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white43 Wrote:I suppose it was just me that went - but Amy/Rory - you do have children/child.....Big Grin

River really ceased being theirs as soon as she regenerated into Mels, not only did her personality change, so did her race colour
Zarius Wrote:River really ceased being theirs as soon as she regenerated into Mels, not only did her personality change, so did her race colour

And then she regenerates into River, with the same hair colour as Amy. So what? River Song IS Amy and Rory's daughter regardless of regenerations.
LastSurvivor Wrote:A great episode? Not for me I'm afraid guys. I've been a fan of Who ever since I hid behind the sofa when Tom Baker met the nightmare who is Davros back in the 70's, and whilst I was delighted when the series returned under the leadership of Russell T Davis, I feel gradually it has deteriorated into a show which has lost its identity and has become far too bogged down in "soap opera" elements which seem to revolve around the companions either being obsessed or fancying The Doctor. Not only that, but the producers seem far to worried about making the companion the centre of attention.

Now, I for one rejoiced when I heard Steven Moffat was taking over as producer, particularly as he was involved in some of my favourite stories of the new series. However, after the debacle which was the story arc last season, revolving around some nonsense about Amy's baby being River Song etc, I think Moffat is too much of a fanboy and believes himself to be a far cleverer writer and producer than he actually is. To me, last season included some of the very worst Doctor Who stories - period. "A Good Man Goes to War", "Let's Kill Hitler" and "The Wedding of River Song" were the main culprits, all being written by Moffat and all being so full of cringe inducing comedy one-liners and a story arc so laughably inept in terms of its logic or believability that it almost, almost had me quitting the series I have loved since I was a child. I could just see Moffat sitting there writing these stories out with a smug "Aren't I so so clever" look on his face, believing that all his nudge-nudge, wink-wink in-jokes which he forces The Doctor, his companions and River Song to spout, would hide the fact that his great ambitious story arc actually did not hold up at all. It was pure garbage - sorry.

Unfortunately, Aslyum of The Daleks, whilst including some good ideas, particularly in the attempt to make the Daleks scary again (the scene where Rory is seen skulking around the asylum where all the old daleks are seemingly dead is priceless creepy Doctor Who), still falls apart due to some awful character interplay, or should I say, awful dialogue which has Amy being more annoying than ever to both The Doctor and Rory, and then more worryingly making Jenna-Louise Coleman also join in on the act by making immature quips at every given opportunity. I'm all for good interplay between characters, but sorry, Moffat still thinks he's writing Press Gang at times.

I will keep watching, as it's a show that is very dear to my heart and I live in hope that the next producer might actually have the balls to try and make Doctor Who the intelligent and truly unique show which it once was. We don't have to have all the companions fancying The Doctor; we don't have to have poorly structured story arcs; we don't have to pretend that immature quips and one liners qualifies as good writing; and we don't need the show wallowing in its own belief that we have to be reminded every five minutes about how "amazing" The Doctor really is.

I know, I know. It's very rare that I rant like this. And I've been wanting to write this down for quite some time, as I find it difficult to see one of the best Science Fiction television series in history being slowly stripped bare of all its "unique" qualities. Also, I realise that I appear to be in the minority, so hey, what do I know? Wink

I truly feel however, that Moffat needs to step down at the end of the season. We need a sense of class and maturity brought to the producers chair. Boy, do we need it.

Great to hear a different perspective LS!

Funny, we usually like and agree on most things, but I find for the most I differ in my opinion about the current run of Doctor Who. I find myself really enjoying Moffat's run with the Doctor.

Quote:"A Good Man Goes to War", "Let's Kill Hitler" and "The Wedding of River Song"

I LOVED these 3 episodes! Put Hitler in the cupboard! LOL!

But then again, I do not have a big history with the show and I am not as emotionally invested, as true Whovians.

When I read the Who Forums, I find many Who Fans echoing your opinion. So you are clearly not in the minority.

It is like when people start talking Star Trek, and begin to praise VOYAGER -- my inner Trekker becomes very upset, as I feel Voyager is easily the worst incarnation of Trek ever produced.

But in reality, it all about when you first encounter a beloved show and how invested you become. As my experience with Dr. Who was sporadic and not til late in my teen years, so I was never one of those classic kids hiding behind the couch.
I can't stand pure Whovians (and I AM one so I should know), they usually come across like entitled toffs who think they know better than the people running the show. They also suffer from a little thing John Nathan Turner would deem a "cheating memory" and overexaggerate just how "classy" and "high-quality" the old show was when..truth be told...it was actually worse at times (not always thankfully, but if you were to tell me The Toymaker, The Dominators, Nightmare of Eden, Horns of Nimon etc were examples of genius television, I'd laugh in your face) Moffat doesnt hide this either, as he once admited the old show was "shit" and that Peter Davison was the best Doctor because he went on to put more on his CV pedigree than any of the others.

Doctor Who was always a daft old nonsensical kids show. What's wrong with embracing the cheese and winking at the audience? Douglas Adams was doing that long before Steven Moffat, and nobody complains because Adams wrote one of THE greatest DW stories of all time ("City of Death"), same with Moffat, he's written some of the best DW stories of all time, yet just because he does things that certain people dislike, that's grounds for him to leave? You want him to go because you want CLASS in a show about a guy who offers Jelly Babies to all his enemies? You couldnt get high drama out of that with Tom Baker, why are you demanding it now?

Reallisticly, Moffat is doing a damn good job...if you don't agree, you're either one of two things

1. Joyless
2. Too old for this show

You're right, you ARE in a minority, so let the rest of us enjoy this wonderful show and go complain to the hilt on boring forums like Gallifrey Base where they make a career out of hating a show they claim to love.

white43 Wrote:And then she regenerates into River, with the same hair colour as Amy. So what? River Song IS Amy and Rory's daughter regardless of regenerations.

Nope, different personality (even with the same memories), rewritten DNA, everything that makes Melody Pond uniquely Amy and Rorys vanished with that first regeneration
Quote:Reallisticly, Moffat is doing a damn good job...if you don't agree, you're either one of two things

1. Joyless
2. Too old for this show

You're right, you ARE in a minority, so let the rest of us enjoy this wonderful show and go complain to the hilt on boring forums like Gallifrey Base where they make a career out of hating a show they claim to love.

.... uh Zarius, I think you may be a tad over reacting, which is easy to do when we are passionate about something...

Last Survivor is entitled to his opinion and he is free to share it with us.
You (and I) don't have to agree, but we do have to polite and open minded,
and not make this personal.

I love some runs of Tom Baker better than others. Some are brilliant, others I find completely daft.
Just with as with Moffatt (and RTD), I have loved most episodes,
but there have been some I thought were completely awful and poorly executed.
And you and I may disagree on these, but each of our opinions are valid and worth hearing.

As we say over in another long running sci-fi franchise, "Infinite diversity in infinite combinations".
Smile
Zarius Wrote:Reallisticly, Moffat is doing a damn good job...if you don't agree, you're either one of two things

1. Joyless
2. Too old for this show

You forgot Option 3.

Somebody who forms opinions based on his own experience.

You both fall in this category.
Yeah, I agree with Bionic Bob's praise for this episode and for the series. I think that in terms of the intricate plotting ("Blink," "Silence in the Library"), the characterization, the humor, the emotion ("Amy's Choice," "The Girl Who Waited"), there's no writer who's ever been better for Doctor Who than Steven Moffat, period.

That said, we are all entitled to think differently on the issue, and we shouldn't take someone's rant against a particular story personally. Smile
The BBC has just released another video prequel for "Asylum of the Daleks."

Don't ask me why they did another, separate video after giving us Pond Life all last week. Also don't ask me why this is being released after the fact, rather than teasing the upcoming "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship." I'm utterly baffled on both of those points.

But the video itself is neat and creepy in just the right ways.

Nice find Tom!

I totally missed that one. Good, creepy stuff!Smile
Very good and creepy indeed! And is it just me, or does that extreme closeup where we just see his eyes almost look like Eccleston? It probably isn't, but it would be a very cool tease if it were.