.  The extended versions will be released when The Hobbit is released, and as with the DVDs, we all know they are coming - apparently with new special features that are still being made.  As I see it, we are simply being given the choice to buy the theatrical cuts in advance, if we want them.

Opinions, guys?
 

elbarto1

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who wants the theatricals though?
I happen to agree (without reading one negative review) the double... or wait, this would be the triple dip of these (and other - *cough*star wars) films is astounding. Just give the people what they want instead of constantly running our wallets through the ringer.
I'll pass.
 

TV's Frink

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There's a big difference between the treatment of LOTR and SW on DVD. Jackson gives us a choice of which version we want. Lucas doesn't.

And I don't get the uproar. They did the very same thing with the standard DVD release of the LOTR movies.
 

reave

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The fact is we know ahead of time that the extended cuts are coming. It's quite a rarity for a studio to tell us ahead of time that there will be a double-dip, and I do appreciate that. I want the f#*king extended editions now, but I can wait, knowing that the "real" versions are coming soonish.

There are also plenty of people who are completely happy with the theatrical versions.
 

Captain Khajiit

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elbarto1 said:
who wants the theatricals though?

I want them. I hadn't seen the theatricals until recently, but after reading some of Kerr's cuts, especially when he said he preferred the theatrical cut of the Council of Elrond, I became curious, so I rewatched them for the first time since buying them when they came out. I was surprised to discover that I definitely preferred The Fellowship of the Ring, and I'm on the fence about the following two.

I do like the extended versions, but after reading the differences on IMDB, I have come to the surprising conclusion that they added more that I didn't like than I actually liked. On balance, I'm leaning towards preferring the theatricals. :eek:
 

TV's Frink

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Saves a little time, too :wink:
 

elbarto1

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what I really want is a set that includes both - even though if I sit down to watch that trilogy I'd probably watch the extended's. and good point TVF about lucas NOT letting you choose, I was really just grasping for another big trilogy that has multiple versions/releases.

oh and I want a fanedit without the spider. I hate them and cant watch those scenes.
maybe I'll create an arcahnophobic fancut ;)
 

Gaith

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FOTR: probably extended cut, I'll have to watch the EE again to make sure.
TTT: theatrical; though the Faramir flashback is nice, the pace just sags too much.
ROTK: make... it... end! Theatrical, without a doubt.

Just my two cents. ;)
 

Gaith

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IGN DVD FTW:
My final thoughts on the extended edition: only one scene was truly worth inclusion in the theatrical cut, the confrontation between Gandalf and the Witch-King. The rest are all disposable. But again, the SEE is not for the masses, it's for the fans who will eat it all up and not complain about the pacing going wonky, inconsistencies (Eowyn without the helmet) or that some scenes spoil later ones (the Corsair confrontation).
 

The Faceless One

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I think people are right to complain, why can't both versions be released at the same time on the same disc, blu-ray has more than enough capacity. If Blu-ray is meant to be the movie-buff's format of choice it should offer a collector everything they might want in one package.

Sets like Close Encounters and Blade Runner should be the norm, if there are multiple versions they should be packaged together. For something that's gone completely the other way look at Watchmen, 3 versions of the film, 3 Blu-rays, none of the blu-rays offer multiple versions.
 

Gieferg

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Well, I would give 1 star for those releases also. It should be two-versions release via seamless branching or multiple discs.

And what I think about EEs:

FOTR - theatrical release is perfect, but EE is also great

TTT - theatrical is very good, and extended is also very good

ROTK - theatrical is chopped badly, they've cut out things which should be in (Saruman), and left in things that should be in EE only (multiple endings). In this case EE is the only right choice.

(i have all three film as EE 4DVD sets, maybe someday I will buy BR but EE only)

btw, comments on Amazon look really funny :D

especially when he said he preferred the theatrical cut of the Council of Elrond

Well, Council of Elrond can be edited down by any faneditor to its theatrical form (or at least to very similar form). No big deal.
But there are some things in theatricals like some shots and scenes (for example when fellowship meets elves) which are not present in EEs. And because of that I would like to have BR release with both versions, but I wont buy theatricals just for few shots/short scenes/lines of dialogue.
 

Captain Khajiit

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The Faceless One said:
I think people are right to complain, why can't both versions be released at the same time on the same disc, blu-ray has more than enough capacity. Sets like Close Encounters and Blade Runner should be the norm, if there are multiple versions they should be packaged together.

I can see why people want both versions released at the same time, though apparently more extras are being made for the extended edition release, but I don't think it's as simple as putting both versions on one disc via seamless branching. There are different takes of a number of scenes, so it's not the case that the extended versions are just the theatricals with spliced-in scenes that can be skipped by the discs.

A box set with both versions on will doubtless will be more expensive, so for people who simply like one version it will be a waste of money. I'm fine with theatricals first, extended second - like the DVDs. It seems logical to me, and as TV's Frink says at least we have a choice.

Gieferg said:
especially when he said he preferred the theatrical cut of the Council of Elrond
Well, Council of Elrond can be edited down by any faneditor to its theatrical form (or at least to very similar form). No big deal.

:-? I don't understand the comment. I just said his preference interested me.

My final thoughts on the extended edition: only one scene was truly worth inclusion in the theatrical cut, the confrontation between Gandalf and the Witch-King. The rest are all disposable.

For me, this scene can be added to the disposable pile too, in its unaltered form. I like how Kerr cut this scene because I hate how weak it makes Gandalf look. I wished Jackson had followed the book here; it's so much better that the Nazgul flies off when the horns blow : it leaves you wondering what if...

The only scene I really like from the EE of ROTK is Gandalf's monologue about the history of Gondor. I find it adds to one's perception of the city, and sits well with the impression of decadent antiquity the production gave it.
 

The Faceless One

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Captain Khajiit said:
The Faceless One said:
I think people are right to complain, why can't both versions be released at the same time on the same disc, blu-ray has more than enough capacity. Sets like Close Encounters and Blade Runner should be the norm, if there are multiple versions they should be packaged together.

I can see why people want both versions released at the same time, though apparently more extras are being made for the extended edition release, but I don't think it's as simple as putting both versions on one disc via seamless branching. There are different takes of a number of scenes, so it's not the case that the extended versions are just the theatricals with spliced-in scenes that can be skipped by the discs.

A box set with both versions on will doubtless will be more expensive, so for people who simply like one version it will be a waste of money. I'm fine with theatricals first, extended second - like the DVDs. It seems logical to me, and as TV's Frink says at least we have a choice.[/quote:34c8x3jm]

It doesn't really matter if it's done by seamless branching or if each version is on a different disc, but if you put both versions in one set it's only a little bit more expensive (although not for a good reason) but if they are seperate sets then it will be twice the price for those people who want both. Choice is great but I'd prefer to still be able to choose which version to watch after I've made the purchase.

This got me thinking about what the trend is for Blu-ray releases when it comes to multiple versions:

Multiple versions on one set:

Blade Runner - also released in a smaller set with only 1 cut
Close Encounters
Gladiator
Donnie Darko
Terminator 2 - earlier version only had 1 cut
Stargate - earlier version only had 1 cut
Spiderman 2

Multiple versions on multiple sets:

Watchmen - 3 version all released seperately.

Only one version available (where multiple versions are available on DVD):

Daredevil - Director's cut only
Star Trek 1 -Theatrical only, 1st digital release of theatrical version, director's cut only exists in standard def
Star Trek 2 - Theatrical only, newly remastered for this release
Star Trek 6 -Theatrical only, 1st digital release of theatrical version
Waterworld - Theatrical only, extended cut only exists in standard def


That's all I can think of at the moment, don't think it's proved anything but I would be much more likely to upgrade from my DVDs if I get multiple cuts, and I think that's the point, people are more likely to take up Blu-ray if they think it's the last time they'll ever purchase that film.
 

TV's Frink

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It's a fair point. I'm only interested in the extended versions of the LOTR movies, so I don't mind waiting. But if you want both versions, it would indeed be cheaper for you to get it all on one set.

Which is why they don't do it...
 

Gieferg

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I don't understand the comment. I just said his preference interested me.

The comment was about that there's no need to buy theatrical version to have theatrical council of Elrond :)

Captain Khajiit said:
but I don't think it's as simple as putting both versions on one disc via seamless branching.

It is.

There is 2DVD limited edition of LOTR movies which contains both versions of each movie merged via seamless branching (the movie on double-sided DVD and extras on single-sided DVD), so why not the BR?

The only scene I really like from the EE of ROTK

I like especially Saruman's scene and Sauron's messenger at the black gate (but Aragorn shouldn't have kill him).
 

Captain Khajiit

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The Faceless One said:
Choice is great but I'd prefer to still be able to choose which version to watch after I've made the purchase.

TV's Frink is right. You do have a fair point; but what I find fascinating is that I have the impression that there is a strong EE-only crowd that seem convinced that these are the only true versions and this release is cheating them out of something. They don't seem to care about a choice at all: they want the EE or nothing.

I was only half-heartedly arguing to be honest. :) I started this thread as I was interested in the all furore that was taking place over the issue, and to some extent I'm just having fun debating it. Nothing serious! :smile: I think they will release both versions on a set eventually though, as they did do with the limited edition DVDs.

As regards to the films you posted, I don't really see a pattern in blu-ray releases either. I would only add that Terminator 2 (and perhaps Bladerunner?) had single edition releases before the later multiple packages, and that with the ST films it seems early days. In fact, if you don't count (I think) one German VHS release, the blu-ray was the first time the theatrical cut of VI was ever released; though arguably a DVD then came out to accompany it.


The Faceless One said:
people are more likely to take up Blu-ray if they think it's the last time they'll ever purchase that film.

Are they? :) I understand exactly what you mean, and that might well be what people think, but you never know with technological advances, do you? I swore I would never invest in HD formats, as I thought I didn't care, but then I realized how awesome blu-rays looked. The same happened with DVD after VHS all those years before, so I am not sure there will ever be a last time, or if I truly want that last time to come.

Gieferg said:
I don't understand the comment. I just said his preference interested me.
The comment was about that there's no need to buy theatrical version to have theatrical council of Elrond :)

Got you! :wink:

Gieferg said:
Captain Khajiit said:
but I don't think it's as simple as putting both versions on one disc via seamless branching.
It is.

I stand corrected. I had thought those discs were flippers, as the two versions were incompatible.

Gieferg said:
I like especially Saruman's scene and Sauron's messenger at the black gate (but Aragorn shouldn't have kill him).

Aragorn killing him is why I don't like that scene. :) I don't like the continuity error either.
 

The Faceless One

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Captain Khajiit said:
The Faceless One said:
Choice is great but I'd prefer to still be able to choose which version to watch after I've made the purchase.

TV's Frink is right. You do have a fair point; but what I find fascinating is that I have the impression that there is a strong EE-only crowd that seem convinced that these are the only true versions and this release is cheating them out of something. They don't seem to care about a choice at all: they want the EE or nothing.

I was only half-heartedly arguing to be honest. :) I started this thread as I was interested in the all furore that was taking place over the issue, and to some extent I'm just having fun debating it. Nothing serious! :smile: I think they will release both versions on a set eventually though, as they did do with the limited edition DVDs.

As regards to the films you posted, I don't really see a pattern in blu-ray releases either. I would only add that Terminator 2 (and perhaps Bladerunner?) had single edition releases before the later multiple packages, and that with the ST films it seems early days. In fact, if you don't count (I think) one German VHS release, the blu-ray was the first time the theatrical cut of VI was ever released; though arguably a DVD then came out to accompany it.[/quote:2ysewqhr]

There do seem to be a lot of people who don't care about the Theatrical cuts, but I'm very much pro-choice.

I'm sure there will one day be a release with both versions and all the extras, hopefully it will be later this year when the extended cuts are released, but it's just annoying having to wait, I just believe in doing things once and doing them right.

Captain Khajiit said:
The Faceless One said:
people are more likely to take up Blu-ray if they think it's the last time they'll ever purchase that film.

Are they? :) I understand exactly what you mean, and that might well be what people think, but you never know with technological advances, do you? I swore I would never invest in HD formats, as I thought I didn't care, but then I realized how awesome blu-rays looked. The same happened with DVD after VHS all those years before, so I am not sure there will ever be a last time, or if I truly want that last time to come.[/quote:2ysewqhr]

It's all about perception, that's why I used the phrase "if they think...", it doesn't matter if it is the last time, it just seems like bad marketing to release something whilst also saying "there'll be a better version along soon", when you could release it saying "this has everything released on DVD and more!!!!", if they said that I would buy it, as it is I'll just wait and see.
 
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