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(03-06-2020, 04:56 PM)addiesin Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-06-2020, 04:22 PM)Warbler Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-06-2020, 03:53 PM)addiesin Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-06-2020, 03:37 PM)Warbler Wrote: [ -> ]I hear Chris Chibnall is totally wrecking the history of the Doctor.   Sad

Sounds like a standard DW showrunner move. Are you planning on watching his episodes?

Nah, I am probably done with Doctor Who.

Then no harm done, even if what you heard is an opinion you'd agree with.

huh? Chibnall is totally wrecking the history of the Doctor and Doctor Who and you say "no harm done"???
(03-06-2020, 05:03 PM)Warbler Wrote: [ -> ]huh? Chibnall is totally wrecking the history of the Doctor and Doctor Who and you say "no harm done"???
That is a fraction of what I said, yes. Specifically the conclusion, but without the context of our short conversation. To reiterate my entire point:

I disagree with the claim personally, but if you're not watching anyway, then whatever the show does has no effect on you. No reason to be upset.
Just because I am not watching it doesn't mean I don't care and certainly doesn't mean "no harm done".
(03-06-2020, 05:44 PM)Warbler Wrote: [ -> ]Just because I am not watching it doesn't mean I don't care and certainly doesn't mean "no harm done".

I don't understand what you mean. You're upset about second-hand opinions of something you cared about but no longer care enough about to engage directly. Clarify if you want but that's what it looks like to me.
It is pretty certain 2nd-hand opinions from multiple sources.  (wikipedia episode descriptions for one, threads like this for another).  I am not watching anymore more because I can't stand what Chibnall has done to the Doctor and Doctor Who.  This doesn't mean I don't care and it doesn't mean "no harm done".
(03-06-2020, 06:05 PM)Warbler Wrote: [ -> ]It is pretty certain 2nd-hand opinions from multiple sources.  (wikipedia episode descriptions for one, threads like this for another).  I am not watching anymore more because I can't stand what Chibnall has done to the Doctor and Doctor Who.  This doesn't mean I don't care and it doesn't mean "no harm done".

Whatever you say, chief. Have a good night.
*[Image: giphy.gif]
I understand where Warb is coming from completely.  I gave up actually watching the new episodes this season around Fugitive of the Judoon, something I thought I would never do, but I'm still actively watching past episodes and have a ton of the old show to catch up on.  I've been a huge fan for over 8 years and don't anticipate dropping the show entirely just because of one writer.  Of course I want to know what the new show is doing just to keep tabs on it, and will eagerly return once Chibnall has left.

I am definitely upset that I just don't enjoy the show right now, after loving it for so long, wouldn't you?
(03-06-2020, 09:53 PM)Handman Wrote: [ -> ]I understand where Warb is coming from completely.  I gave up actually watching the new episodes this season around Fugitive of the Judoon, something I thought I would never do, but I'm still actively watching past episodes and have a ton of the old show to catch up on.  I've been a huge fan for over 8 years and don't anticipate dropping the show entirely just because of one writer.  Of course I want to know what the new show is doing just to keep tabs on it, and will eagerly return once Chibnall has left.

I am definitely upset that I just don't enjoy the show right now, after loving it for so long, wouldn't you?

Well sure, and maybe that's what Warb meant? But that's not what he said.

I'm sorry you're not enjoying it Handman, but I can respect that you came to your own opinion. I thought the Judoon episode was really fun, what about it made you not want to continue watching?
(03-07-2020, 12:30 AM)addiesin Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-06-2020, 09:53 PM)Handman Wrote: [ -> ]I understand where Warb is coming from completely.  I gave up actually watching the new episodes this season around Fugitive of the Judoon, something I thought I would never do, but I'm still actively watching past episodes and have a ton of the old show to catch up on.  I've been a huge fan for over 8 years and don't anticipate dropping the show entirely just because of one writer.  Of course I want to know what the new show is doing just to keep tabs on it, and will eagerly return once Chibnall has left.

I am definitely upset that I just don't enjoy the show right now, after loving it for so long, wouldn't you?

Well sure, and maybe that's what Warb meant? But that's not what he said.

I'm sorry you're not enjoying it Handman, but I can respect that you came to your own opinion. I thought the Judoon episode was really fun, what about it made you not want to continue watching?

Well, it was really just a culmination of not really liking Series 11, and not seeing much of an improvement in Series 12.  Dull characters, inconsistent Doctor morals always taken to be right or unquestionable (rather than called out for being inconsistent or outright wrong, like leaving the nonwhite Master to the Nazis or wiping Ada Lovelace's mind), just not really seeing any development of our characters, constant exposition and hamfisted, obvious lessons (as opposed to arriving at them naturally). 

All in all the show just doesn't seem to have anything to actually say thematically, and doesn't have any characters I gravitate to.  Add on to that the rumors I heard, which were pretty much confirmed by Judoon and from what I hear only moreso in the finale, and I figured it was time to stop watching something I wasn't really enjoying anymore anyway.  The show felt more like an obligation than something I looked forward to each week.

I love, love, love the 60s era of the show.  I loved watching Hartnell's Doctor grow as a character, from a man who just ran away and willing to bash a caveman's skull in to the reluctant hero we see in The War Machines. To Troughton's embrace of the mischievous do-gooder, not quite the epic hero we see by the time we reach the new show, but on his way.  The implications of the most recent series run completely contrary to what I love about the show, about an ordinary man who ran away and became great through his actions, the thought that anybody could be like the Doctor.  And Hartnell was the one who started it all, starting off in a clearly unheroic role and growing as a character into what we would come to associate with him for the next 50+ years.

To suggest that Hartnell was not the first incarnation of the Timelord known as the Doctor, running around in a blue police box doing heroic deeds (as the Ruth Doctor insinuates), completely undermines his entire character arc.  To suggest the Doctor is a super special chosen one completely undermines the fact that the Doctor has always been the unlikely hero, doing what he does not because of some destiny but because he believes it's right.  To suggest that none of these changes actually undermine any of that calls into question why the changes were even made in the first place.  It's just a sad state of affairs and I can't wait for it to be swept under the rug like the Morbius Doctors were for over 40 years, the half-human angle for 20, and all the countless other things, and we can just ignore it and go back to having fun adventures again.